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The Rules of Pacers Digest
Hello everyone,
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"
"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?"
In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.
A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.
Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.
Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.
Rule #1
Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:
"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"
"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"
"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"
"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"
"He/she is just delusional"
"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"
"I'm going to take a moment to point and
/ laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*""Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good?
"In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.
We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.
Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.
That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.
A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.
There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.
Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.
In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.
Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.
If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!
All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.
Rule #2
If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.
The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.
The right places to do so are:
A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.
B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.
If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.
Rule #3
If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.
When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:
A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.
B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.
To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!
Rule #4
Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.
Rule #5
When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.
An example:
If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star
Rule #6
We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.
The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.
Rule #7
Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.
It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).
We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).
However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.
Rule #8
We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.
Rule #9
Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.
Rule #10
We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.
Rule #11
Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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This space for rent. -
Re: Detroit coverage goes here.
http://www.freep.com/cgi-bin/forms/printerfriendly.pl
Pistons' reserves fail to keep pace with Indy
BY CHRIS NELSEN
FREE PRESS SPECIAL WRITER
May 14, 2005
INDIANAPOLIS -- Larry Brown's confidence in his bench seems to be dwindling with every game.
The Pistons' bench was virtually nonexistent again Friday night during Indiana's 79-74 victory in Game 3 of the best-of-seven Eastern Conference semifinals, which gave the Pacers a 2-1 series lead.
Brown, who used only seven players, got a total of six points, four rebounds and three assists from reserves Lindsey Hunter and Antonio McDyess.
On the other side, the Pacers used 11 different players and got 25 points, 19 rebounds and seven assists from their reserves.
McDyess, who finished with six points on 2-of-3 shooting, was upset by the notion that Detroit's bench has been underachieving lately. He said the reserves haven't been given the opportunity to produce. Hunter scored no points and missed all three of his field goals.
"I don't see us getting numerous amounts of minutes or shots, so it doesn't matter how the bench played tonight," McDyess said. "I don't want to hear nothing about the bench. It's not like we're going out there taking 10-plus shots or anything, so I don't want to hear that about the bench."
Brown defended his decision to stick with a seven-man rotation and not go deeper into his bench.
"I thought our guys played brilliantly tonight. When we were 18 down, we (made a comeback) with our players that were on the floor," he said. "They were the ones that got us back and that's who I stuck with."
Unlike last year -- when the Pistons' bench was a key factor in their NBA championship run -- Brown seems hesitant to go away from his starting five in crucial situations.
With the starters playing so many minutes, Indiana has been able to wear down the Pistons by going deep into its bench.
Hunter said being tired is the last thing that he or any other player is thinking about.
"We don't worry about that, we just have to win games," he said.
The one major advantage the Pacers had coming into this series was their ability to play 10 or 11 players consistently. Coach Rick Carlisle was again pleased with the way his bench responded to extended minutes.
"Tonight, I thought our bench gave us a big lift," Carlisle said. "For us, this is a collective effort. It will take all 12 players for us to beat this team. When you play a good team game, guys like Jeff Foster and Dale Davis can get involved."
Brown seems to have an opposite view about his rotation. The only time in this series he went beyond eight players was in Detroit's 96-81 victory in Game 1. In that game, 11 Pistons played.
In Game 2 on Wednesday, Brown used three bench players -- McDyess, Hunter and Ronald Dupree, who combined for 15 points and eight rebounds. Indiana's bench contributed 22 points and 24 rebounds, led by Foster's 14 points and 20 rebounds.
Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal said that it takes a deep bench to advance in the playoffs.
"In order to be a championship-caliber team, you need energy from your bench as much as your starters," said O'Neal, who finished Game 3 with just eight points on 2-of-11 shooting.
The Pistons' bench has been outscored, 70-38, through the first three games of the series.This space for rent. -
Re: Detroit coverage goes here.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/...ist-181468.htm
Pacers hold off sluggish Pistons
Detroit erases 17-point deficit but falls short at end.
By Chris McCosky / The Detroit News
INDIANAPOLIS - OK, this series is on now.
We have a Rasheed Wallace guarantee. We have both coaches snarling in their post-game comments. And we have one team, the Pistons, facing their first real crisis point of the season.
Reggie Miller scored six points in the final 81 seconds Friday to lift the Pacers to a grinding 79-74 victory, giving them a 2-1 lead in this best-of-seven Eastern Conference semifinals series.
"We are definitely going back to Detroit with this thing tied 2-2," Wallace said. "No question about it. We let them do what they wanted to do for the first three and a half quarters and Reggie was classic Reg - we can't take that away from them.
"But we are definitely going back to Detroit with this thing tied 2-2."
At issue, though, was how Miller was able to take control of the game. Pistons coach Larry Brown claimed he was allowed to push off and create space. Miller scored four straight points on free throws, on non-shooting calls that came away from the basket. The first one was on Richard Hamilton, and it fouled him out of the game with 1:21 left.
Then Brown claimed that Miller was allowed to push off on his game-clinching basket with 36 seconds left.
"You can just look at the film," Brown said. "He made a great shot, but you look at the film and you write it down. How did he get so open?
"I always say that great players make great plays. But when you make no field goals for the last seven or eight minutes (one in the last 6:26), tell me how they can still win just shooting free throws?"
When told of Brown's comments, Pacers coach Rick Carlisle got angry.
"I agree with what Larry said," he said, somewhat sarcastically. "The players should decide it. The referees didn't make a call whether it was a charge or a flop and Reggie made the shot. They had more free throws, we had more fouls and Jermaine O'Neal fouled out with 2:30 left.
"I don't want to hear it. Not with the season we had. They made a great comeback. We're hanging on for dear life and I've got to hear about officials? Come on. Not with the heart that both teams displayed tonight."
Miller, who finished with 17 points, 11 from the free-throw line, said the officials called it fairly for both him and Hamilton.
"There was some holding," he said. "I was called for it and Rip was called for it. The calls were correct. I don't think that they need to be called in playoff basketball, but if you call it on me, you have to call it on him."
The Pistons actually have bigger issues than the referee's whistle. Ben Wallace might have summed it up best.
"We have to do a lot less talking and a lot more playing," he said.
If the Pistons are going to make good on Rasheed Wallace's claim, they are going to have to play a heck of a lot better and a heck of a lot harder than they did for most of Game 3.
The Pistons' offense continued its malaise from Game 2. They had 11 points in the first quarter. They had 45 points and were shooting 31 percent after three quarters.
They continually tried to drive the ball instead of passing it. As a result, they turned the ball over 18 times and had to rely on outside jump shots. For the second game in a row, the Pistons were limited to 20 points in the paint - this against a Pacers team that had been outscored in the paint 318-194 in their first eight playoff games.
"It's frustrating, but it happens," said Chauncey Billups, who led the Pistons with 23 points. "They play team defense like we do."
Hamilton, who was 1-for-9 in the second half of Game 2, was 1-for-9 in the first half Friday. He finished with 16 points and five turnovers. Tayshaun Prince (nine points, five turnovers) didn't make a basket until the fourth quarter. Rasheed Wallace (13 points) had just six points through three quarters.
Clearly, this wasn't the Pistons' best performance.
"I think we wanted to win so badly, we wanted to play so well, that I think guys tried too hard and did too much on their own," Billups said. "We forgot about playing Detroit Pistons basketball until the end."
The Pistons finally got into a rhythm in the final quarter. They were down by 13, and led by Hamilton (nine points) and Prince (eight), came all the way back to take a 72-71 lead with 2:09 left.
The Pacers, meanwhile, went nearly five minutes without a field goal. On top of that, O'Neal, who had just eight points on 2-of-11 shooting), fouled out.
The Pistons' rally fell flat. Rasheed Wallace missed two open looks, Prince turned the ball over twice, and that set the stage for some vintage, and controversial, Reggie Miller.
The Pistons now must win here on Sunday to avoid going down 3-1. But from the sound of it, the Pacers feel like Game 4 is do or die for them.
"Sunday will be an unbelievable bloodbath," Miller said. "It will be the biggest game in our franchise's history. We know the kind of intensity they will come out with and we need to find a way to play a complete 48-minute game.
"Of course, the last time I said we were playing the most important game in our history, Boston beat us by 30 points. We better be ready."This space for rent.Comment
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PISTONS CORNER: GuaranSheed? O'Neal says, 'We'll be ready'
BY PERRY A. FARRELL and HELENE ST. JAMES
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITERS
May 14, 2005
INDIANAPOLIS -- Rasheed Wallace said after Friday night's Game 3 loss that the Pistons would win Game 4. The Pacers will be ready for him.
Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal just smiled when he was told of his good friend's guarantee that the Pistons will win Sunday. (Last season, Wallace promised and delivered on a Game 2 victory when the teams met in the Eastern Conference finals.)
"I guess that's what he's supposed to do," O'Neal said. "We'll be ready. I'm sure he's going to play a heck of a game, and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to come out and I'm not going to go 2-for-11."
O'Neal and Wallace both struggled from the field on Friday. O'Neal scored eight points, Wallace 13.
BLOODBATH: Reggie Miller said Game 4 would be "an unbelievable bloodbath."
"We know what kind of intensity they will come out with," Miller said.
The Pacers shot just 36.1 percent from the field in their 79-74 victory Friday, lower than they did in the first two games of the series. Indy made just four of 17 shots in the fourth quarter. "We were fortunate to win tonight," Miller said.
SPEAKING: Coach Larry Brown, during his postgame news conference, on a series of foul calls and non-calls, including on Miller's game-sealing shot, that went against the Pistons: "I'd rather have us lose it because we didn't make a shot rather than have someone invent things." The Pacers "get points without taking shots or making plays. ... Did you see them make a field goal in the last five or six minutes?"
CENTER COMMITTEE: Jeff Foster continued to shine, grabbing 12 rebounds, seven offensive, in Game 3 and making two free throws with 31.6 seconds remaining, extending Indiana's lead to five.
"He's a guy that brings so much energy," O'Neal said. "He is one of the most underrated rebounders and defenders in the league."
Foster had 20 rebounds in Game 2, 13 in Game 1.
Though his dominance would seem to earn him a spot as a starter, the Pacers prefer to have him come off their bench and to start Dale Davis at center.
"They bring two different dimensions to the game," Stephen Jackson said. "Jeff brings hard work that never stops; he's going to try to outwork his man and Dale is just a rough guy who is going to get in there and bang. I think they give us the best of both worlds inside and we're definitely going to need that."
Jackson said it's a credit to Pistons center Ben Wallace that the Pacers basically need to use two guys to defend him. "Ben is a workhorse," Jackson said. "He goes after every ball. We need at least two guys to be on him to try to wear him down, because he doesn't get tired."
SURPRISE: Chauncey Billups was named to the all-defensive second team on Thursday. That was a surprise to some of his teammates, and they let him hear about it during Friday's shoot-around before Game 3.
"They must have meant No. 10, but not 10 without the zero," heckled Rasheed Wallace. Billups wears the No. 1 jersey, while Lindsey Hunter, the Pistons' ball-hawk off the bench, wears No. 10.
"The way Jamaal Tinsley was breaking him down in the last game ..." Wallace continued.
Brown called Billups "The Blanket."
"Instead of Mr. Big Shot he's The Blanket," Brown said. "I don't think a lot of our guys get recognition. ... It comes from the coaches, which makes it cool."
Pacers coach Rick Carlisle, who helped recruit Billups to the Pistons in the summer of 2002 when he coached Detroit, was not surprised by the honor.
"It's well deserved," Carlisle said. "It just shows that as good as Chauncey has become, he continues to work on all facets of his game, and he really is a complete player. He really has the skills to play either guard position with equal proficiency."
Billups, who received eight first-team votes, said, "I'm happy to have made the team, but I just think it's really a team award. I really do. If I was on another team, I don't know if I would have gotten that award."This space for rent.Comment
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Tinsley gets into groove, pains Pistons
BY HELENE ST. JAMES
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER
May 14, 2005
INDIANAPOLIS -- Jamaal Tinsley so frustrated the Pistons on Friday night they eventually put a big man on him.
Late in the fourth quarter, with the Pistons desperate to avoid getting run out of Conseco Fieldhouse, Antonio McDyess guarded the Pacers point guard. But Tinsley's ability to penetrate the defense enabled the Pacers to take a 79-74 victory in Game 3 and a 2-1 lead in the second-round playoff series.
Tinsley's 16 points were second on the team to Reggie Miller's 17. The total was one short of Tinsley's career playoff high. He also made six assists and limited his turnovers to two. In the past two games, he has 18 assists and two turnovers.
Tinsley's scoring has been among the last facets of his game to come back as he returns from a long injury layoff. But he picks his spots. In the third quarter, he stole inside for a fast-break jump shot that restored a 14-point lead. In the fourth quarter, he slipped into the paint and uncurled a finger roll shot that put his team up by eight points.
"I thought Jamaal played really well," Pacers coach Rick Carlisle said. "He is giving us a big lift. I thought he was due for some outside shots, which he made."
Tinsley missed the last 2 1/2 months of the season as he went to doctor after doctor, hoping to rehabilitate his severely bruised left foot. By the time he returned May 3, in Game 5 of Indiana's first-round series with Boston, it was like he was back in training camp.
"I'm still not moving like I was before," Tinsley said. "But it's coming back."
His return helped Indiana squash Boston, and now, it's the reason Indiana is up a game on Detroit. Tinsley was not a factor in Game 1 against the Pistons, but that was because he picked up two fouls in the first minute-plus of the game and never was able to get into a rhythm.
His ability to do that had everything to do with why the Pacers evened the series in Game 2. Tinsley eludes Pistons defenders and dribbles inside, where he either puts up his own shot or threads the ball out to a teammate. When he's on the perimeter, the Pistons believe he's dangerous enough to have a big man like Ben Wallace, or Rasheed Wallace, or McDyess, step out to help Chauncey Billups, which enables the Pacers to get a 2-on-1 advantage in the paint.
Tinsley set the tone for the Pacers in the first quarter Friday, prodding them out of an early lull. He stole the ball from Richard Hamilton and soared down for a fast-break lay-up; then he drifted back on the next possession and sank a 26-foot jumper, his first three-pointer of the 2005 playoffs.
Tinsley made it 3-for-3 from the field when he sank a lay-up; his only blemish in the quarter was shooting 1-for-3 from the free throw line.
"I just came out, trying to be aggressive," Tinsley said. "I was just trying to put pressure on the defense."This space for rent.Comment
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NOT AGAIN: Game 4 victory is GuaranSheed, Wallace says
BY PERRY A. FARRELL
FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER
May 14, 2005
INDIANAPOLIS -- Rasheed Wallace says the losing will stop.
The Pacers are up, 2-1, in their second-round series with the Pistons after a 79-74 victory in Game 3 Friday night at Conseco Fieldhouse.
But Rasheed Wallace doesn't think Indiana will win Game 4.
"We're definitely going back to Detroit with this thing 2-2," Wallace said. "No question about it."
Rasheed guaranteed a victory after the Pistons lost Game 1 at Indiana in last year's conference finals. Detroit won Game 2 and went on to win the series.
But the Pacers have control of this year's second-round series after holding off a furious fourth-quarter rally by the Pistons.
Reggie Miller sealed the victory when he cleared out Lindsey Hunter and made a jumper with 10 seconds left to put the Pacers up five.
"You objective journalists go watch that play and tell me how he cleared the space to get that shot," said Pistons coach Larry Brown, who implied that Miller pushed off Hunter. "You watch the film and come back and tell me how he got that shot. It was a great shot and great players make great shots, but go watch the tape and tell me how he created that space. I've seen him do it over and over again."
Said Miller: "Lindsey, who is an unbelievable defender, was crowding me, so I tried to use my body against him and tried to create some space, which I did."
Said Hunter: "That was (expletive). I guess he made a good play. That's all I can say about it. I tried to guard him without fouling him, which is hard to do."
Before Miller's clutch shot, Tayshaun Prince threw the ball away while trying to hit Rasheed Wallace for a possible three-pointer. It was the Pistons' 17th turnover of the game.
After Miller's shot, Detroit committed its 18th turnover. It was the same as the previous one: Prince tried to hit Rasheed for a jumper, but the ball went out of bounds.
Prince and Rasheed struggled throughout. Prince scored nine points, Rasheed 13.
Chauncey Billups led the Pistons with 23 points. Richard Hamilton, laboring from a right calf injury, missed eight of his first nine shots and scored 16 points before fouling out in the fourth.
Miller led Indiana with 17 points. Jamaal Tinsley had 16.
The Pistons were unable to cope with dribble penetration from Tinsley and Fred Jones. And they couldn't keep Jeff Foster off the boards. For the third straight game, Foster grabbed double-digit rebounds, with 12.
"It's frustrating, but it happens," said Billups. "That team is a defensive-minded team like we are. Unfortunately, right now we're not making it tough enough for them."
The Pistons also shot just 31.3% through three quarters.
Indiana led 42-28 at the half and 58-45 after the third.
"We are spending too much time talking about it and not enough playing," said Ben Wallace, who had seven points and 14 rebounds. "We have no problems offensively. ... We have to come out and do a better job of executing and get some shots."
Prince hit his first field goal with eight minutes to play. About a minute later, he made another to cut the Pistons' deficit to nine, 64-55.
Antonio McDyess picked up a foul and a technical foul at the 6:36 mark, and the Pacers hit all three free throws to go back up 12.
Then, Detroit went on a 17-4 run, sparked by its defense and consecutive three-point plays from Hamilton and Billups.
After Jermaine O'Neal got two quick fouls and fouled out, Billups finished the run with two free throws to put the Pistons up, 72-71, with 2:09 left.
The Pistons missed their next three shots.
Meanwhile, Miller drew the sixth foul on Hamilton and a foul on Hunter. Miller made both sets of free throws to give the Pacers a 75-72 lead.
Foster hit two free throws after being fouled by Rasheed Wallace to make it 77-72. Rasheed responded with a jumper with 31.6 seconds left that pulled the Pistons within three before Miller sealed the victory.
"I thought our effort was terrific," Brown said. "We came back from 18 down and gave ourselves a chance to win."This space for rent.Comment
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Sorry, I read all the Detroit articles today (although the Detroit News does not print on Saturdays) , but did not post them because I did not think anyone was reading them.Comment
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The key will be the Pacers not letting the outcome of Game 4 get to their heads, no matter what happens.Comment
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One thing I see that I've always liked... Even when we detest them, I like being complimentary to the other team's players after a win. Sportsmanship aside, it's the opposite of bulletin-board material. The goal is to put them to sleep instead of wake them up. We've been doing that this whole series, and Jax's comments were great. "Ben's so great, Ben's the man, we can only hope to contain him."
Ron's good at this too. He'd absolutely destroy somebody (Pierce, LaBron, Carmello), score 20 to their 6, and then talk about how they're the greatest offensive player and it's all he can do (luck more than anything, really) to keep up, let alone play defense.
Obligatory Propellerheads quote: "Just keep talkin that. Just keep talkin that. We'll see."This space for rent.Comment
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You missed the best one. Possibly on purpose.
DREW SHARP: Pistons' performance not worthy of champs
May 14, 2005
BY DREW SHARP
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST
INDIANAPOLIS -- Sweat has suddenly replaced swagger, producing the first beads of uncertainty on a champion that thought it had all the answers.
The Pistons find themselves navigating unfamiliar terrain -- walking among the clueless.
They didn't know what to do or where to go, delivering a tepid overall performance Friday that was unworthy of the defending NBA champions.
So if you can't find a solution, look for blame.
Kleenex in hand, coach Larry Brown took the bush league path of openly questioning the officiating in the fourth quarter, hoping that his tears of injustice would deflect attention from a series stunningly slipping beyond the Pistons' control.
The refs didn't take this one, Larry.
Your guys blew it.
They merit no praise for snatching back a little respectability late in the game. The Pistons' 79-74 loss in Game 3 planted a seed of confidence in the Pacers that could blossom into an incredible upset if the Pistons aren't careful.
"I'm sure there are probably a lot of people who are writing us off right now," guard Lindsey Hunter said. "But they doubted us last year when we went down to New Jersey. It's just another obstacle, another challenge."
Rasheed Wallace, fulfilling his role as court jester for another Indiana series, tossed another guarantee into the bonfire. Perhaps he should consider tossing up a few more jumpers capable of hitting more than just the air of Conseco Fieldhouse.
The Pistons are now down 2-1 in a series that only six quarters earlier seemed headed for a quick and merciful resolution. They're down because they're not making the extra pass offensively or taking the extra stride emotionally.
"It was frustrating," guard Chauncey Billups said. "But it happens. They play team defense, like we do. And they're making it tough on our shots."
Brown unleashed his frustration on the striped shirts, wondering how the Pacers were rewarded despite making only one field goal in the game's final five minutes -- and that was the deathblow, when Reggie Miller shook free from Hunter and drilled a 21-footer with 10.7 seconds remaining.
Of course, Miller pushed off.
He has done that his entire career.
"Watch it on film," Brown said to reporters afterward. "Write it down and you tell me how he created the space cleared to make that shot. You look at that and tell me, you objective people. You tell me."
Pacers coach Rick Carlisle wanted to hear nothing about what somebody else might have taken from the Pistons. Not after what he went through this season, with the players he lost because of disciplinary action from the league as a result of the Palace brawl.
"You must be steadfast in your abstention from falsehood," Carlisle said. "Which means don't kid yourself. ... I don't want to hear it. Not after what we had to go through this season. And now we have to hear about how the officials blew the game. It's ridiculous to hear those things."
Carlisle was unusually passionate and, quite honestly, he was justified in his reaction.
And all Brown's tirade accomplished was further congealing a determination to make the Pistons pay for what has happened to the Pacers this season.
What was Brown thinking?
With each incendiary comment, the league cash register just added up a new total.
Brown can expect a bill from commissioner David Stern for his words.
"Coach is going to fight for his players," Hunter said, "but the bottom line is that the only ones we can blame for this is us. We never should have put ourselves in such an early hole like we did."
The Pistons wanted an ugly game, but this was physically deformed.
This resembled a "Three Stooges" short.
This was the Pistons-Pacers style we've come to loathe -- bodies banging, shots clanging, sloppiness masquerading as strategy.
There were alley-oops with added emphasis on the oops, the ball finding the back of the backboard before it could reach its intended target. There was a point midway through the second quarter when the Pistons had four more turnovers (10) than field goals made (six).
"Momentum was in our favor," said Miller. "They came back and took a late lead, but we still found a way to win the ballgame."
That was always the Pistons' M.O.
Save the excuses. Yeah, Rip Hamilton wasn't right. Pregame reports listed Hamilton's bruised calf at only 75% strength. If only it was that good. It clearly affected his shot, denying him the necessary spring on his jumper.
Where was Tayshaun Prince?
Where was Rasheed?
And when Brown looked down his bench, he found no solutions there.
"We never changed sides with the ball," he said. "I don't think any of our big guys ever touched the ball. We had to be a little more conscious of sharing the ball, but we got a little impatient."
And that's where the blame goes for a series suddenly spinning out of control.
Contact DREW SHARP at 313-223-4055 or dsharp@freepress.com.Comment
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I said this after the last game. I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, that even after losing 2 in a row the Pistons are shaking it off like it's no big thing. Chauncey's quote is a prime example. Didn't they say after the last game that it was on, they were awake, it wouldn't happen again?
If we come out strong on Sunday, we can really knock the wind out of their sails.This space for rent.Comment
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That's why I'm absoloutely convinced that the Pacers will win Game 4. I've slept on that prediction, and I'm even more convinced now.Originally posted by Anthem
The Pistons backs aren't against the wall, so there's no reason, in their mind, to come out with their best game. They're incredibly arrogant, but their that way no matter who the opponent is. It's not a disrespect aimed just at the Pacers.Comment
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Well, it just seems to me like Detroit doesn't have that drive or passion like they had last year. I don't see it.
Maybe they'll find it Sunday - the Pacers need to be prepared because that's a team playing at a level they haven't seen these playoffs. But even if they come out that way can they sustain it? Stuff like that's hard to turn on and off. You can make harder cuts. You can eliminate soft passes - but can you just say, "Today I'm gonna play balls-out like I haven't done in a month."? I'm not so sure you can.
They'll come out hard, with a lot of force. If they do that and after 15 minutes they look at the scoreboard and the Pacers are still in the game, what then? I don't know for sure but my sense is that'll hurt 'em.
And here's the other thing - the Pistons are playing catch-up this year. Last year it was the opposite. They haven't been in that position in a while. We'll see how they respond. Anyway, I don't see a game 4 loss as a death-knell for Indy though it would hurt. But I've thought all along the Pacers would need to win 2 road games to take the series. But I'm willing to be pleasantly suprised.The poster formerly known as RimfireComment
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My favorite part was when Rasheed pointed out how JT kept breaking down Billups."They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.
"'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."Comment
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Tsk Tsk. Of course we read them. Your astute posting of them opens up the NBA world to us. You are the play-by-play guy. Just like when Peck doesn't post odd thoughts. He's the color guy. Without either of you what kind of broadcast would it be!Originally posted by UnclebuckThe best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.Comment
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