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Thread: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    I don't really agree with the reasoning that we should keep CJ Miles (and Teague) just because their cap holds are relatively cheap this year. Keep them if you think there's a long term place for them on the team, sure, but not just because of cap holds which really only affect this year only.

    Put it this way: I'd rather have one really expensive guy who fits the team's needs perfectly, than 2 relatively cheap (in terms of cap space) guys who are flawed.

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    All I know is that the team is flawed. Whatever we need to do to rectify it being flawed I am for. I prefer obviously a stronger/longer more defensive oriented brand of basketball however I know that this is not the only way to win. If Bird can sign shooters and quick smaller defenders who can also rebound at least competently then whatever it takes IMO.


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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I'm only talking about his caphold.

    To replace CJ will cost more next year.
    I find myself wondering if GRIII can replace CJ? Of course then we would need to replace GR's spot on the roster, but perhaps at less cost in total. Regardless, I think this is going to be an important year for Robinson to work hard and show up.

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    I don't really agree with the reasoning that we should keep CJ Miles (and Teague) just because their cap holds are relatively cheap this year. Keep them if you think there's a long term place for them on the team, sure, but not just because of cap holds which really only affect this year only.

    Put it this way: I'd rather have one really expensive guy who fits the team's needs perfectly, than 2 relatively cheap (in terms of cap space) guys who are flawed.
    I like Teague and I think he can be part of a good team here. That's why I say unless you go after Lowry or CP3, keeping Teague makes sense.

    CJ, though, IMO, doesn't play a big enough role to keep that cap hold. I don't view him as the guy we need, and I'd rather shed that salary and look elsewhere for a bigger impact player. Whether or not that $9 is directly part of signing Hayward, or the money comes from shedding Monta/Al, I don't want CJ on this team going forward. So the last thing I want is for a player who I don't view as a "core" player, or even an important one, to get in the way of making trades or signings, which is why I say renounce him and clear that money.
    It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If Bird can sign.................
    Old habits die hard?

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I'm only talking about his caphold.

    To replace CJ will cost more next year.
    Whatever it is.... I have ZERO preference to keep CJ. So, if renouncing his Cap Hold allows to pursue other FA Players.....I'd do it.
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  12. #257
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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    I like Teague and I think he can be part of a good team here. That's why I say unless you go after Lowry or CP3, keeping Teague makes sense.

    CJ, though, IMO, doesn't play a big enough role to keep that cap hold. I don't view him as the guy we need, and I'd rather shed that salary and look elsewhere for a bigger impact player. Whether or not that $9 is directly part of signing Hayward, or the money comes from shedding Monta/Al, I don't want CJ on this team going forward. So the last thing I want is for a player who I don't view as a "core" player, or even an important one, to get in the way of making trades or signings, which is why I say renounce him and clear that money.
    CJ will get $10-15 million per year. He is an 8th, 9th or 10th man on a contender. We can't afford to pay our 8th, 9th or 10th man $10-15 million a year.

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    IF the possibility exists of signing Gordon Hayward, you have to use the resources you have at your disposal to fill out the rest of the roster. Let's say everything breaks right and you get Hayward ($25M per) and PG ($30M per) along with the other guys locked in to contracts on this roster in order to avoid backsliding you have to pony up to keep Teague ($12M cap hold, Bird rights, probably take somewhere in the neighborhood of $20M to sign) and CJ ($9.4 hold, probably get in the range of $12-14 per). Myles, Thad, PG, Hayward, Teague, Seraphin, Lavoy/Hans (or 1st), CJ, GRIII, Lance is a pretty formidable lineup. Gotta think you're talking 2nd or 3rd in the East.

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew46229 View Post
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    IF the possibility exists of signing Gordon Hayward, you have to use the resources you have at your disposal to fill out the rest of the roster. Let's say everything breaks right and you get Hayward ($25M per) and PG ($30M per) along with the other guys locked in to contracts on this roster in order to avoid backsliding you have to pony up to keep Teague ($12M cap hold, Bird rights, probably take somewhere in the neighborhood of $20M to sign) and CJ ($9.4 hold, probably get in the range of $12-14 per). Myles, Thad, PG, Hayward, Teague, Seraphin, Lavoy/Hans (or 1st), CJ, GRIII, Lance is a pretty formidable lineup. Gotta think you're talking 2nd or 3rd in the East.
    Teague is a good point guard but not good enough to pony up $20 mil. I know all these other teams are paying players like Crabbe 18 mil but I would only pay max 15 or 16 for Teague. Id rather dump $12 mil on Mills.


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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by KingGeorge_24 View Post
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    Teague is a good point guard but not good enough to pony up $20 mil. I know all these other teams are paying players like Crabbe 18 mil but I would only pay max 15 or 16 for Teague. Id rather dump $12 mil on Mills.

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    I am amazed by the aversion to re-signing Teague. Whatever his price tag will be....as long as it's the going Market Rate and we are not overpaying compared to his Free Agent Market value....I have no problem paying whatever price he is going to get ( even if it's $22+ mil ). He's better than any legit Starting Quality PG that we can get in the FA Market.....otherwise we are looking at pursuing more Low End Starting Quality PGs that aren't really PGs or KP has decided to start Lance at the Starting PG ( which I don't want and would prefer that Lance comes off the bench as the 1st Guard or 6th Man ).
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    Default Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I am amazed by the aversion to re-signing Teague. Whatever his price tag will be....as long as it's the going Market Rate and we are not overpaying compared to his Free Agent Market value....I have no problem paying whatever price he is going to get ( even if it's $22+ mil ). He's better than any legit Starting Quality PG that we can get in the FA Market.....otherwise we are looking at pursuing more Low End Starting Quality PGs that aren't really PGs or KP has decided to start Lance at the Starting PG ( which I don't want and would prefer that Lance comes off the bench as the 1st Guard or 6th Man ).
    Teague showed far from his best, because like every other "semi-star", he has fundamental weaknesses to his game alongside strong strengths.

    He needs to be either in a strong defensive system or alongside a high level perimeter defender in order to cover his deficiencies in lateral movement and size. He was regularly exposed on the defensive side of the ball, and it also took him significant effort to establish himself as a floor general given all of the ball dominant players we had on the floor at times.

    Given the right fit, he could be a strong starter. Not sure the fit will be there, which is why Pritchard is already jockeying publicly when it comes to re-signing him. Unless it's a bargain, or unless they find a FA/trade to complement him, he won't be worth here what the market will bear for someone with his stats and pedigree.

    EDIT: He would make an outstanding starter in San Antonio. Lots of unselfish players who are accustomed to ball movement and Tony Parker. Also nice fit next to Green, and J. Simmons. That's the place to watch.


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    Last edited by docpaul; 05-15-2017 at 06:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Teague showed far from his best, because like every other "semi-star", he has fundamental weaknesses to his game alongside strong strengths.

    He needs to be either in a strong defensive system or alongside a high level perimeter defender in order to cover his deficiencies in lateral movement and size. He was regularly exposed on the defensive side of the ball, and it also took him significant effort to establish himself as a floor general given all of the ball dominant players we had on the floor at times.

    Given the right fit, he could be a strong starter. Not sure the fit will be there, which is why Pritchard is already jockeying publicly when it comes to re-signing him. Unless it's a bargain, or unless they find a FA/trade to complement him, he won't be worth here what the market will bear for someone with his stats and pedigree.

    EDIT: He would make an outstanding starter in San Antonio. Lots of unselfish players who are accustomed to ball movement and Tony Parker. Also nice fit next to Green, and J. Simmons. That's the place to watch.

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    What other options do we have for a new Starting PG?

    The only options I can come up with are:

    A ) Pursing a FA PG - If we renounce Teague and CJ......how far below the Salary Cap will we be? Are we talking about having enough to pursue 1 Near MAX FA signing? or Are we relegated to signing some low tier PG that really isn't a Starting PG ( think Patty Mills or Shaun Livingston )?
    B ) Trade for one - What assets do we have that we are willing to part with to get a Starting Quality PG?
    C ) Let Lance run the show as the Starting PG - Sorry, I would prefer for Lance to come off the bench doing what he did in the few games we had him play.
    D ) ????? what am I missing here?

    I can understand why many don't want to pay him $20 to 24+ mil a year.....but I don't see any viable options that I prefer. Re-signing Teague would also allow us to use the Cap Space ( that would go to YET ANOTHER Starting PG ) to pursue other FAs while going over the Salary cap to re-sign him.

    Now that we have a new guy running the show that doesn't have some fixation with Combo-Guards.....I'd hope that we can finally settle on an ACTUAL legit Startinq Quality PG. I said it before.....I am TIRED of playing Russian Roulette with pseudo Guards that try to do an impression of playing the PG spot.

    IMHO....Teague isn't the best option at Starting PG.....but he maybe the best one that we can get while allowing us to improve the overall quality of the roster. His defense is suspect...I FULLY admit.....but he averaged 15ppg / 7 apg on 32 mpg. Pair him with a quality 3D Starting Guard and a Coach that actually has some semblance of a defensive scheme and we can minimize his defensive liabilities. It's not perfect...but far from being underwhelming.

    If PG13 is here to stay with a SUPER MAX extension...I want to use every every penny that we can use before hitting the LT ceiling. We can do that with re-signing Teague without impacting the Salary Cap..... we can't do that by letting him go and filling our roster with new FAs who can only be signed by using up the limited Salary Cap Space that we have.
    Last edited by CableKC; 05-15-2017 at 07:27 PM.
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  22. #263
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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    I think Cory Joseph is pretty damn good and Toronto should really consider letting Lowry walk

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Old habits die hard?
    Well hell....


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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Would anyone consider Shaun Livingston as our starting PG. He proved to be pretty durable and reliable
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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I think Cory Joseph is pretty damn good and Toronto should really consider letting Lowry walk

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    Raptors should absolutely let Lowry walk. They got Joseph and also Delon Wright who I think can be a decent player. Lowry isn't worth 25+ million to stay as a mediocre playoff team that has no chance of beating LeBron.

    And also Lowry is awful in playoffs.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Whatever it is.... I have ZERO preference to keep CJ. So, if renouncing his Cap Hold allows to pursue other FA Players.....I'd do it.
    Say you get rid of Monta and Al and you get Hayward, why would you then get rid of CJ Miles? You have to fill out your bench with shooters and you won't get a better player for CJ caphold. Let alone 2 players!

    If you're keeping PG, next year is very important. Landing a big FA is reason to keep CJ not let him go.

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    Default Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    What other options do we have for a new Starting PG?

    The only options I can come up with are:

    A ) Pursing a FA PG - If we renounce Teague and CJ......how far below the Salary Cap will we be? Are we talking about having enough to pursue 1 Near MAX FA signing? or Are we relegated to signing some low tier PG that really isn't a Starting PG ( think Patty Mills or Shaun Livingston )?
    B ) Trade for one - What assets do we have that we are willing to part with to get a Starting Quality PG?
    C ) Let Lance run the show as the Starting PG - Sorry, I would prefer for Lance to come off the bench doing what he did in the few games we had him play.
    D ) ????? what am I missing here?

    I can understand why many don't want to pay him $20 to 24+ mil a year.....but I don't see any viable options that I prefer. Re-signing Teague would also allow us to use the Cap Space ( that would go to YET ANOTHER Starting PG ) to pursue other FAs while going over the Salary cap to re-sign him.

    Now that we have a new guy running the show that doesn't have some fixation with Combo-Guards.....I'd hope that we can finally settle on an ACTUAL legit Startinq Quality PG. I said it before.....I am TIRED of playing Russian Roulette with pseudo Guards that try to do an impression of playing the PG spot.

    IMHO....Teague isn't the best option at Starting PG.....but he maybe the best one that we can get while allowing us to improve the overall quality of the roster. His defense is suspect...I FULLY admit.....but he averaged 15ppg / 7 apg on 32 mpg. Pair him with a quality 3D Starting Guard and a Coach that actually has some semblance of a defensive scheme and we can minimize his defensive liabilities. It's not perfect...but far from being underwhelming.

    If PG13 is here to stay with a SUPER MAX extension...I want to use every every penny that we can use before hitting the LT ceiling. We can do that with re-signing Teague without impacting the Salary Cap..... we can't do that by letting him go and filling our roster with new FAs who can only be signed by using up the limited Salary Cap Space that we have.
    I'm personally not saying to avoid resigning him. I'm saying that he's far from a slam dunk foundation player and given that the future strategy around PG and the team is in the air, many people are hesitant to overpay unless he fits like a true puzzle piece into the overall team strategy.

    Having him locked in for four years without a complementary backcourt player is staring intently at mediocrity for the next 4-5 years.

    They will hold on signing him until they understand what other pieces they get. That's the right strategy, IMO.

    If he was a rookie or on a contract like Monta's, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Most would gladly plug him into the starting lineup and figure out who to complement him with.

    All of my comments are with the undercurrent of belief that we are teetering very close to a full on rebuild.

    For example, George Hill has an awakening and suddenly wants to come back to Indy to close out his career on a 3 year deal? Then by all means, sign Teague and don't look back!


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    Last edited by docpaul; 05-15-2017 at 08:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    The only way you dump Teague is if a star point guard suddenly shakes loose elsewhere. Portland won't trade Dame, but will the Wizards consider dealing Wall if they lose tonight? Probably not but, you never know.

    OKC could also think about moving Westbrook. But those are all long shots. You could also acquire a shooting guard with handle like a CJ McCollum and just play him at point guard.

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Say you get rid of Monta and Al and you get Hayward, why would you then get rid of CJ Miles? You have to fill out your bench with shooters and you won't get a better player for CJ caphold. Let alone 2 players!

    If you're keeping PG, next year is very important. Landing a big FA is reason to keep CJ not let him go.
    Am I missing something? I thought Miles had a player option on his contract?


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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Am I missing something? I thought Miles had a player option on his contract?
    The thought is, he may test being a FA if he thinks he can get more money.

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    The only way you dump Teague is if a star point guard suddenly shakes loose elsewhere. Portland won't trade Dame, but will the Wizards consider dealing Wall if they lose tonight? Probably not but, you never know.

    OKC could also think about moving Westbrook. But those are all long shots. You could also acquire a shooting guard with handle like a CJ McCollum and just play him at point guard.
    Literally NONE of those things are going to happen. Also I'm on the other end of the spectrum.

    There are so many good PGs out there, theres no reason to overpay a mid tier guy Unless:

    1. He fits PERFECTLY with the roster
    2. He's young enough to have some untapped potential
    3. You're in a spot to contend RIGHT now.

    Now with option 3, I feel that the proof has to already be in the pudding that a the guy would be a main cog on said team, thus warranting not being replaced.

    Atlanta played it brilliantly. They had a few decent to very good runs with Teague at the helm. But they weren't going anywhere with him so instead of eventually overpaying him, they traded him for a draft pick.

    Luckily for them, they had a PG waiting in the wings and their production at the position has stayed about the same give or take, while gaining a very good asset for cheap for the best several years.

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  37. #273
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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Am I missing something? I thought Miles had a player option on his contract?
    He does, but we can go into lux to re-sign him and only his hold counts against the cap.

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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Literally NONE of those things are going to happen. Also I'm on the other end of the spectrum.

    There are so many good PGs out there, theres no reason to overpay a mid tier guy Unless:

    1. He fits PERFECTLY with the roster
    2. He's young enough to have some untapped potential
    3. You're in a spot to contend RIGHT now.

    Now with option 3, I feel that the proof has to already be in the pudding that a the guy would be a main cog on said team, thus warranting not being replaced.

    Atlanta played it brilliantly. They had a few decent to very good runs with Teague at the helm. But they weren't going anywhere with him so instead of eventually overpaying him, they traded him for a draft pick.

    Luckily for them, they had a PG waiting in the wings and their production at the position has stayed about the same give or take, while gaining a very good asset for cheap for the best several years.
    I think everyone agrees you only keep Teague if you're a contender. Heck, that's the only way you keep PG.

  39. #275
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    Default Re: Kevin Pritchard ready to use aggressive approach on Indiana Pacers' revamp

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Literally NONE of those things are going to happen. Also I'm on the other end of the spectrum.

    There are so many good PGs out there, theres no reason to overpay a mid tier guy Unless:

    1. He fits PERFECTLY with the roster
    2. He's young enough to have some untapped potential
    3. You're in a spot to contend RIGHT now.

    Now with option 3, I feel that the proof has to already be in the pudding that a the guy would be a main cog on said team, thus warranting not being replaced.

    Atlanta played it brilliantly. They had a few decent to very good runs with Teague at the helm. But they weren't going anywhere with him so instead of eventually overpaying him, they traded him for a draft pick.

    Luckily for them, they had a PG waiting in the wings and their production at the position has stayed about the same give or take, while gaining a very good asset for cheap for the best several years.


    And we, don't have a point guard waiting in the wings. So you need to keep Teague, especially since he's from Indy. Lowry is probably better than Jeff from an offense/scoring point of view. But his age, injury history, and constant failure to show up in the post-season make him a very risky replacement.

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