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Thread: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Ok, let's debunk a myth right now. The local press is playing it up because it makes a good story. The Detroit fans are thrilled to hear it bacause they feel it gives thier team more fire & energy.

    Rasheed Wallace gave a guarantee, he did not issue one.

    There is a huge huge differance between what he said this year & the way he said it compared to last seasons.

    In the locker room the reporter from WTHR (local NBC affiliate for those viewing from out of town) said to Rasheed, is it time for another guarantee.

    To which Rasheed said "Oh, we're definitely going back to Detroit with this thing 2-2, no question about it"

    Now while that is a guarantee it is not the same thing as last season where Rasheed set in the locker room mutting to himself and anybody who would listen to him the following over & over.

    "All I'm saying is (I'm) guaranteeing Game 2. That's all I'm saying. They will not win Game 2. You heard that from me. You all print whatever you all want. You put it front page, back page, middle of the page: They will not win Game 2,"

    You have to love the local press who already has a story up & running about this in today's star. http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...TS04/505140469

    I take it for just a player stating his team is going to win & there better not be a player in our locker room who doesn't think we're going to win either.

    On to the game.

    There was electricity in the air in both the form of lightning & Pacersmania because that crowd was ready from the time they opened up the doors to the fieldhouse.

    Right off the bat DJ Paul B gave a little pre-game message to all of us that got people on thier feet. I'll paraphrase him here & maybe he can remember word for word what he said but basically it was just a quick little note that people didn't think the Pacers should be here right now. It seemed to unify the crowd & really set the tone.

    It's kind of already been covered here but we jumped on them good, let up off of the peddle & then managed to close it out.

    Neither team has played a good full 48 min. game yet & I'm now beginning to wonder if we will ever see one. We may just have to accept (fans of both teams) that each of these teams are good defensively & let's face it, they know each other. Hamilton, Prince & R. Wallace missed some wide open shots & actually Hamilton missed a couple that I just was dumbfounded he missed.

    Was it defense? Or was it just bad luck for them? At this point who cares, they didn't hit & we won. Good for us. But it's just a one home game win. They won thier first game at home to so let's not go crazy with talking about the Heat or anything. Oh & for the record I wanted to strangle whoever started the Detroit sucks chant. Man with 8 min. to go in a game you never want to give any team any kind of fuel.

    As a Pacers fan I'm concerned because Prince, Hamilton & R. Wallace are not going to be that quiet again. They aren't going to miss wide open gimme's next time.

    If I was a Piston fan I would be concerened that Jermaine, Stephen & Reggie have yet to shoot good from the floor. For every wide open shot Hamilton missed Jermaine missed three. I would be d@mn concerned that they have yet to solve the Jeff Foster problem (BTW I have a theory on this I'll share later) & the fact that they cannot let our bench produce.

    But it's still a long long series so we just move on to game 5 next.

    Let's look at our team.

    Yes, Reggie Miller hit the big shot. Yes, Jamaal Tinsely set the tone. Yes, Jeff Foster once again was a human dynamo.

    But the person that everybody is overlooking in last nights game was Anthony Johnson. When Jamaal went to the bench A.J. brought a totally differant look to the floor & presented Detroit with a totally differant problem. He ran the team very very well & once again hit some huge shots that bailed the team out of some trouble & played solid defense all during the game. When J.T. went to the bench we didn't lose a thing. That has to be frustrating for Brown.

    *Side note for our Piston fans* I'm really confused as to why Larry doesn't go more with Carlos Arroyo to help go against J.T. He takes it right at Jamaal & seemed to have some success in game 1. None of my business really just curious. *end side note*

    Jeff Foster. Here is my theory & I may be wrong but him coming off of the bench this year is our version of Corliss Williamson except that Jeff is better. In other words he is this energy ball that the starters on Detroit don't prepare for because they focus on J.O. & Dale & then when Jeff comes in he is just abusing them. This is the same Foster that was totally useless vs. the Pistons last season. What is he doing differantly this year? He is playing a little more physical right now but other than that nothing really differant from last year. But the huge differance is that he is the first big man off of the bench & he just hits the ground running.

    *another side note to our Piston fans* Why isn't Larry countering with Eldon Campbell for a few min. vs. Jeff? Foster has problems with big physical players who go in the post & I've seen Eldon just abuse Jeff in the past. Jeff would kill him with his speed but I assume that you would keep Ben or Sheed in to counter that. Again, none of my business. I'm just curious. *end side note*

    Would it be wrong of me to say that Dale Davis block at the end of the game was huge? I know I know I'm looking for something good to say about Dale because well.... I just always have to say something good about Dale. But it's been a tough series for Dale because I have never EVER EVER seen Dale pick up so many touch fouls in my life. It is not in Dale's nature to flop & I'm just certain that he expects Ben to go toe to toe with him but he is totally taken off guard by Ben's acting. BTW, Ben should be carefull about whipping his head back & forth like that because he might cause a neck strain.

    Reggie Miller. Another big shot at another big time. What more can you say. One thing I would like to say is that if he is going to shoot the ball only 11 times then I certainly do not want 7 of them being from the 3 point line particularly if he is going to hit 0 of them. I thought he rushed several 3 point shots. But he made up for it by getting to the line 12 times hitting 11 of them & most of them in the 4th when it counted. I'd like to see him get into the lane a little more next game.

    Jamaal. They have no answer for him. If his shot is dropping or if he can get into the lane he is just a handfull for the Pistons. It always just cracks me up when every team abandons any kind of press on Jamaal because it is just useless to do it. Here is the funny thing. This was (I think) only the 5th game Jamaal has been back. The scary thing for the Pistons should be this, he's just starting to get into shape. Again the whole Arroyo thing perplexes me because he takes it at Jamaal & makes him work, but what do I know.

    Jermaine. Rest up big fella. You didn't hit your shots but you played tough in the paint & his shot blocking is impacting the way that Detroit is playing. I think that Sheed will have a big game 4 but I also think that Jermaine will answer the challenge. Yeah, he fouled out but he fouled out playing defense & I'll live with that every day.

    Stephen Jackson. The man is just screwed. He goes to the rack & has people hanging off of him like leeches & he can't get a call. Thank God he can hit a few of those wild layups. I loved the job he did on Hamilton in the first half & then when they switched him back to Prince I notice that Rip started to get off a little more. Reggie & Jax were rotating in the first half. Jax has yet to have a good game in this series either. But like I said, it may just be that some of these guys aren't going to have a good game because the other team is keying in on them.

    Fred & James Jones. good solid work off of the bench. Fred taking it to the hole & then hitting a big three was great but solid defense was on the plate for both of these guys.

    Austin, Scot & Eddie. Thank each of you for being real professionals. For cheering the team when your not in. For being ready when your name is called. I've seen lots of players over the years who were the 10th, 11th & 12th man who either just set there like bumps on logs or grumbled in the press. None of these guys are doing this & it's good for the team.

    I look forward to Sunday's game.

    Am I worried? Yes.

    Am I confident? Yes.

    Am I confused? Yes.

    Detroit will be ready, but then again so will we. I think it will probably a knock down drag out affair.

    We need reports from the Dale Davis after party!!!!!!!


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Great recap as usual.

    I CANNOT believe you didn't mention Dale's sweet baseline jumper!

    I'm also perplexed on LB's refusal to go into his bench.

    To you Jax point, I mentioned on Rats that in the last 2 series, Jax has gone one-on-three to the hole like 5 times and has yet to get a call. Unfreaking believable that a.) they give him no love and b.) he usually makes the layup.

    The only thing missing last night was a bolt of lightning from the storm outside coming in a charcoal-ing Walton before a cheering Conseco crowd. I'm sure PaulB would've found the appropriate theme music for that.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    This is the same Foster that was totally useless vs. the Pistons last season. What is he doing differantly this year? He is playing a little more physical right now but other than that nothing really differant from last year. But the huge differance is that he is the first big man off of the bench & he just hits the ground running.

    Stephen Jackson. The man is just screwed. He goes to the rack & has people hanging off of him like leeches & he can't get a call. Thank God he can hit a few of those wild layups. I loved the job he did on Hamilton in the first half & then when they switched him back to Prince I notice that Rip started to get off a little more. Reggie & Jax were rotating in the first half. Jax has yet to have a good game in this series either. But like I said, it may just be that some of these guys aren't going to have a good game because the other team is keying in on them.
    Peck, as I'm sure you would guess, I totally disagree with your assessment that Jeff was and I'll use your words, "totally useless" in last years series. Over the past several days I've gone back and watched the series from last year in an effort to gain some insight into this years series. Jeff was very effective in the first 3 games, he defended Sheed well, and he played his game. I think Jeff is playing better this season, but I'll say this again Jeff was not taken out of the lineup because he was struggling. The Pacers team specifically the backcourt could not hit a shot and Tinsley could not create anything, so the coaching staff had to "panic" and use Croshere.

    But believe me the Pacers gave up a lot in the defense and rebounding department when they made that move.

    Jax defense has been excellent in this sweries, he has done a great job. And something else that I can't quite figure out, Jax is able to get his shot off easier than Ron could last season.

    But what I see different from last seasons series is the Pistons shotblocking is not causing nearly the problems that it did last year. I suppose I attribute that to better outside shooting, better offense by the pacers and the fact that Tinsley is causing the Pistons so much trouble.

    One word of caution, Tinsley had a big heating pad on his right shoulder every time he was on the bench last night, so he seems to be breaking down physically already.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    When I saw that monster block by Dale, I thought of you, Peck.
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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    And something else that I can't quite figure out, Jax is able to get his shot off easier than Ron could last season.
    It's his length. He's much longer than Ron, and an inch taller too. I think that's what is allowing him to get to the hoop like that, not to mention guard Prince decently.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    It's his length. He's much longer than Ron, and an inch taller too. I think that's what is allowing him to get to the hoop like that, not to mention guard Prince decently.
    Yup. And he's still quick enough to play SG. He has been and will be a great pickup for the Pacers. With Ron back at SF next year, the two of them will form what's probably the best two-way swing tandem in the league. Jermaine's also one of the best two-way players in the league, and Tinsley and Dale aren't exactly chopped liver.

    I really really like this team.
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Hicks that is a good point.

    I think Jackson is underrated by most Pacers fans. Yes he makes mistakes and yes he gets too emotional. But when he goes out of the lineup the team suffers, he provides consistant energy and defense that is very underrated. Yes he's streaky, but he is a very good NBA player

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Peck, I agree that Larry Brown has to go to his bench more. O'Neal had 34 minutes last night, Foster 31, and Dale 25. Ben Wallace had 45 minutes and Rasheed 36. That gives a guy like Foster, who's a high energy player to begin with, a bit extra oomph in hustling for those boards. The longer the series goes, the longer the minute deficit will be for the Pistons starters.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Hicks that is a good point.

    I think Jackson is underrated by most Pacers fans. Yes he makes mistakes and yes he gets too emotional. But when he goes out of the lineup the team suffers, he provides consistant energy and defense that is very underrated. Yes he's streaky, but he is a very good NBA player
    Exactly. Jackson's mistakes, when he makes them, are pretty gruesome, the kind that make your stomach turn and cringe, whether it be a dumb pass or a technical.

    I think this (unfairly) makes many fans think a lot less of Steve. He is a pretty skilled all-around player, but what I really love is how he uses his length to play defense, and his solid rebounding for a SG. I will gladly swallow a few dumb mistakes, and the occasional off-shooting night for this guy.
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    How about if I make this concession. I've been very hard on Steve but I also recognize that he is basically playing out of position. I'll shut up until I've seen him play the SG for a bit (at least ahalf year)...unless he goes ape *** again...I won't forgive that. But his skills, I'll shut-up about. Fair enough?
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    It's his length. He's much longer than Ron, and an inch taller too. I think that's what is allowing him to get to the hoop like that, not to mention guard Prince decently.
    Also, the speed is the difference. When Jax attacks the rim, he has a quicker step, slashing into the lane; for Ron, he took his time and tried to overpower Prince. That allowed Prince to setup and ready for the block.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    The biggest difference between this year and last year is that we are getting backcourt scoring. Last year our backcourt was horrible in the series. Also JT and our other slashers have been able to get into the lane. Which makes it possible to get O rebounds.

    Arroyo isn't Brown's kind of player. I wonder how different the series would have been if Joe found a way to keep Mike James.

    I have been impressed that Jackson has been able to go to the hoop with Prince on him. I look forward to seeing SJax get going this series. Because Prince isn't stopping him he just hasn't hit his zone.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    The most important thing about Jackson is that he is good on both ends of the court. The only other players that can say that are Tins (sometimes) and JO. When he goes out we suffer at one end or the other (usually both).

    It's too bad that he couldn't have spent the season coming off the bench as planned. He would have wreaked HAVOC on any team's 2nd stringers.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Hicks that is a good point.

    I think Jackson is underrated by most Pacers fans. Yes he makes mistakes and yes he gets too emotional. But when he goes out of the lineup the team suffers, he provides consistant energy and defense that is very underrated. Yes he's streaky, but he is a very good NBA player

    And he's only streaky offensively. He always plays great defense, and that is what makes defensive players great. No matter how well they play on offense, their defense is always there. When you have those players being able to be damn good on offense, like Ronnie and Stephen, then you have struck gold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian
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    The biggest difference between this year and last year is that we are getting backcourt scoring. Last year our backcourt was horrible in the series. Also JT and our other slashers have been able to get into the lane. Which makes it possible to get O rebounds.
    Ah, how soon we forget, huh? We couldn't spread the floor at all against the Pistons in the ECFs and I can only recall Ben leaving the post once to take a swat at Cro. Both he and Sheed made it miserable for us in the paint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    And he's only streaky offensively. He always plays great defense, and that is what makes defensive players great. No matter how well they play on offense, their defense is always there. When you have those players being able to be damn good on offense, like Ronnie and Stephen, then you have struck gold.


    So true and just look at next season. If things work out like we hope, to have your three best defenders be your three best offensive players is very rare.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    So true and just look at next season. If things work out like we hope, to have your three best defenders be your three best offensive players is very rare.
    So you now consider Jamaal one of the Pacers' 3 best defenders?.....Interesting.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat
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    So you now consider Jamaal one of the Pacers' 3 best defenders?.....Interesting.....


    No I was talking about Foster

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Peck, as I'm sure you would guess, I totally disagree with your assessment that Jeff was and I'll use your words, "totally useless" in last years series. Over the past several days I've gone back and watched the series from last year in an effort to gain some insight into this years series. Jeff was very effective in the first 3 games, he defended Sheed well, and he played his game. I think Jeff is playing better this season, but I'll say this again Jeff was not taken out of the lineup because he was struggling. The Pacers team specifically the backcourt could not hit a shot and Tinsley could not create anything, so the coaching staff had to "panic" and use Croshere.

    But believe me the Pacers gave up a lot in the defense and rebounding department when they made that move.

    Jax defense has been excellent in this sweries, he has done a great job. And something else that I can't quite figure out, Jax is able to get his shot off easier than Ron could last season.

    But what I see different from last seasons series is the Pistons shotblocking is not causing nearly the problems that it did last year. I suppose I attribute that to better outside shooting, better offense by the pacers and the fact that Tinsley is causing the Pistons so much trouble.

    One word of caution, Tinsley had a big heating pad on his right shoulder every time he was on the bench last night, so he seems to be breaking down physically already.
    Your not going to like this but here it is.

    The big differance between this years series & last years series (other than not having Artest) is that we are not doing isolation low post basketball. We are moving the ball much better this year & our offensive focus starts with Jamaal Tinsley & not Jermaine O'Neal or Ron Artest.

    Pssst... I'll let you in on a seceret. Jermaine fouling out of the ball game last night was not really a bad thing. It meant that we no longer were going to force the inside outside stuff & the team that made the playoffs (Foster, Davis, Miller, Jakson with Jamaal instead of A.J.) was the one to bring us home.

    BTW, I watched last years games as well. We'll just agree to disagree because panic move or not Jeff didn't get off of the bench last year after game 3 for very many min. & let's be honest that could be a motivating factor for him.

    I see him right now in the Jerome Williams role & I think it suits him very well.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Tins being healthier this year is another reason we start our offense through him more.

    Last year the only reason he played was he hurt us less than the 04 version of AJ. (Sorry, AJ)

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Ok, I know we all like Peck, but how come no one called him on naming this thread wrong? or did i miss a call out or explanation?

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Hicks that is a good point.

    I think Jackson is underrated by most Pacers fans. Yes he makes mistakes and yes he gets too emotional. But when he goes out of the lineup the team suffers, he provides consistant energy and defense that is very underrated. Yes he's streaky, but he is a very good NBA player
    I agree. I'm actually a big Jax supporter. I like his style of play, I like his willingness to take the big shot, and I like his confidence. I think he is going to score 20+ in game 4.

    I agree with you Peck in the fact that I am worried, confident and excited.

    I can't wait untill tip. I think if we win this game we will win the series. But if we lose, I will be shaking in my boots leading up to game 5.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    I don't have much time but here are some quick thoughts about last night's game.

    Like Peck, I had no problem with JO fouling out. I believed that actually gave us a better chance of winning by that point. JO was frustrating me last night with his play on the offensive end and at least once he'd clanked a shot and then went to the defensive end and failed to block out leading to a Piston score.

    I'm wondering if Sjax will ever get consistent calls going to the hoop. Since I was at the game and not watching on TV I didn't get the benefit of second looks but it was surprising we didn't get some whistles there.

    Sjax and his 'streaky' or 'lack of' offense this series. IMHO he is doing a great job defensively. That might be hurting him offensively but I can take that. Of course some whistles when he does get to the hoop would be nice.

    What was Reggie thinking with that one 3 late in the game? We didn't need that... That said... at least he remains aggressive. That puts pressure on Rip who can't just coast on defense and just might take away from his offensive game (see:SJax above). Reggie Miller doesn't need to be looking to increase his 'assist' total this series.

    Never have I worried more about a lead than last night. I just never felt comfortable. As well as we were seemingly playing on defense and with the hard time the Pistons were having getting the ball in the basket (or second chance looks) we should've been ahead by 30 and we weren't. A run was inevitable if we didn't start extending that lead to blowout proportions. Of course credit the Pistons there too.

    The Pistons are defending champs and playoff tested. They are a confident bunch. They might've taken us lightly but that should be over now. Sunday's game will be difficult but the team should have no trouble finding motivation. We should take solace knowing we haven't played our best ball. Tomorrow would be a great time to find an effort like game 7 of the Celtic series.

    I also agree with the thought that this year we are a better team than last, better suited to matchup with these Pistons, than last year. We're healthier and we've played enough without JO that we know we can win with or without him. And getting Dale Davis goes a long way toward negating some of that Piston advantage on the frontline in 'toughness'.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Quote Originally Posted by Pig Nash
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    Ok, I know we all like Peck, but how come no one called him on naming this thread wrong? or did i miss a call out or explanation?
    Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts round 2 game 4......

    Quote Originally Posted by Pig Nash
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    Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?
    Euphoria? Shock?

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    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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