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Thread: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for Artes

  1. #26
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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    and you don't think a player has a right to call him out on it?

    Rim, Austin has every right, but only in-house and not in the papers.



    If Ron wants to run around in public and do image revision then I don't see where a response is out of line.

    That's the reason it's ok for Austin to go public?
    I honestly don't have a problem with Austin doubting Ron one bit. However I do not care one bit for calling someone out in the papers. Same as I didn't care for the way JO called out SJAX. There is a proper way, a leadership, and team mate way to do these things.

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for Artes

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I guess my question is do you think this was a heart felt talk with Austin or do you think that this was a heart felt talk with Austin at the direction of Donnie Walsh?
    Donnie is not going to sit down with Cro and ask him to do his bidding with the media.

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Never to be outdone in my Pacers P.R. conspiracy world I live in I have to ask a question.

    Now I may be paranoid but to me the Pacers players have always followed a very strict code of conduct in terms of interviews. You never hear any dirt nor do you ever hear any of the behind scene action.

    The local press have always been willing accomplises in this but you still never heard a word in the N.Y. or Chicago Papers with direct quotes either.

    I'm just curious since it was Croshere if this wasn't something that the Pacers management wanted said? Austin can be accused of a lot of things but the one thing I think we can all agree on is that he is a good soldier in survice to the Pacers. My guess is that Donnie wanted this out there or it wouldn't have been.

    I guess my question is do you think this was a heart felt talk with Austin or do you think that his was a heart felt talk with Austin at the direction of Donnie Walsh?

    Make no mistake, the Pacer's brass have an extremely short lease on the players, and team in general. I know from first hand experience (As ussal, I can't say why.) However, I think this is Austin just plain, old speaking his mind. Good for him. I don't give a crap about the timing. I don't attribute any Machevellian undertones to it. I'm just happy to hear someone speak their mind.
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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for Artes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Interesting article. The writer said many things some of you have said recently.

    I also find nothing wrong with anything Croshere said in this article. It is all true. The players could not care any less what Artest says on ESPN. And Artest has to repair his image and his place on the Pacers through his actions not by what he says in some interview.

    One last thing. Cro is by far the best interview on the team. Better than J.O.


    I did not take anything Cro said as him having harsh feeling towards Ron. Cro was just very honest in his assessment of the situation.

    This might surprise some of you, but I don't disagree with a word that Cro said
    I agree with your thoughts 100%. I didn't see Cro as being harsh, but rather I see Cro as giving an honest assessment, something that I hope Artest can visualize happening before that situation arises so that he will handle the stressful situations better.

    Interesting thought, though. If Reggie is not in the game (retired) and we're down 3, who on THIS team (as it is now) do we have to step up and bury the 3? This reiterates the fact that Reggie has to be considered the greatest all-time clutch shooter of all-time. Period. Jordan included-mostly not him because his teams were so good that he didn't have to step-up to make the last shot too many times. Jordan is a close second.

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for Artes

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    No, this was all Austin here and I'm in the complete minority probably when I say Austin needs to keep his mouth shut. Be a man and tell Ron Artest to his face what you think Cro -snip-
    I'd tend to agree with these comments.

    I've suspected what Austin said to be true for a long time (duh?) but I never expected to see it in quotation marks.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    And having said that...

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    I am joining that minority, these comments are "out of line" and definitely harder to swallow from #12 in the rotation, who would be most likely not even on the roster had Ron been available.
    Better he shows what he's made of, since he will top the list of overpaid players again next year.

    Also if you read the article "carefully" you will notice that Austin didn't say that much, most of it is the writer "posing" the statements or "thinking aloud".
    1) your critique of Crosehere is probably also out of line, too, but that's okay. Say what you want about Cro's contract/ talent, but he's the one guy on the team that the whole "One Goal" campaign applies to. He's about one thing, helping his team win. Sometimes he just can't do it, or it takes him too long to 'get in the groove', but he's never been accused of having an alternative agenda like so many of our 'more talented' players.

    B) I pulled out Austin's direct quotes above. I'd say he spoke loud and clear. If everything is hunky-dorey with Ron praciticing with the team now, expect the chemistry issues / total lack of trust to return as soon as these guys realize Ron's a risk to hurt them in games again.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  7. #32
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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech
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    Make no mistake, the Pacer's brass have an extremely short lease on the players, and team in general. I know from first hand experience (As ussal, I can't say why.)
    Hey Scott, by chance do you have white hair, glasses, and maybe help the Colts/NFL on the side?

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    I honestly don't have a problem with Austin doubting Ron one bit. However I do not care one bit for calling someone out in the papers. Same as I didn't care for the way JO called out SJAX. There is a proper way, a leadership, and team mate way to do these things.
    With Ron that's been done (adressing it in-house). For two years, maybe three.

    Didn't work.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Let me rephrase; they do not need Austin "overpaid" Croshere for it
    Based on their relative contributions to the team this year, Artest is far, far more overpaid than Croshere is.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Artest is not paid for this year except the first 9 games.

    A set percentage of what was due to him goes to the league/charity, the remainder is "cost saving" for the Pacers.


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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    With Ron that's been done (adressing it in-house). For two years, maybe three.

    Didn't work.

    This is very true Rim. However, it's management's responsibility to let that be known outside the Pacer circle if needed. Austin needs to be a good soldier (and he has) until now.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    This is very true Rim. However, it's management's responsibility to let that be known outside the Pacer circle if needed. Austin needs to be a good soldier (and he has) until now.
    Management is much more dismissive about these kinds of things then you seem to think. And certainly much more dismissive than fans. What Cro said was pretty straightforward and will be taken with a grain of salt by the powers that be.

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    This is very true Rim. However, it's management's responsibility to let that be known outside the Pacer circle if needed. Austin needs to be a good soldier (and he has) until now.
    Possibly - though I think it's very possible that, with ample evidence that dealing with Ron in-house hasn't worked, they may have decided that commenting publicly might actually have some sort of impact on him.

    Personally, after what Ron did to the team, I can't argue with what any remaining Pacer has to say about him. Ron certainly hasn't worried about how his actions might impact the club. It's even more possible that the rest of the team - or at least a large portion of the players - don't want him back and they feel this is a way of getting that through as well.

    Anyway, that's for Walsh and Bird, and Carlisle to work out. I'm NOT saying that players have the right to say anything they like to anyone they want - that's not true for most companies and it shouldn't be for Indy. But with Croshere's past behavior, I wonder if he was given something of a green light with this.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Wink Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    [/b]

    This is, I think, the heart of what Croshere feels about Ron. I think it's absolutely fair, and some may say it's generous. But let me point out what it doesn't say. It doesn't say Croshere thinks Ron should be traded. It doesn't say anybody on the team does. It does say they want him to do really really well to balance all the things he screwed up (and he's done more than his share). If the guys on the team didn't want to play with Ron, it seems like we'd be hearing "Ron's made a lot of mistakes, and frankly guys are sick of dealing with them."

    Ron can't atone for his mistakes by playing on another team.

    roshere said he had watched part of Artest's interview. "I just turned it off because it's kind of at the point now where I think everybody on the team is like, 'Well, I'll believe it when I see it,' " Croshere said.

    Uh, that's sounds a little more "fed up" than you're willing to admit.

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Artest is not paid for this year except the first 9 games.

    A set percentage of what was due to him goes to the league/charity, the remainder is "cost saving" for the Pacers.


    facts, facts, facts, the make most topics so much easier.
    Yes it is - and the money the Pacers pay out is still listed under Ron Artest's salary, still counts against the cap and still costs them.

    Whether he has to pay a penalty after the money's paid out or not, it's still his salary - the same as an encumbered paycheck is salary whether you ever see any of that money or not.

    And I'm not talking tax laws or anything like that - I'm talking about how the payments from the Pacers are handled under the NBA rules - still a cash outlay and still listed as Ron Artest's salary.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    OK one at a time: "in NBA history"????? I suggest you read up on that history, worse "let downs" have happened a lot of the times, people "forcing" a trade and so on, so don't go there.
    If you were living in the UK I would tell you to read less tabloids and form your own opinion of what you see, not what you read.
    I am firmly in the camp that believes that what Jax did on 11/19 was a lot worse, I also think that Ron's "flagrant" in the ECF was nowhere near that, and I judge that upon what I see if I replay that game.

    Players have every right to call him out on it, however they have every bleeding day of the week to do that, in the lockerroom, on the practise court, on the phone, as I am sure they all have his number, or they can even pop by his house, they do not need a crummy NY reporter to this for them, it is described as "class"

    Ron doing image restoration, no doubt partly with help of the Pacers organization, does not need "contra weighing" by his teammate, #12 on the roster and a grossly overpaid dude at that as well.
    There are enough "enemies" out there to not need this from Austin.

    This "Ron went into the stands beating people up" has caught on nicely, in my book it is revisionist, watch the tapes again, see what really happened.

    And Ron's "quitting" on the team? that's been hashed out enough and was not the reason he was suspended this ridiculously long period of time, surpassing a guy who tried to kill his coach, ot the lot that has been brought up for drug charges, wife beating and other niceties.
    The quiting is something the team deals with, in the locker room and with management, they do not need the press to solve that.
    Let me rephrase; they do not need Austin "overpaid" Croshere for it

    HE WENT AFTER THE FANS! The fans PAY THE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to keep the NBA in limos and penthouses. What don't you grasp about the relative importance of THAT fact to the penalty Artest received? In the eyes of the NBA money grubbers, nothing more important or horrific could happen.

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for Artes

    I think it's a beautiful thing that he laid it on the line and clarified what guys IN THE LOCKERROOM really think about the situation.
    Now we don't have to hear anymore speculative drivel on here that the team all loves him and is behind him 100%.

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for Artes

    I will stand in Peck's corner on this one. This scenario seems very, very odd to me. A New York paper . . . interview Croshere of all people. Something fishy here. If I was a writer from the Times, Croshere is the last person I would approach to get a quote on the situation. I mean, he's not high profile enough so who cares?

    If, indeed, true I have no problem with what he said although it would seem very out of character. Austin absolutely represents ONE GOAL more than any one player and I believe quotes of this nature would violate his own sense of "what's good for the team" without some outside influence.

    I have questions about this.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  19. #44

    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for Artes

    Everyone needs to shut up. Artest should not be doing these interviews, not during the middle of the playoffs. I think it can cause distractions...maybe it is such a distraction that is why Croshere has played like **** for a long time.
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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for Artes

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Never to be outdone in my Pacers P.R. conspiracy world I live in I have to ask a question.

    Now I may be paranoid but to me the Pacers players have always followed a very strict code of conduct in terms of interviews. You never hear any dirt nor do you ever hear any of the behind scene action.

    The local press have always been willing accomplises in this but you still never heard a word in the N.Y. or Chicago Papers with direct quotes either.

    I'm just curious since it was Croshere if this wasn't something that the Pacers management wanted said? Austin can be accused of a lot of things but the one thing I think we can all agree on is that he is a good soldier in survice to the Pacers. My guess is that Donnie wanted this out there or it wouldn't have been.

    I guess my question is do you think this was a heart felt talk with Austin or do you think that his was a heart felt talk with Austin at the direction of Donnie Walsh?


    Peck, I must say some of your theories are a little screwy and this is sure one of them. Walsh had nothing to do with this. Cro was just speaking the truth. (keeping it real, It's all good). Sorry, does anyone else that last two phrases as much as I do.


    As far as to why Cro was interviewed. First of all we have no idea who else was interviewed and said nothing more than the company line, plus if I were a reporter and wanted honest thoughtful answers I would go to Croshere first and last.

  21. #46
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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    HE WENT AFTER THE FANS! The fans PAY THE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to keep the NBA in limos and penthouses. What don't you grasp about the relative importance of THAT fact to the penalty Artest received? In the eyes of the NBA money grubbers, nothing more important or horrific could happen.


    There are a lot of things more horrific that could happen. A huge gambling ring within the NBA where players, really good players are involved throwing games.

    That would kill the NBA faster than anything that could happen.

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for Artes

    Let's point out one thing about Croshere,

    He's typically been the one level-headed guy on the team that could get to Ron when he would be on the cusp of an explosion.

    Heck, Croshere is usually the guy calming Mr. Cool (Rick) down.

    It isn't like its JO airing his rumored dirty laundry or Pollard being funny.

    This is THE ONE GUY THAT SEEMED TO BE ABLE TO REACH RON WHEN HE NEEDED IT!!!!
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  23. #48
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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for Artes

    Sorry guys but the more I think about this the more upsetting it is. Here's a splendid idea why don't they just let everything out and let Austin be the spokesperson.

    Reporter "Well Austin can you tell us what's going on with the team"?

    Austin" Sure Jim, let me fill you in on everything. Everyone on this team hates Ron Artest except for Stephen Jackson. We don't trust him and want him gone. Actually while were on the subject most of the guys would like to see Jackson gone to because we can't trust him. We thought JO might be a leader for us, but since he was involved in the brawl as well we can't trust him either.

    Reporter "Austin, we heard from some of the guys you just aren't pulling your weight and it would be nice if somehow the Pacers could fill your spot with someone else".

    Austin "I you sure about that? I've haven't heard anything".

    Reporter "Yes it's true. Reggie Miller pulled me to the side and told me".

    Austin "Well that figures coming from someone who should have retired two years ago".

    Might point is still, if you want to question someone on your team that is fine, but when it's taken outside your inner circle you better be prepared to take the same hits.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for Artes

    I cannot disagree with you more RWB. Croshere has pulled his weight this year and under enormous physical obstacles. It was just earlier in the year and people seem to forget.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Default Re: VERY Interesting NYTIMES story about the Pacers and Austin's harsh feelings for A

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    There are a lot of things more horrific that could happen. A huge gambling ring within the NBA where players, really good players are involved throwing games.

    That would kill the NBA faster than anything that could happen.
    To me, it's quite obvious the NBA doesn't give a **** about its fans. If they gave a **** about the fans, the games wouldn't start at 6:00, did anyone else notice how empty the place was at the start of the game? I had to bust *** just to get there on time. And if they cared about the fans, 45 dollars would get you more than a Section 225 seat.
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