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Thread: Paul Pierce

  1. #51
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Sactolover05
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    I think most people are eager to trade Ron is because they want results now. That's why we have such a hard time with Bender. We all want to see the results ASAP.

    We need to do something about BENDER, but we need to give RON a chance before we do anything drastic. I say if he hasn't improved our team by next year's all-star break...THEN WE TRADE HIM.
    I think those willing to deal Ron are usually those willing to suffer a year or two's setback, to later have a chance at not only greatness, but long-term, stable greatness.
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  2. #52
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Everyone has thier own reasons...

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Let me ask this really stupid question. If Ron did not have any issues, is there anyone who would trade Artest for Pierce.
    I think you know the answer to this question. I think you also realize that's simply not the reality of Ron Artest.

  4. #54
    pb777
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    I for one would NOT be jumping up and down to trade for PP, let's call him pee-pee. Pee-Pee is just to much a crybaby. There's rarely any fire with pee-pee. He can shoot, but, pee-pee would not be a good leader or locker room guy here. The Pacers dont like seeing pee-pee in their locker room, you know they prefer big chested pretty women. We need more warrior type guys anyway, like Amarie. I just dont see pee-pee as a good fit for the Pacers. What do you think, would you like to see pee-pee here?

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Sactolover05
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    We need to do something about BENDER, but we need to give RON a chance before we do anything drastic. I say if he hasn't improved our team by next year's all-star break...THEN WE TRADE HIM.
    Although, by the time it reached that point, I don't imagine anyone else would take him, at least not in a reasonable trade. Hell, no one wants to now, even.

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  6. #56
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey
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    Hell no.

    Remember what Larry Bird said (illustrated in rabidpacerfan's signature), something along the lines of "No one goes through what Ron did and doesn't change". Please, let's just wait to see what we have here before we do any premature deals like this. I'm not going to give up on Ronnie.
    We already know "what we have here."

    "What we have here" hasn't changed one bit since his days with the Bulls, and probably before that even. Well, maybe he's gotten worse, but probably not.

    Leopards can't change thier spots. There's no reasonable, rational reason to believe Ron will be any different in the future than he has been in the recent and not-so-recent past.

    This is all just wishful thinking, except for the posturing from Pacers' management in order to save face with an acceptable trade.

    Pacers' management was ready to pull the trigger last summer, shopping him for McGrady, Pierce, Redd, Wells, etc., and no one would touch him. Let's quit pretending that he's untouchable, Pacers' management was just subscribing to the "bigger fool" theory and it backfired. All it would've taken last summer is one team to say, "What the heck, maybe he can turn it around here". Clearly there aren't any other GMs in the league - with the possible exception of Isiah (who's got nothing to offer) - that believe he can turn it around. And that is the one, singular reason he was even a Pacer at the beginning of the season. He's not here because DW or Bird want him, he's here because -when it was time to make a deal- nobody else wanted him, either.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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  7. #57
    Tim
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Folks, if you are serious about Paul, its gonna cost us TINSLEY.

    Tinsley is the most important player on the team, not JO and definately not Ron.

    There is no way Doc gives up Paul without Tinsley in return. You all know the Pacers are a much better team with a healthy Tinsley, he makes the Pacers contenders.

    There is NO WAY we part with Tinsley, he is the only player we that makes the whole team better.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Who says we tried to trade Ron for Pierce?
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  9. #59
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim
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    There is NO WAY we part with Tinsley, he is the only player we that makes the whole team better.


  10. #60
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Let me ask this really stupid question. If Ron did not have any issues, is there anyone who would trade Artest for Pierce.
    I'll echo Hicks here. My only reasons for dealing Artest is what goes on between his ears.

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Leopards can't change thier spots.
    I hate that saying.

    Yes, a leopard cannot change it's phenotype. Only through selective breeding, can a leopard's physical attributes be changed.

    Ron Artest's problem is not his physical characteristics; it is his behavior.

    The analogy does not work.

  12. #62
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    I'll take Pierce........for a second rounder.

  13. #63
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreKen
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    I'll echo Hicks here. My only reasons for dealing Artest is what goes on between his ears.

    Agreed, and with Jay too.

    I'd love to see Ron succeed here. But as I've said before, the 19th proved that with Ron, no lead is so big and no game is so secure that you can be sure of how he will react to anything. I promise you he will not go into the stands again but, you never know what he will do. His teamates will ALWAYS have to look over their shoulders or watching him out of the corner of their eye. And rightly or wrongly, everytime he sits on the bench and slyly gives the crowd the finger it will be magnified 100 fold by the media. Every move he makes will be photgraphed and scrutinized microscopically. But that not only affects him, it affects his teamates. Do they want to live with this? How much distraction will it create for the team? Do you want the focus of this team to be his every action, or the winning of games? BTW, this won't go away after just a few games or months...like British royalty, from here on he will have the paparizzi following his every move.
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  14. #64
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    For you Ron Artest supporters, is there anyone you would trade this guy for?

    Is it only KG, Duncan? Would you even trade him for Shaq, Lebron, or Wade?

    If this is the type of player you think that he is, with the mental baggage and all, did we not way overpay JO? Should we not look to trade JO and build around Artest. These two do not work together. It has been well documented that Artest and JO have had many fights behind the scenes. And Artest's complaint last year was that he didn't like the throw it into JO offense.

    Does this team need to do nothing? Are you content to stay the same over the summer?
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  15. #65
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Where's this (apparent) myth that Boston would demand Tinsley coming from? Aside from just because you might think they would?

  16. #66
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Where's this (apparent) myth that Boston would demand Tinsley coming from? Aside from just because you might think they would?
    Especially considering they already have Delonte West and Marcus Banks to follow Gary Payton.
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  17. #67
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
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    For you Ron Artest supporters, is there anyone you would trade this guy for?

    Is it only KG, Duncan? Would you even trade him for Shaq, Lebron, or Wade?
    DD, I said I was gonna be done with this discussion, but you're bringing up all the old stupid arguments again and I can't stay out.

    Yes, I would trade Ron for all of those guys. Everybody here would. Yes, I was in favor of trading Ron for TMac. No, I don't (in general) like the trade of Ron for Peja, but I know Bird's always been crazy about Peja and would be ok with it. Odom goes on that list as well. James Posey does not. Bonzi Wells does not. A second-round pick does not. An expiring contract does not.

    Try to understand the issues here. I'm so freaking sick if this line of questioning. A leopard can change his stripes... look at Rasheed Wallace. 11/19 didn't "prove" anything about how Ron will act in the future. If he comes back and isn't a changed man, then I'll be fine with moving him. And if Bird/Donnie/Carlisle say he needs to go, then I won't second-guess them. But you're refusing to believe the coach, GM, president, and teammates just to fit your own opinions.

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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  18. #68
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    And for the record....

    Until somebody shows me otherwise, I don't believe we tried to trade Artest for Pierce. I don't believe we tried to trade him for Walker (I believe Artest was the target and Walker the bait, and we wisely said no). I don't believe West refused to move Bonzi for Ron (he had complimentary things to say about Ron a few weeks after, and so I've always viewed it as an attempt to bargain). I believe we tried to move Artest for Redd (back when we still had harrington). I believe we tried to move Ron for Peja.
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  19. #69
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section222
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    There's no reasonable, rational reason to believe Ron will be any different in the future than he has been in the recent and not-so-recent past.
    The reasonable, and rational reason to believe Ron will change is because he just served a season-long suspension, losing millions of dollars, and being withheld from playing the game he loves.

    I want to see what this experience has taught him; he has most likely gained so much more respect for the game (which he has been quoted as saying). And all I know is that line-up we played before 11/19 was something of beauty that I need to see again. Let's not forget the scoreboard on 11/19.

  20. #70
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey
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    The reasonable, and rational reason to believe Ron will change is because he just served a season-long suspension, losing millions of dollars, and being withheld from playing the game he loves.

    I want to see what this experience has taught him; he has most likely gained so much more respect for the game (which he has been quoted as saying). And all I know is that line-up we played before 11/19 was something of beauty that I need to see again. Let's not forget the scoreboard on 11/19.

    He's been punished repeatedly in the past. I just don't see how a longer punishment - related to an on-court incident - is really going to make a difference to his off-court disruptions. Why do I feel like I'm the only one that remembers that he quit on the team/ got in a fight with our annointed franchise player just a week before the brawl? I don't care if he never does anything suspendable on-the-court ever again, I'm concenred about the behind-the-scenes crap and I don't think you can connect the dots between this punishment (for which he told GQ he didn't really do anything wrong) and the off-court crap.

    People keep referring to this comment, "one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over-and-over while expecting different results." Its crazy to expect that he'll finally change his disruptive behavior *this time*. Maybe he will change - anything's possible no matter how remote the odds, but its crazy to expect it.

    As I've said before, I think his best chance - albeit remote - of changing will come from a change-of-scenery, not the severity of this particular punishment. He frankly deserves a fresh start -especially in arenas outside of Indianapolis - that he won't get with the Pacers.

    I'm not saying he's not learning anything from this experience, but what he's probably learned is, "I'm one step away from permanent expulsion", so its likely that his logical response is to not play 'so close to the edge'. It may take him a long time to figure out how to balance his characteristic high levels of effort with the reality that he must keep himself under control.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  21. #71
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    One thing in the Artest situation is which way the team wants to hedge their bets on Artest. Do they want to hang onto him at almost all costs (except getting an All Star in a trade) or do they so worry enough about another 'episode' that they believe to not trade for the best deal possible would bite them later if an episode would happen and his trade value plummet below zero.

    Obviously they can't come out and SAY option 2 is where they are setting up camp.

    BTW... I agree with the premise if this situation hasn't gotten thru to him than nothing will... but you still can't be worry free. And I'm sure every GM in the league feels the same way. One more 'episode' and he'll be absolute poison... if he's not already.

    Would a banning from the NBA relieve the Pacers contractually?

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  22. #72
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    Would a banning from the NBA relieve the Pacers contractually?

    -BBall

    Even if the answer is 'yes' (and I think it is), I don't believe that really helps the Pacers in terms of a replacement because they're still way over the cap.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  23. #73
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Even if the answer is 'yes' (and I think it is), I don't believe that really helps the Pacers in terms of a replacement because they're still way over the cap.
    Well then they would just appeal to the NBA to.... uhhhhh nevermind...


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  24. #74
    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    I think those willing to deal Ron are usually those willing to suffer a year or two's setback, to later have a chance at not only greatness, but long-term, stable greatness.
    Are you planning on Bender coming back or something? He has zero trade value, so what do you think you're going to get for him? This team is always injury prone, so I doubt that's going to change. It would be this exact team with maybe a same caliber backup pg, or some variation of DD.

  25. #75
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    Default Re: Paul Pierce

    We could easily get something good for Artest. I would take someone like Corey Magette or Quentin Richardson for Artest. Sure these guys aren't in the same level as Artest, but they would help out our team.

    The Kings traded Webber for 3 PF's. We don't really need to get equal falue out of Artest. You just want what's gonna help this team all around. I'd be contempt with trading Artest for 1 pretty good player and 1/2 decent players.

    With Miller retiring, we have our 3 main scoring options set, S-Jax, JO, and Artest. Half the time though they all want to be the first option. A couple more role players would help out, and possible make our bench even stronger.

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