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Thread: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    This first article is really good, the quote from Ben is towards the very end. Talking about what the players do effects what the fans do. The second article might make you a little upset.


    http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/...A01-175565.htm
    Time to savor Pistons-Pacers matchup

    Instead of wailing about the brawl, we should embrace the teams' riveting rivalry.

    By Bob Wojnowski / The Detroit News



    Game 1




    Oh, no, not again


    AUBURN HILLS

    Can't dodge it, can't deny it. Can't hide from it. What we saw last November was stupefying, a player-fan brawl at The Palace that staggered a sport, crushed one team and damaged another.

    But here's an idea, delivered without cost. Instead of wailing relentlessly about how bad that was, can we embrace, starting tonight, how good this rivalry might be?

    For many reasons, not all of them ugly, the Pistons-Pacers series that opens at The Palace should be riveting, and could be cleansing. We know it will be heated, the most electric playoff atmosphere around here since the Red Wings and Colorado Avalanche (hockey, remember?) used to square off.

    It's back to basketball, back to competition, blessedly. That's all the Pistons care about and all they want to talk about. It better be all the fans care about.

    It's all Indiana cares about after a season of upheaval lowlighted by the Nov. 19 brawl, which was sparked by Ron Artest's mad dash at a stupid cup-throwing Pistons fan. The spectacle launched a nationwide discussion on athlete-fan violence.

    Time to get over it? The only way everyone -- from players to coaches to fans to media to league officials -- gets over it is by seeing something good emerge from it. The fight scenes will be replayed forever. It's up to the Pistons, the sturdy champs, and the Pacers, the riled upstarts, to deliver something fresh.

    "I'm not going to answer any questions pertaining to the brawl," Pistons guard Chauncey Billups said with polite firmness Sunday. "I just want to talk basketball. You all are the ones that hype it up, but there's no bad blood from anybody on our team. We've got a nice rivalry here. They're a very good team, and we feel like we're the best team, so there are going to be heated battles. I'm over that other stuff."

    I believe him. I believe other players who say the same thing. I believe fans are learning to police themselves, evidenced by the quick fingering of the coin-tosser during the Philadelphia series. I believe Palace security will be fine, and both teams will be composed.

    But we need to see it to be sure. We need a series without any ridiculous threats or cocked fists. The only time the Pacers have played here since the brawl was March 25, and the game was delayed 90 minutes after a telephoned bomb threat.

    There are too many great angles in this series to be obliterated by the giant hideous one. Mainly, there's one team that badly, desperately, maniacally wants what the other team has.

    The Pistons beat the Pacers in a six-game showdown last season, then won the title. Starting there, nearly everything that has gone wrong for Indiana has its roots with the Pistons, fairly or unfairly. Artest was suspended for the season. Stephen Jackson was suspended for 30 games and star Jermaine O'Neal for 15.

    The Pistons lost Ben Wallace for six games but recovered. The Pacers rebounded but still haven't completely recovered. Whether they admit it or not -- and occasionally, the bitterness surfaces -- they must blame the Pistons for ruining their season. They know there's only one way to fix it, which makes this rematch fitting and appropriate, and also juicy.

    "It's only right," O'Neal told reporters after Indiana beat Boston on Saturday night to advance. "Personally, this is what I wanted. I wanted to see this team. I'm pretty sure Detroit wanted to see us. We're beyond the extracurricular activities. We want to have a good, hard-played series and the best team will win."

    The Pistons are the better team, by almost any measure, although they need to show it more consistently than they did against Philadelphia. If they crank up their defense and tone down their turnovers, they might even handle the Pacers decisively.

    But the intangibles can't be dismissed. Indiana coach Rick Carlisle was fired after two 50-victory seasons in Detroit. Indiana's Reggie Miller is closing out an 18-year career. O'Neal and Rasheed Wallace are buddies off the floor, sparring partners on it.

    The Pacers wanted this meeting, urgently. That churning edge is what the Pistons have to match.

    "They wanted us," Billups said, before a long, long pause. "They got us."

    This is why we care about these silly games, in case anyone forgot. Because intense competition can be fascinating. Because reputations can be altered and careers can be made.

    Can one fiercely entertaining series completely erase the stain of the brawl? Nah.

    But it can ease the sting.

    "I think a lot of good can come out of this, with two deserving teams trying to move on," Pistons coach Larry Brown said. "We've played three times since the fight and the games were hard played, but no dirty stuff. Both teams have been through a lot and handled it pretty well. ... I just hope the players understand that (brawl stuff) is over and the fans understand it's over. Let's learn from it and move on."

    Both sides are saying the right things now, but that hasn't always been the case. O'Neal suggested in a February interview that Ben Wallace didn't get enough blame for riling Artest. And Miller blasted the Pistons and Palace security after the bomb threat.

    The Pacers' irritation is understandable, and their hunger for redemption justifiable. The Pistons get it. But that doesn't mean they're backing down.

    "If I was those guys, I'd want to play us too," Rasheed Wallace said. "It's been a good feud, but I don't think it's bad blood. I think it's respect. Those guys go hard and vice versa. Nobody's out there being a dirty player."

    Artest isn't out there, which helps. So we should expect great theater, heated but clean. In fact, we should demand it. Of course, it's still up to the players and fans to show it.

    Everyone is on alert, and they should be. Asked if he had a message for the fans, Ben Wallace responded as he usually does, as the no-nonsense team leader.

    "The biggest message we can send is by going out and playing basketball," he said. "A lot of times, the fans react to the way we're playing. So let's just play."

    Just play. After all the charges and countercharges, all the angst and anger, that would be the best scene of all, whether it's worthy of endless replay or not.

  2. #2
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/...D01-175359.htm

    Pacers' tarnished image will be part of our game forever

    Some players overstepped their boundary in fateful November melee.

    By Rob Parker / The Detroit News



    AUBURN HILLS -- The Pistons didn't say it Sunday. But then again, they didn't have to.

    The Pacers have an image problem. Thanks to those players who took part in the now-infamous brawl in November, some fans outside Indiana look at them as thugs.

    For their unlawful actions here, those responsible shouldn't be featured on "SportsCenter". How about "America's Most Wanted"?

    "How can you look at the Indiana Pacers any other way than as wannabe thugs," said basketball fan John Davis, of Southfield. "What they did was wrong and uncalled for."

    This isn't any time to mince words.

    For once, you get the feeling NBA America will be rooting for the Pistons. Normally, fans would pull for the underdog against the defending champs. Not here. It will be nearly impossible for people to root for the Pacers in the best-of-seven Eastern Conference semifinals.

    And with good reason.

    That video of certain Pacers players attacking fans at The Palace is permanently burned into our minds.

    We will never forget the look of horror on those fans not involved in the melee -- the fathers, mothers, and most of all, the children. Especially the sight of the little boy crying when it was all over.

    "It's embedded in people's minds," Pistons forward Antonio McDyess said after practice. "Guys going in the stands, guys fighting on the floor.

    "I don't know if they label them as thugs or not. But watching that, you have a different outlook on them now."

    Sure, that brawl wasn't all the Pacers' fault. Some knucklehead fans must be held responsible, too. And they are -- or will be.

    Still, the Pacers took to the stands throwing blows at anyone within reach.

    "That's what people are going to remember the most about stuff like that," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "I don't find it hard to believe at all."

    Sure, Ron Artest is gone -- rightly suspended for the season. Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal, though, are back from their suspensions.

    "We, as players, have tried to put it behind us," Pistons forward Tayshaun Prince said. "But it's a situation where it's always going to be out there when we play them."

    You won't have to worry about Artest making an appearance at The Palace. It won't happen. When a player is suspended, he can't be in the building. Period. If you saw Artest on the bench at the end of the regular season, it was an exception.

    "That was only because it was Reggie Miller's final home game," NBA commissioner David Stern said about Artest's stint on the bench. "This is not just for Artest. Players can't be on the bench, in the building when they are suspended."

    It wasn't long ago many in NBA America thought the Pistons were thugs. Especially considering the team's nickname -- Bad Boys.

    Fans couldn't stand Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn. Why? Because they played physical basketball.

    The Pacers, on that fateful November evening, took that whole image to another level.

    And it's one they have to live with.

  3. #3
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Some reasonable predictions here.

    Staff predictions


    The Detroit News






    • Chris McCosky: Don't get caught up in all the talk about the Pacers' motivation. Don't believe for a second that winning this series somehow means more to the Pacers than it does the Pistons. That's garbage. The events of Nov. 19 are in no way a factor in this series (other than the fact that Ron Artest is still suspended). When you pare this thing down to just basketball, it seems pretty cut and dry. The Pacers, amazingly resilient, are an aging and beat-up team. Their talent, their pride and the exceptional coaching of Rick Carlisle and Kevin O'Neill, will be good enough to get them one game. Pistons in five.

    • Angelique S. Chengelis: The freshness factor will be the key early for the rested Pistons. But this series will go seven games. The Pacers have depth, playoff experience and want the Reggie Miller Farewell Tour to continue. Pistons in seven.

    • Dave Dye: Wake me up when it's finally time for the Pistons-Heat, OK? Pistons in five.

    • Terry Foster: After watching that terrible display of basketball between the Pacers and Celtics, there can't be anyone outside the Hoosier state who believes the Pacers can turn from horror show to classic film in a matter of hours. I certainly don't. Pistons in six.

    • Tom Gage: This series will be physical and not as easy as many people believe. Pistons in six.

    • Joanne C. Gerstner: What will take longer -- all the national media rehashing the Nov. 19 brawl or watching this series? The Pacers have done well to salvage this season and get into the playoffs. Beating the Celtics in the first round was overachieving. The Pacers don't have the firepower to match the Pistons. Pistons in six.

    • Dave Goricki: The Pacers had their best chance to beat the Pistons last season and blew it. They will be lucky to win a game in the series this time. Pistons in five.

    • Lynn Henning: I'm glad the Pacers got to the second round. No matter what you think about events from last November, Rick Carlisle's team got points all season long for the way Indiana played with a fractionalized team. If Ron Artest were playing, I'd still pick the Pistons in six. Pistons in five.

    • Ted Kulfan: This won't be an easy series for the Pistons, in many ways. Obviously the riot will be brought up endlessly, and the Pacers are a good enough team that knows how to play the Pistons and frustrate them. It's going to be a difficult series. Pistons in six.

    • Vartan Kupelain: Right now, the Pistons are too smart, too good. Everything is a warm-up until they get to South Beach. Pistons in five.

    • Mike O'Hara: Don't be too quick to count out the Pacers. If they can shoot three-pointers like they did against Boston on Saturday night -- 10 for 17 -- they can make a run. Trouble is, the Pistons won't leave them wide open. It's a tough series, but the Pistons are a tough team. Pistons in five.

    • John Niyo: If it's a split in Detroit, we just might have a series. If not -- and Game 1 is probably the Pacers' only hope -- things could get ugly. Of course, we should expect as much when these two teams get together. Pistons in five

    • Rob Parker: The Pistons finally will put this old and tired story to rest. The Pacers will go home again at the hands of the Pistons. Indiana didn't have enough with Ron Artest last year in the conference finals. Without him, they're doomed. This time, it'll only take five games. Pistons in five.

    • Jim Spadafore: The Pacers have to be emotionally drained after their seven-game series against the Celtics. The Pistons are well-rested. Pistons in six.

    • Bob Wojnowski: Indiana does have some emotional edges, the ones that generally give an underdog a chance. But the Pistons' physical advantages are significant. The Pacers looked horrible at times against Boston. If they look horrible at times against the Pistons, this won't be pretty. Pistons in five.

    http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/...D02-175326.htm

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    That 2nd article's one of the biggest piece of crap I've wasted my time reading. THIS is the type of thing the press needs to avoid writing. Calling the Pacers "thugs"? That's just stupid and wrong.

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by shags
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    That 2nd article's one of the biggest piece of crap I've wasted my time reading. THIS is the type of thing the press needs to avoid writing. Calling the Pacers "thugs"? That's just stupid and wrong.

    I just posted it to get us all fired up

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    The part about all the looks on the peoples faces was total crap. Everyone was throwing things they were all guilty and Detroit should be playing in front of an empty arena.

    I fully expect another incident this week in Detroit if we win a game there. And once again they will send the cameras to Indiana to see if it happens again idiots.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Some reasonable predictions here.

    Staff predictions

    The Detroit News
    Lest these hacks forget, no one in the media picked the Pistons to beat the Lakers either.

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    What I love is the fact that these jokes of reporters think this Pacer team is the exact same as the last one.

    Of course in their minds Dale Davis is just some shotless old man who was never 1/16 as good as Ben Wallace.

    Reggie Miller is being carried, but is still useless.

    Stephen Jackson could never guard Rip and will do nothing to help the Pacers.

    Anthony Johnson, Puhlease, Anthony Johnson?

    JO, well he's good but Rasheed is better.

    Its too bad the Pistons don't think this way.
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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    OK, I'm just going to say this.

    The Pistons are not that good, at least not as good as these people are making them out to be. Did I miss the part where the Pistons dominated this Pacer team in the regular season or the playoffs last year? They are the champs, but they are not Jordan's Bulls or the 80's Celtics and Lakers. In spite of beating the watered-down version in the Finals last year, they are not even Lakers from the early part of this decade. They are a team that has 5 good starters, plays very good defense, and had alot of things fall into place for them last year. They are among the contenders this year, but that is all. They are not head and shoulders above the crowd. If they got one eye on Shaq and Heat already, like the Detroit media does, they will get beat. If they are sitting around thinking that calling themselve "the champs" is going to put points on the board for them in this series, they will get beat. This is one of the most average NBA championship team in the last 20 years yet the tone of the media and even some of the team ("Be careful what you wish for" ) sounds as if they are a dynasty.

    Well, :finger: Detroit. If both teams play well in any game in this series, the game is a tossup. No we don't have Artest, but we do have Stephen Jackson this year. We do have a Reggie Miller we haven't seen since the late 90's showing up every now and then. We do have another shooter in James Jones now. We have the double-D down low now. We have a huge chip on our shoulder as well. We also have the better bench this time (time for Austin to do his thing). Last year, you won more of the tossup games and therefore won the series. We'll just see if it's going to be as easy as you think this year.

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Chris McCosky: Don't get caught up in all the talk about the Pacers' motivation. Don't believe for a second that winning this series somehow means more to the Pacers than it does the Pistons. That's garbage. The events of Nov. 19 are in no way a factor in this series (other than the fact that Ron Artest is still suspended). When you pare this thing down to just basketball, it seems pretty cut and dry. The Pacers, amazingly resilient, are an aging and beat-up team. Their talent, their pride and the exceptional coaching of Rick Carlisle and Kevin O'Neill, will be good enough to get them one game. Pistons in five.

    HUH?? I mean I realize that this is just one man's opinion...But DAMN! Are we aging already?

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Lest these hacks forget, no one in the media picked the Pistons to beat the Lakers either.
    Exactly. With all the "that Celtics/Pacers series was terrible, both these teams must suck" talk going on around here (Detroit), no one has mentioned that the same thing was said about the Pistons versus the Nets and the Pacers last year and was used to make the incredibly wrong prediction that the Pistons wouldn't make it to or past the ECF.

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Fool
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    Exactly. With all the "that Celtics/Pacers series was terrible, both these teams must suck" talk going on around here (Detroit), no one has mentioned that the same thing was said about the Pistons versus the Nets and the Pacers last year and was used to make the incredibly wrong prediction that the Pistons wouldn't make it to or past the ECF.
    Add that to the fact that no team in NBA history has ever had more motivation to win a playoff series than the Pacers have to win this one. If the Pacer players and coaches aren't saying it, they're lying. The Piston players have to realize it on their own and ratchet their game up accordingly to be successful.

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    The part about all the looks on the peoples faces was total crap. Everyone was throwing things they were all guilty and Detroit should be playing in front of an empty arena.
    Rob Parker is wrong to label all of the Pacers "thugs" when only Artest and Jackson went into the stands with malicious intent.

    Just the same, it's wrong to say all of Pistons fans were guilty when fewer than 20 of them actually threw anything.

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey
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    Rob Parker is wrong to label all of the Pacers "thugs" when only Artest and Jackson went into the stands with malicious intent.

    Just the same, it's wrong to say all of Pistons fans were guilty when fewer than 20 of them actually threw anything.
    Not to argue the main point that not all Pistons fans should be labeled the same, but the video sure looks like alot more people doing things they shouldn't than just 20.

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    • Chris McCosky: Don't get caught up in all the talk about the Pacers' motivation. Don't believe for a second that winning this series somehow means more to the Pacers than it does the Pistons. That's garbage. The events of Nov. 19 are in no way a factor in this series (other than the fact that Ron Artest is still suspended). When you pare this thing down to just basketball, it seems pretty cut and dry. The Pacers, amazingly resilient, are an aging and beat-up team. Their talent, their pride and the exceptional coaching of Rick Carlisle and Kevin O'Neill, will be good enough to get them one game. Pistons in five.
    Aging Other than Reg and Dale we have nobody over 30.

    I'm glad none of the so-called experts are giving us a chance. I think everyone is forgetting that last year Tins and JO were injured. You might say "But bread, they are injured this year also and we don't have Ron! All hope is lost!" This may be true, but the difference (aside from not having Ron) is that Tins and JO are healing and getting stronger this year. Last year they were in a lot worse shape than they are now. They are getting stronger the same way that Rashweed was getting stronger during the playoffs last year. Add that to the fact that...

    a) FJ seems to finally have his confidence back after his injury

    b) JJ is an X-factor we didn't have last year

    c) We are tougher in the middle with DD

    d) AJ is playing the best ball of his career

    e) Jax is the additional perimeter threat we needed against them last year

    I think we have as good or better chance of beating them this year than we did last year.


    Or maybe I'm just being a Suzy Sunshine.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    The last two were complete garbage. If people honestly believe that we are the same team as last year, and we are worse because we don't have Ronnie, they should pay attention. We are already better than last year, and if we had Ronnie, they would really get it.

    I don't agree with the Pistons in 5 stuff, but it will likely be 6, possibly 7, depending on if we play like game1 or game7 of last series.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Pretty wild.... so nobody expects the Pacers to win, only one person expects it to go to 7, and most expect it to go to 5?

    We can do better than that.
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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey
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    Rob Parker is wrong to label all of the Pacers "thugs" when only Artest and Jackson went into the stands with malicious intent.

    Just the same, it's wrong to say all of Pistons fans were guilty when fewer than 20 of them actually threw anything.
    Sorry bub but it was a hell of a lot more than 20 fans. Maybe 220.

    I agree that not all the fans are the problem. Actually the normal fan sitting in the lower bowl is not the problem. The problem happened when those people left and Detroit "security" didnt stop the thug criminal idiots from going down closer to the fans. The problem rests squarely with Detroit security and thats why they should be playing in front of any empty arena since they cant provide a safe place to play.

    I know you will try to claim they have fixed the problem but didnt Iverson just get hit with a coin?

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    Pretty wild.... so nobody expects the Pacers to win, only one person expects it to go to 7, and most expect it to go to 5?

    We can do better than that.
    These are Detroit mediots what do you expect them to say?

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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Here's another one. I don't remember Carlisle implying that he was proud of his players actions in the brawl.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7790491/

    Pacers face uphill fight without Artest
    Main man from Nov. 19 brawl missing from Pistons-Pacers

    COMMENTARY
    By Michael Rosenberg
    NBCSports.com contributor
    Updated: 10:49 a.m. ET May 9, 2005

    It's hard to believe, but just a few months ago, the Pistons and Pacers were the best thing going in the NBA.

    They had credibility: The Pistons were defending champs, the Pacers were coming off a 61-win season. They had an intriguing rivalry, with coaches who had each been on the other side.

    And they played the game, to quote Pistons coach Larry Brown, "the right way." In the wake of the Shaq-Kobe Divorce from Hell, the Pistons and Pacers were welcome old-school diversions.

    Then came the events in Auburn Hills, Mich. on Nov. 19. It was the one of the ugliest nights in American sports history. And the Pistons and the Pacers got rapped as the worst creatures in sports.

    "In the wake of Nov. 19 and all those excessive, repeated replays of all the ridiculous things that went on there that night, our guys got labeled as bad people and guys with low character," Pacers coach Rick Carlisle told the Indianapolis Star. "As I sit here today, I can tell you that I've never been any prouder to be around a group of guys, gentlemen, class people and high-character people, from Jermaine to Stephen Jackson, to (Jamaal) Tinsley to Reggie Miller, right on down."

    Like O'Neal and Jackson, Carlisle did not acquit himself well that night — he said he was "proud" of his players for how they handled the situation. Perhaps he was proud of how well they fought.

    But since then, well, the Pacers have been one of the most amazing stories in the NBA. They were 7-2 when they left the Palace that rainy November night. Without Ron Artest, O'Neal and Jackson, they still treaded water for a while, thanks largely to Carlisle's coaching. In early February, they were 20-24. Then they got hot, finished 44-38 and made the playoffs.

    The Pistons also had a brawl-induced hangover. On Christmas morning, they were 12-12. That afternoon, they won a much-hyped rematch with the Pacers in Indiana.

    And they are 46-17 since then, including a five-game first-round triumph over Philadelphia.

    "We've put that behind us," Pistons forward Antonio McDyess said of the brawl. "I don't know if they have or not."

    That screaming you hear is coming from Indianapolis. And it goes something like this:

    Hey, Antonio, how the hell can we put it behind us? We lost our best all-around player!

    That, of course, is the problem with this series. We can say it should be all about basketball. But once the players answer all the initial questions, and every angle of film has been replayed in super-slo-mo the requisite 370 times, and every pundit is done talking about the effect of the brawl on the situation in North Korea … well, once all that happens, Ron Artest will still be missing from the Pacers' lineup.

    And without Artest, the Pacers are looking at an uphill battle.

    How uphill? Like, straight up a cliff.

    To add to their misery, the Pacers are a mobile sports-injury exhibit. Over here, we have the Hamstring Section, starring Jamaal Tinsley. And that's the Shoulder Exhibition, featuring Jermaine O'Neal. And over there, that's the Knee Display, with Stephen Jackson.

    And on your way out, please step by the Varicose Veins Model, Reggie Miller.

    OK, we're kidding about that last one. Miller has played better than any 39-year-old shooting guard should. But the point is that the Pacers seem like a beaten team, even before tipoff of Game 1 Monday night.

    At least they have made peace with their life after the brawl.

    When Miller was asked about the brawl, he told the Star, "It's over for us."

    How do these teams feel about renewing their rivalry? Pretty good, actually. The Pacers have been clear that they welcome the challenge. And in the post-game locker room after the Pistons shoved the 76ers out of the playoffs, the sentiment was almost unanimous.

    The Pistons would be happy to play anybody. But they'd be happier to face their rivals. McDyess was the only dissenter.

    "I said I would rather play Boston," McDyess said, "but they said they would rather play Indiana because it's so much fun. They look up to the challenge. That's what gets us up."

    The tension between the teams has always been limited to fan-fan, or player-fan, or player-opposing coach (Carlisle rubbed some Pistons the wrong way.) But the only player-player tension was between Artest and Ben Wallace, and with Artest suspended of the series, that won't be an issue.

    O'Neal and Rasheed Wallace are buds. Chauncey Billups, the vocal leader of the Pistons, is friends with most of the Indiana team.

    "I don't think there is bad blood with nobody," Billups said.

    The only way to really move past the brawl is to play the series.

    You have to get it on before you can get it over with. It's time for Pacers-Pistons, the workingman's playoff series. Basketball so intimate, the teams can diagram each other's plays.

    Not that they'd want to.

    "Kind of boring," McDyess said of Indiana's style. "Kind of puts you to sleep. They slow down every play. Indiana kind of lulls you to sleep and gets wins."

    Sorry. Not this week. If there's one thing this series won't do, it's put people to sleep.

    Michael Rosenberg is a columnist for the Detroit Free Press. An archive of his columns can be found at http://www.freep.com/index/michaelrosenberg.htm

  21. #21
    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by dannyboy
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    Here's another one. I don't remember Carlisle implying that he was proud of his players actions in the brawl.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7790491/

    Pacers face uphill fight without Artest
    Main man from Nov. 19 brawl missing from Pistons-Pacers

    COMMENTARY
    By Michael Rosenberg
    NBCSports.com contributor
    Updated: 10:49 a.m. ET May 9, 2005

    It's hard to believe, but just a few months ago, the Pistons and Pacers were the best thing going in the NBA.

    They had credibility: The Pistons were defending champs, the Pacers were coming off a 61-win season. They had an intriguing rivalry, with coaches who had each been on the other side.

    And they played the game, to quote Pistons coach Larry Brown, "the right way." In the wake of the Shaq-Kobe Divorce from Hell, the Pistons and Pacers were welcome old-school diversions.

    Then came the events in Auburn Hills, Mich. on Nov. 19. It was the one of the ugliest nights in American sports history. And the Pistons and the Pacers got rapped as the worst creatures in sports.

    "In the wake of Nov. 19 and all those excessive, repeated replays of all the ridiculous things that went on there that night, our guys got labeled as bad people and guys with low character," Pacers coach Rick Carlisle told the Indianapolis Star. "As I sit here today, I can tell you that I've never been any prouder to be around a group of guys, gentlemen, class people and high-character people, from Jermaine to Stephen Jackson, to (Jamaal) Tinsley to Reggie Miller, right on down."

    Like O'Neal and Jackson, Carlisle did not acquit himself well that night — he said he was "proud" of his players for how they handled the situation. Perhaps he was proud of how well they fought.

    But since then, well, the Pacers have been one of the most amazing stories in the NBA. They were 7-2 when they left the Palace that rainy November night. Without Ron Artest, O'Neal and Jackson, they still treaded water for a while, thanks largely to Carlisle's coaching. In early February, they were 20-24. Then they got hot, finished 44-38 and made the playoffs.

    The Pistons also had a brawl-induced hangover. On Christmas morning, they were 12-12. That afternoon, they won a much-hyped rematch with the Pacers in Indiana.

    And they are 46-17 since then, including a five-game first-round triumph over Philadelphia.

    "We've put that behind us," Pistons forward Antonio McDyess said of the brawl. "I don't know if they have or not."

    That screaming you hear is coming from Indianapolis. And it goes something like this:

    Hey, Antonio, how the hell can we put it behind us? We lost our best all-around player!

    That, of course, is the problem with this series. We can say it should be all about basketball. But once the players answer all the initial questions, and every angle of film has been replayed in super-slo-mo the requisite 370 times, and every pundit is done talking about the effect of the brawl on the situation in North Korea … well, once all that happens, Ron Artest will still be missing from the Pacers' lineup.

    And without Artest, the Pacers are looking at an uphill battle.

    How uphill? Like, straight up a cliff.

    To add to their misery, the Pacers are a mobile sports-injury exhibit. Over here, we have the Hamstring Section, starring Jamaal Tinsley. And that's the Shoulder Exhibition, featuring Jermaine O'Neal. And over there, that's the Knee Display, with Stephen Jackson.

    And on your way out, please step by the Varicose Veins Model, Reggie Miller.

    OK, we're kidding about that last one. Miller has played better than any 39-year-old shooting guard should. But the point is that the Pacers seem like a beaten team, even before tipoff of Game 1 Monday night.

    At least they have made peace with their life after the brawl.

    When Miller was asked about the brawl, he told the Star, "It's over for us."

    How do these teams feel about renewing their rivalry? Pretty good, actually. The Pacers have been clear that they welcome the challenge. And in the post-game locker room after the Pistons shoved the 76ers out of the playoffs, the sentiment was almost unanimous.

    The Pistons would be happy to play anybody. But they'd be happier to face their rivals. McDyess was the only dissenter.

    "I said I would rather play Boston," McDyess said, "but they said they would rather play Indiana because it's so much fun. They look up to the challenge. That's what gets us up."

    The tension between the teams has always been limited to fan-fan, or player-fan, or player-opposing coach (Carlisle rubbed some Pistons the wrong way.) But the only player-player tension was between Artest and Ben Wallace, and with Artest suspended of the series, that won't be an issue.

    O'Neal and Rasheed Wallace are buds. Chauncey Billups, the vocal leader of the Pistons, is friends with most of the Indiana team.

    "I don't think there is bad blood with nobody," Billups said.

    The only way to really move past the brawl is to play the series.

    You have to get it on before you can get it over with. It's time for Pacers-Pistons, the workingman's playoff series. Basketball so intimate, the teams can diagram each other's plays.

    Not that they'd want to.

    "Kind of boring," McDyess said of Indiana's style. "Kind of puts you to sleep. They slow down every play. Indiana kind of lulls you to sleep and gets wins."

    Sorry. Not this week. If there's one thing this series won't do, it's put people to sleep.

    Michael Rosenberg is a columnist for the Detroit Free Press. An archive of his columns can be found at http://www.freep.com/index/michaelrosenberg.htm
    Just another example of how these "reporters" don't actually know anything about the Pacers. They still have Jamaal listed with last year's injury. Stephen Jackson is nothing but a scrub to them. These people truly think the JO is our only player worth being on the same floor as them.
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  22. #22
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Thanks UB,
    As if I didn't like the Pistons before, now I really don't like them. You'd think they were undefeated and going for their 4th straight title reading some of those predictions.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  23. #23
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Ya know, these hacks have done something nobody else has been able to do, make me wish Artest was playing. Just so he could rub their all-knowing smugness in the dirt they write.


    (Notice how they make winning in 6 even sound like a cakewalk)
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

  24. #24

    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Harddrive7
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    HUH?? I mean I realize that this is just one man's opinion...But DAMN! Are we aging already?
    Ummm......I thought that was an interesting quote too. Besides Reggie and Dale we have a very young team. Just because we don't play fast break ball all the time does not mean we are old. What a load of garbage.
    Dallas Clark>Tony Gonzalez

  25. #25
    woman without a team
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    Default Re: Maybe Ben Wallace now understands, 2 articles out of Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by shags
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    That 2nd article's one of the biggest piece of crap I've wasted my time reading. THIS is the type of thing the press needs to avoid writing. Calling the Pacers "thugs"? That's just stupid and wrong.
    At least I was smart enough not to read it.

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