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  1. #26
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Quote Originally Posted by DrFife View Post
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    I wouldn't call it "awful," but if Larry's already got something set up in that direction, perhaps we could get Brooklyn's #27 pick too. It's a short-term/medium-term thing: If PG's decision hinges on how competitive we are next year, I imagine he'd prefer a short-term upgrade to Lopez (with financial room to add another significant piece) than standing pat with Al, Monta and our pick.

    I think of all the scenario's put forth I think Lopez is a real possibility and maybe could get a late first somehow to pick up development player.
    Then the next year add some more to the mix. I could see this thing going either way.
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  2. #27
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    Gordon Hayward is an Indiana Boy. Played ball at an Indiana school, almost won an NCAA championship doing it. Soon he'll be an Indiana Man, just sayin... guys like that want to win it all for their home state. Its in his blood. No Hoosier with this talent level has ever been in his position to actually come back home and play for his state like Gordon Hayward. Jeff Teague just had a miserable season, and he still wants to be here.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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  4. #28
    THE FRANCHISE Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    hayward is going to boston or staying put.

  5. #29
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Gordon Hayward is an Indiana Boy. Played ball at an Indiana school, almost won an NCAA championship doing it. Soon he'll be an Indiana Man, just sayin... guys like that want to win it all for their home state. Its in his blood. No Hoosier with this talent level has ever been in his position to actually come back home and play for his state like Gordon Hayward. Jeff Teague just had a miserable season, and he still wants to be here.
    It's one thing to go back home to a city like Chicago or LA. Plenty of stars and history.

    If/when Pacers get a meeting with Hayward they can present the case of him being a hometown Hoosier hero forever if he teams up with PG and wins a chip. There's also the unfinished business angle with Butler. Not saying he leaves Utah, but Pacers have a shot with such an argument IMO.

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  7. #30
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
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    hayward is going to boston or staying put.
    Celtics and Lakers lead the league in "player X is coming here."

    I bet I can find almost every All Star with a Celtics jersey photoshopped on them just using Google.

    Last edited by freddielewis14; 04-27-2017 at 05:39 PM.

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  9. #31
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Celtics and Lakers lead the league in "player X is coming here."

    I bet I can find almost every All Star with a Celtics jersey photoshopped on them just using Google.


    Westbrook, Love, Lamarcus Aldridge, Demar Derozan, even Kevin Durant were all supposed to be Lakers by now.

  10. #32
    THE FRANCHISE Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Google all you want. He isn't going to Indiana. It's a nice dream though.

    Bookmark this thread come the summer so i can say i told you so. Stevens or Utah. Only options

  11. #33
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
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    Google all you want. He isn't going to Indiana. It's a nice dream though.

    Bookmark this thread come the summer so i can say i told you so. Stevens or Utah. Only options
    This is hilarious. Utah is by far the most likely option, and you're going to take credit for calling a guy staying with his team. Okay, I'll play that too: Bookmark this thread. Utah or Indiana for Hayward. Only options

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  13. #34
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Boston has a better shot at Hayward than Utah

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    Default Re: Build This Team

    It's so hard to do things like this, so I'll cop out with the easy answer: Anything and everything would be on the table for the Pacers this summer. I'd listen to PG offers, I'd listen to Myles offers, I'd dangle our first round pick, I'd try to frame McMedium for a murder, everything. Ye olde "no sacred cows" type of philosophy.

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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
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    Boston has a better shot at Hayward than Utah
    It's fine if you believe that. I disagree.

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  19. #37
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Hearing Celtics fans utter the words "Hayward" and "Brad Stevens" so much hurts. Out of all the teams, why'd he have to end up... there?
    It's OG or bust

  20. #38
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Phase One - Who to keep?

    From the guys whose contracts are up or unguaranteed I would keep (at this point) : Seraphin, Xmas, JoeYoung, Niang & GRIII. At this point, C.J. Miles cap hold of $ 8,708,555 also stays. Teague, Lavoy, Brooks are gone. Stretch provision is used on Al Jefferson. We are left with 10 players under contract (for about 62,5 million) + C.J.'s cap hold + 1st round draft pick cap hold = $ 73,098,728. On the other words, we have 28 million left for free agency.


    Phase Two - Get a point guard out of free agency

    Offer an "unbeatable" package for Holiday-bros. Jrue would get an average 21,777 mil for 4 years with a starting salary of 20,4 mil + max annual raises, Justin 7,5 mil for 2 years. They want to play together and get Justin his 1st "true" NBA contract. We have a chance and even a reason to facilitate both needs...


    Phase Three - Initiate a trade with Utah

    I expect Hayward to stay - he may actually be selected All-NBA 3rd team this season (I would give about 20 % odds) which would close the deal (Super-MAX). If he bolts for BOS, Utah will be in a great position to become Number One negotiation partner for Butler's services (in case situation in Chicago have to be blown).

    However, Utah has another player whom we absolutely could use... Derrick Favors has fallen out of favor () in line-ups as he just doesn't work out too well Gobert (too little space). However, he is exactly the physical PF (and good one) to pair with Turner to solve our interior weakness. He makes just 12 mil for next year (and is UFA after that) so it is not a necessity for Jazz to move him...

    BUT we could also agree to take Alec Burks out of their hands in the same deal! Utah has completely soured on him (for reason), but at least he is young, "dynamic" (that's for Grimp) and can give an occasional point outburst. Taking him as a cost should close a deal...

    So : we trade Thaddeus Young, Joe Young & Georges Niang for Derrick Favors & Alec Burks.

    Utah should be willing to do this 'cause 1) they save 5 mil, 2) they get rid of "unwanted" in Burks, 3) Thad is actually a great fit next to imposing center like Gobert.

    (this is why I held to Niang and Joey at the 1st phase. We needed their contracts to facilitate this trade under CBA rules. Utah can as well just waive them immediately after.)


    Phase Four - Possibly re-sign C.J.Miles (if price is acceptable)

    After previous dealings we would now have 12 contracted players (incl. 1st-round draftee) and total salary at $ 106,263,893. If we would reach a sensible deal to re-sign CJ under the luxury tax threshold we could still easily do it - even at around 12,5 mil. I'm lukewarm about that idea and probably would rather test minimum wage NBDL'ers instead (including our own 2nd-rounder). But re-signing Miles would be a realistic option!


    End product :

    Now - the line-up looks like this :

    Starters : Jrue Holiday-Lance Stephenson-Paul George-Derrick Favors-Myles Turner / voilá, our defensive identity is back!

    Back-ups :
    Monta (as PG only)
    Wings : GRIII, Justin Holiday, Burks, (put Miles here if you want to keep him)
    Frontcourt : Seraphin, Xmas

    Two of our Mad Ants would fit here fine : Poythress as small-ball PF option & Julyan Stone as same-style/same-size back-up point guard to Jrue.

    Draft Strategy :

    Two ways to go here :

    1) Trying to move up (even if losing one future 1st-rounder) to get a point guard for the future in Dennis Smith or Frank Ntilikina (at least one should be available at Sacto-range) is enticing. I would go for it.

    2) If it fails, then take a project big (Ivan Rabb, Anzejs Pasecniks, Harry Giles).


    Final conclusion :

    Assuming we failed to move up in a draft we would have :

    PG : Jrue Holiday, Monta Ellis, Julyan Stone
    SG : Lance Stephenson, Justin Holiday, Alec Burks
    SF : Paul George, Glenn Robinson III
    PF : Derrick Favors, Alex Poythress, Rakeem Christmas
    C : Myles Turner, Kevin Seraphin, Anzejs Pasecniks

    One spot open for testing 10-day contracts to find a "hidden gem". I believe that is a 50-win, home court advantage line-up (if healthy)... Then just pray that Lebron becomes mortal.


    edit : Having 22 million on the books in short contracts of Monta + Burks (expendables) would enable us to also work as a trade partner if f ex Nicolas Batum/Victor Oladipo becomes available as their teams go to re-build. That would be something to consider on-season.

    edit 2 : stretch provision money to Al Jefferson is calculated into all those salary figures. Forgot to mention that!
    Last edited by PetPaima; 04-28-2017 at 07:49 AM.

  21. #39
    Member Downtown Bang!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Short of PG flat out saying he is gone I absolutely go with the build around our star approach.

    Want no part of Lopez or Melo.

    Wouldn't trade the first unless it meant clearing cap space for a Hayward type FA acquisition or helped complete a trade to a cap challenged team for solid young player like Favors or Crabbe.

    Find a solid wing to compliment PG using the cap space via trade or free agency, draft a PF, sign Teague to a reasonable extension.......low odds for anything more splashy and the team would improve.

    Incremental improvement works and Bird sorely lost site of that the past three off seasons

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  23. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetPaima View Post
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    Phase One - Who to keep?

    From the guys whose contracts are up or unguaranteed I would keep (at this point) : Seraphin, Xmas, JoeYoung, Niang & GRIII. At this point, C.J. Miles cap hold of $ 8,708,555 also stays. Teague, Lavoy, Brooks are gone. Stretch provision is used on Al Jefferson. We are left with 10 players under contract (for about 62,5 million) + C.J.'s cap hold + 1st round draft pick cap hold = $ 73,098,728. On the other words, we have 28 million left for free agency.


    Phase Two - Get a point guard out of free agency

    Offer an "unbeatable" package for Holiday-bros. Jrue would get an average 21,777 mil for 4 years with a starting salary of 20,4 mil + max annual raises, Justin 7,5 mil for 2 years. They want to play together and get Justin his 1st "true" NBA contract. We have a chance and even a reason to facilitate both needs...


    Phase Three - Initiate a trade with Utah

    I expect Hayward to stay - he may actually be selected All-NBA 3rd team this season (I would give about 20 % odds) which would close the deal (Super-MAX). If he bolts for BOS, Utah will be in a great position to become Number One negotiation partner for Butler's services (in case situation in Chicago have to be blown).

    However, Utah has another player whom we absolutely could use... Derrick Favors has fallen out of favor () in line-ups as he just doesn't work out too well Gobert (too little space). However, he is exactly the physical PF (and good one) to pair with Turner to solve our interior weakness. He makes just 12 mil for next year (and is UFA after that) so it is not a necessity for Jazz to move him...

    BUT we could also agree to take Alec Burks out of their hands in the same deal! Utah has completely soured on him (for reason), but at least he is young, "dynamic" (that's for Grimp) and can give an occasional point outburst. Taking him as a cost should close a deal...

    So : we trade Thaddeus Young, Joe Young & Georges Niang for Derrick Favors & Alec Burks.

    Utah should be willing to do this 'cause 1) they save 5 mil, 2) they get rid of "unwanted" in Burks, 3) Thad is actually a great fit next to imposing center like Gobert.

    (this is why I held to Niang and Joey at the 1st phase. We needed their contracts to facilitate this trade under CBA rules. Utah can as well just waive them immediately after.)


    Phase Four - Possibly re-sign C.J.Miles (if price is acceptable)

    After previous dealings we would now have 12 contracted players (incl. 1st-round draftee) and total salary at $ 106,263,893. If we would reach a sensible deal to re-sign CJ under the luxury tax threshold we could still easily do it - even at around 12,5 mil. I'm lukewarm about that idea and probably would rather test minimum wage NBDL'ers instead (including our own 2nd-rounder). But re-signing Miles would be a realistic option!


    End product :

    Now - the line-up looks like this :

    Starters : Jrue Holiday-Lance Stephenson-Paul George-Derrick Favors-Myles Turner / voilá, our defensive identity is back!

    Back-ups :
    Monta (as PG only)
    Wings : GRIII, Justin Holiday, Burks, (put Miles here if you want to keep him)
    Frontcourt : Seraphin, Xmas

    Two of our Mad Ants would fit here fine : Poythress as small-ball PF option & Julyan Stone as same-style/same-size back-up point guard to Jrue.

    Draft Strategy :

    Two ways to go here :

    1) Trying to move up (even if losing one future 1st-rounder) to get a point guard for the future in Dennis Smith or Frank Ntilikina (at least one should be available at Sacto-range) is enticing. I would go for it.

    2) If it fails, then take a project big (Ivan Rabb, Anzejs Pasecniks, Harry Giles).


    Final conclusion :

    Assuming we failed to move up in a draft we would have :

    PG : Jrue Holiday, Monta Ellis, Julyan Stone
    SG : Lance Stephenson, Justin Holiday, Alec Burks
    SF : Paul George, Glenn Robinson III
    PF : Derrick Favors, Alex Poythress, Rakeem Christmas
    C : Myles Turner, Kevin Seraphin, Anzejs Pasecniks

    One spot open for testing 10-day contracts to find a "hidden gem". I believe that is a 50-win, home court advantage line-up (if healthy)... Then just pray that Lebron becomes mortal.


    edit : Having 22 million on the books in short contracts of Monta + Burks (expendables) would enable us to also work as a trade partner if f ex Nicolas Batum/Victor Oladipo becomes available as their teams go to re-build. That would be something to consider on-season.

    edit 2 : stretch provision money to Al Jefferson is calculated into all those salary figures. Forgot to mention that!

    So if they do not move up in the draft who are the Pacers taking at 18?
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  24. #41
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    So if they do not move up in the draft who are the Pacers taking at 18?
    I would take Pasecniks (as it says little below in a roster), I'd be fine with Rabb and I'd be intrigued (yet highly risky move due to health concerns) with Giles.

    I don't want us to take a non-athletic nor a small shooting guard (f ex Luke Kennard or Donovan Mitchell). I don't trust Justin Patton and T.J. Leaf. Patton may once become a very good NBA player, but it is for his 2nd or 3rd team (like Whiteside). Leaf is "meh".

    I would also strongly consider trying to make a side-trade with Utah giving up our #18 for their #24 and #30. That could net us both a project with high ceiling (Pasecniks/Rabb/Giles/Bam Adebayo) + a player with instant results (lower ceiling) in Caleb Swanigan or Mathias Lessort.

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  26. #42
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Do the Pacers have a second round pick?
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  27. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    Do the Pacers have a second round pick?
    Yes, vwe do at # 48. We owe one 2nd-rounder to Brooklyn but it only conveys when we drop to lottery (or eventually in year 2023).

  28. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetPaima View Post
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    Yes, vwe do at # 48. We owe one 2nd-rounder to Brooklyn but it only conveys when we drop to lottery (or eventually in year 2023).
    Cool. So get Nigel Hayes. :-) or another player and maybe he can be picked up as a free agent

    This team needs defenders to help against Lebron. OG and/or Nigel both.

    I put up some video of Semi Ojeleye in the draft thread. I am very impressed with him.
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  29. #45
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    My idea:


    Trade Al Jefferson and a future 1st (2019 or 2020) to Portland for Alan Crabbe plus the 20th pick and the 26th pick. That gives us 3 1st round picks this Summer: Our 18th pick, Portland's 20th and our 26th pick. Portland would dump a lot of salary in this deal and upon receiving Al they could just waive and stretch provision him and the $13 mil left on his deal. Or we could waive and stretch Al ourselves and still do the deal with Portland. Take back Crabbe, plus picks 20 and 26. Portland is just $4,400 over the luxury tax line right now. But CJ McCollum's salary jumps from $3 mil to about $26 mil next season. Thus pushing them far over the tax. CJ then gets annual raises in 2018, and 2019!

    Trade Monta to Memphis for a future 2nd rounder. Memphis has Z-bo, Vince Carter and Tony Allen coming off their books this Summer. That would give them enough space to take the hometown boy Monta, and his expiring in a trade.

    Convince Paul to sign for the new cap extension. Not the All-NBA $200 mil extension. Convince Teague to sign for $16 or 18 mil per year for 3 years. Team option on the 4th. We use our remaining cap space to make a run at Hayward. Gordon would start moving Crabbe to the bench. I'd then trade the future 2nd rounder acquired from Memphis, for Nick Young and his remaining 1 year $5.5 mil from the Lakers. I'd sign Alex Pothyress and Ben Bentil to cheap deals to fill out the roster.

    With picks 18, 20, and 26... we draft Terrance Ferguson, Og Anunoby (or Caleb Swanigan), and Donovan Mitchell.



    That gives us:

    Thad
    Hayward
    Myles
    Paul
    Teague

    Young
    GR3
    Seraphin
    Crabbe
    Lance

    Ferguson
    OG or Caleb
    Mitchell
    Christmas
    Pothyress
    Bentil
    Do you understand that there is no way to open enough cap space to both make that trade for Crabbe and throw a max free agent offer to Hayward. Both things would need to happen under the cap and they cost $ 47,5 million put together.

    PG (current salary, not extension)+Thad+Teague's cap hold+Myles+GRIII+Lance+our own draft pick cost $ 56 million (out of charity I even omitted Xmas, Seraphin & utopic Portland draft picks from equation). Still, we would need to add 5 imaginary minimum rookie salaries just to have the 12-man minimum number.

    So even with dumping Monta for no salary (dream on...) and letting C.J. / Lavoy / Brooks / JoeYoung / Niang / Xmas / Seraphin all go, we would still be some 6 million dollars short of cap space to pull of your Crabbe/Hayward -combo.

    This solution does NOT work...


    Edit : The trade for Crabbe CAN happen above the cap if we ship out minimum of 13,5 million of salaries ourselves. That would mean 4-to-1 trade including AlJeff, Seraphin, JoeYoung & Niang for Crabbe. However, 1) it would have to happen AFTER we already signed Hayward. Rules don't bend other way around... 2) it would require Portland to open roster spots for all 4 despite instantly waiving 3 and stretching 4th. Given that they have full roster right now WITHOUT spots for draft picks either they would need to pre-waive all four of Ezeli/Connaughton/Layman/Quarterman... After this trade would open several roster spots, Portland would gladly keep all their draft picks so you can forget about acquiring those.

    All in all - Grimp's idea can work (sans additional draft picks) as long as the running order is
    1) let Lavoy's option expire, renounce CJ & Brooks
    2) trade Monta with no salary coming back (maybe Monta + distant 1st for a 2nd-rounder)
    3) sign Hayward to standard max.contract
    4) complete trade for Crabbe as specified above
    5) sign Teague, possibly extend PG

    This way we could do it all, but it still requires no less than 3 separate partners (Portland, Hayward, whomever takes Monta) to go nuts and make non-sensical deals with us.
    Last edited by PetPaima; 04-28-2017 at 07:39 PM.

  30. #46
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    While people are lobbying to trade for CJ, McCollum going after PG...

    Should the Trail Blazers go after Pacers star Paul George? CJ McCollum says yes

    http://nba.nbcsports.com/2017/04/27/...gency-twitter/

  31. #47

    Default Re: Build This Team

    I've been a proponent of trading PG for awhile. I just just don't see him as a good teammate. He's incredibly talented, but I don't like his attitude. He wants to control of the ball/offense, if he dribbles more than 3 times in the half court he takes a contested shot or makes a questionable pass. That being said I'm not crazy about any of the packages we'd get back on a trade from the Lakers or Celtics, more importantly I don't see Larry giving him up unless Paul gives him an ultimatum. So in here are my thoughts on this summer.
    Paul had a great point about not having winners on the roster. I think that's on of the reasons for the Lance Effect.
    Our Defence was atrocious.
    I think continuity is extremely important.

    Here are my suggestions.

    Trade
    Jefferson and Ellis and our first to Phoenix for Tyson Chandler and Jarred Dudley and there 2nd round pick.
    Sign Deron Williams
    Draft a Center and Shooting Guard with 2nd round pics
    Resign Teague

    Roster looks like this

    Chandler/Seraphin/2nd round pic
    Turner/young/Christmas
    George/Dudley/Niang
    Robinson/Stephenson/2nd round pic
    Teague/Williams/Young

    I think Chandler is the perfect fit next to Turner, he's competed for championships, led Defenses and can rebound the hell out the ball. I think with Chandler/Turner/Young and Seraphin that's a versatile group and can match up with just about any team.

    I've never been a huge fan of Deron Williams, but he's been there and hit countless big shots. I think he'd pair nicely with Lance on the second unit.

    I think our second unit would be very strong and versatile.

    I would love to get a great starting SG, but those are really rare and the best FA this summer would be Reddick or Iggudala.
    Both would have been great 5 years ago and don't think we'd get them anyway.

  32. #48
    Member jrwannabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    While people are lobbying to trade for CJ, McCollum going after PG...
    Crabbe, Leanard, Ed Davis plus their 2 first? Um.... pass. Better deals out there

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  34. #49
    13/31 Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Celtics and Lakers lead the league in "player X is coming here."

    I bet I can find almost every All Star with a Celtics jersey photoshopped on them just using Google.

    You are a bad person.


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    13/31 Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Build This Team

    If PG gets All-NBA and Hayward doesn't, I'd go hard after Hayward, work out a deal for Derrick Favors, and draft Swanigan.


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    2007 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS & 2010 AFC CHAMPIONS

    1940, 1953, 1976, 1981, & 1987 NCAA CHAMPIONS & 2002 NCAA FINALISTS
    1970, 1972, & 1973 ABA CHAMPIONS & 2000 NBA EASTERN CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS

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