Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 154

Thread: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

  1. #76
    T-A-M-P-E-R-I-N-G TMJ31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,442
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Solomon Hill was, is, and will continue to be garbage. Only thing he'd be doing here is make people ask why Nate won't play GR3 over him
    But during the lengthy stretches of time when Rodney was down, we lacked ANY defensive prowess at the 2 aside from GR3 who was (and still is) growing into his role, he could have made a HUGE difference for us.

    He doesn't need the ball. He isn't out there looking to average double figures every night. But he could play some Defense. And our bench and at times starting units *REALLY* needed that this season.

    Larry let him walk when we could have had him for the NBA ---> Real life person financial equivalent of a McChicken Sandwich. Am I saying we should have kept him PAST this season? Probably not, although we will never know how he would have performed with this team. But Solo is a case where *both* at the time and in hindsight, it was extremely foolish to let him walk.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to TMJ31 For This Useful Post:


  3. #77

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Larry let him walk ..............
    I'm still of the opinion that not picking up his option was the kick in the *** he needed to get his body and game in any sort of shape. If Bird had picked up his option, I don't think he would have played as well as he did last year (which is still nothing spectacular, but I digress .......).

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to PacerDude For This Useful Post:


  5. #78
    Member ksuttonjr76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Posts
    5,599

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    As I've explained on this board 100 times, you don't have to know how Kawhi will turn out to know that was a bad trade. I called it then and I've always been right and it's really simple as to why:

    George Hill has always had a 0% chance of being the sort of game changer that causes a team to be a title contender.
    Player X where X is the draft pick, in this case Kawhi, has a greater than 0% chance of being that sort of player.

    When you are a team like the Indiana Pacers, a team that will never be able to sign a top free agent, a team that 100% has to acquire their best talent through the draft, you know what you don't do? Give away draft picks for middling players. That's a play that ensures your ceiling is somewhere below champion, always.
    We had what we thought was a healthy Danny Granger at the time. Kawhi was redundant, and Indiana needed a defensive PG.

    Hill
    George
    Granger
    West
    Hibbert

    Would have been one hell of a starting 5 if Granger never goes down. You're using hindsight on the trade.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

  6. #79
    T-A-M-P-E-R-I-N-G TMJ31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,442
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm still of the opinion that not picking up his option was the kick in the *** he needed to get his body and game in any sort of shape. If Bird had picked up his option, I don't think he would have played as well as he did last year (which is still nothing spectacular, but I digress .......).
    I think that's a valid point to throw out there. But from the perspective of building a team, as the GM it was just really, really dumb.

    Worst case scenario (which I don't think would have occurred) - we trade his tiny expiring contract for a future 2nd rounder or something if he would have come in this year not in shape or buying into the system. Or use him as filler in a small/mid level deal.

    Literally there were only two reasons I can think of that Larry would choose not to pick up the option. 1) He was a locker room cancer OR 2) He felt he had ZERO value to us in ANY capacity and would rather have Joe Young sitting as the 15th man. That's it.

    Massive blunder.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TMJ31 For This Useful Post:


  8. #80
    Member ksuttonjr76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Posts
    5,599

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think that's a valid point to throw out there. But from the perspective of building a team, as the GM it was just really, really dumb.

    Worst case scenario (which I don't think would have occurred) - we trade his tiny expiring contract for a future 2nd rounder or something if he would have come in this year not in shape or buying into the system. Or use him as filler in a small/mid level deal.

    Literally there were only two reasons I can think of that Larry would choose not to pick up the option. 1) He was a locker room cancer OR 2) He felt he had ZERO value to us in ANY capacity and would rather have Joe Young sitting as the 15th man. That's it.

    Massive blunder.
    Nah...Bird did right by not picking up his option.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

  9. #81
    T-A-M-P-E-R-I-N-G TMJ31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,442
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Nah...Bird did right by not picking up his option.
    It's cool. You're entitled to that opinion, and maybe you're right. There's honestly no real way for us to *know* for certain.

    But I think it was absolutely stupid and shortsighted. Especially since he went all out and got Teague/Jefferson/Young this summer. Keeping a low $ guy like Solo for a "swing for the fences" type season makes WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more sense than just letting him walk away. But what do I know?

  10. #82
    Big Daddy PaulGeorgeHill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Connersville Indiana
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,829
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Honestly, I would have rather picked up Solo's option and had him play backup center than to have signed Al Jeff.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

  11. #83
    T-A-M-P-E-R-I-N-G TMJ31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,442
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulGeorgeHill View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Honestly, I would have rather picked up Solo's option and had him play backup center than to have signed Al Jeff.
    Yep. Like I've been saying: Always loved Al's game. And he's a great teammate, etc. But the modern NBA has largely passed up the Jefferson's and the Hibbert's and so forth. Only a very elite (and IN PEAK SHAPE FOR THEIR BODY TYPE) few of those types of players can be effective any more.

    Sooooo... Yeah.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to TMJ31 For This Useful Post:


  13. #84
    Some Guy
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Little Rock, AR
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,777

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We had what we thought was a healthy Danny Granger at the time. Kawhi was redundant, and Indiana needed a defensive PG.

    Hill
    George
    Granger
    West
    Hibbert

    Would have been one hell of a starting 5 if Granger never goes down. You're using hindsight on the trade.
    I'm not using hindsight, go look at my post history, I was against it then AT THAT VERY MOMENT. People on this board need to stop assuming that because they have no foresight that no one can ever have any foresight. I'm not going to say I'm always right, or even most the time right, but on these two matters I certainly was. Hell I was even against giving Hill his extension after the trade. I never believed in that team.

  14. #85
    Member Grimp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    10,444

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by BornIndy07 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I knew Pacers should have drafted Draymond Green too. Who did they draft that year?

    I was pretty pissed when they didn't draft Perry Jones cause he was supposed to be #1 pick at one point lol. But he isn't even in the league anymore
    We chose Miles Plumlee over Draymond in that draft. Miles was traded later to Phoenix, who traded him to Milwaukee, who traded him this season to Charlotte.

  15. #86
    Member Grimp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    10,444

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's not Larry's fault, for example, the NBA passing Roy by. It is Larry's fault however of not having the slightest clue on how to piece together a roster that has any semblance of balance on either side of the ball.

    West wanting to move on isn't something he can control. Building a roster that can't defend, can't shoot, and can't rebound falls sqaurely on Bird's shoulders.

    Reading people defend Larry when the moves Larry made clearly don't meet the standards Larry laid out for his chosen squad is and always will be hilarious.

    The only thing that saved this from happening sooner is the fact he had a core that would have been criminal to touch during their ECFs runs. But his inability to piece together even an average bench at the time was a preview of what was to come with the full roster.

    We always got the "well Dan Burke is the true genius of defense" and "giving up wide open 3s is the strategy" and some point in time reality needs to set in that the roster we've seen for two years and the benches we've seen for 6-7 is the fault of the guy in charge. After a certain point when it happens over and over we just need to realize Larry struggles with team building, which is really his whole job.


    But isn't that why Kevin Pritchard was hired? To give Larry that younger guy advice on modern day NBA talent?

  16. #87
    2014 IKL Champion DrBadd01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    United States.
    Posts
    2,413

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Larry Bird is the worst GM in the League. He has completely ruined the Pacers and needs to be fired. that is all.
    PACER FAN ON STRIKE!!!-The moment the Pacers fire Larry Bird I will cheer for them again.

  17. #88

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    I could put so many things at Bird's feet, but his allergy to point guards that finally caused him to relent and purport Jeff Teague as THE ANSWER (at the cost of, ironically, the one player who could allow him to not really have a true point guard and mostly get away with it) will always stick out to me as his most glaring flaw when you look at the totality of his time here.

  18. #89

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    It is hilarious the people who are blaming Bird. That guy who drafted Paul, drafted Turner and just resigned Lance to spark this team enough to outplay the defending champs for 1.5/3 games. Is McMillan to blame and was he a bad hire? Yes. But Vogel wasn't as good as everyone thinks. How the Magic doing in the playoffs?

  19. #90

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by brownjake43 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It is hilarious the people who are blaming Bird. That guy who drafted Paul, drafted Turner and just resigned Lance to spark this team enough to outplay the defending champs for 1.5/3 games. Is McMillan to blame and was he a bad hire? Yes. But Vogel wasn't as good as everyone thinks. How the Magic doing in the playoffs?
    Blaming Bird because he has a lot of crap parts on the roster. Yes, Nate is a boring retread coach. But what the hell is anyone gonna do with Monta Ellis? With the joke 2 guard options this team has? With Myles Turner when he's playing this garbage? With no board presence whatsoever?

  20. #91

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by brownjake43 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It is hilarious the people who are blaming Bird. That guy who drafted Paul, drafted Turner and just resigned Lance to spark this team enough to outplay the defending champs for 1.5/3 games. Is McMillan to blame and was he a bad hire? Yes. But Vogel wasn't as good as everyone thinks. How the Magic doing in the playoffs?

    As someone who was okay with Vogel being fired it means nothing if Bird is still around. McMillan is worse than Vogel obviously but the main constant is Bird he hasn't been completely terrible but he also should bear the brunt of this instead of doing a thorough coaching search he went for the laziest uninspiring option in Nate. He should be trashed for that.

  21. #92
    Member Grimp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    10,444

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by brownjake43 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It is hilarious the people who are blaming Bird. That guy who drafted Paul, drafted Turner and just resigned Lance to spark this team enough to outplay the defending champs for 1.5/3 games. Is McMillan to blame and was he a bad hire? Yes. But Vogel wasn't as good as everyone thinks. How the Magic doing in the playoffs?
    I will NEVER forgive him for trading Kwahi until one of Gordon Hayward, Jimmy Butler or Blake Griffin are in a Pacers uniform.

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Grimp For This Useful Post:


  23. #93
    Member PR07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6,637

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    The Al Jefferson signing is killing us right now. We've got a 21 year old center who goes from hot to cold like a rough shower, and Kevin Seraphin (who while has played well) is probably your 3rd-string center on a good team. The team also seems to play worse with Monta Ellis on the floor.

  24. #94
    Member Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    26,522

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Literally there were only two reasons I can think of that Larry would choose not to pick up the option. 1) He was a locker room cancer OR 2) He felt he had ZERO value to us in ANY capacity and would rather have Joe Young sitting as the 15th man. That's it.

    Massive blunder.
    There's also a third reason. Larry wasn't the one who picked Solomon Hill in the draft. Simply put, he wasn't his guy and that's why he didn't want him here.
    Last edited by Nuntius; 04-20-2017 at 10:26 PM. Reason: I initially wrote roster instead of reason. I cannot into words tonight :(
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishPacer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Empty vessels make the most noise.

  25. #95
    Blow it up BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    23,219

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There's also a third roster. Larry wasn't the one who picked Solomon Hill in the draft. Simply put, he wasn't his guy and that's why he didn't want him here.
    That is no surprise. Bird has picked pretty good in the draft.

  26. #96
    Member PR07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6,637

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Yeah, free agency has been mostly bad for Bird (Ellis, Jefferson outweigh David West), but he's done actually really well in the NBA Draft by finding George, Turner, and Stephenson (and even Hibbert) at certain spots.

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to PR07 For This Useful Post:


  28. #97
    Member Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    26,522

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by brownjake43 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It is hilarious the people who are blaming Bird. That guy who drafted Paul, drafted Turner and just resigned Lance to spark this team enough to outplay the defending champs for 1.5/3 games. Is McMillan to blame and was he a bad hire? Yes. But Vogel wasn't as good as everyone thinks. How the Magic doing in the playoffs?
    Hold it right there. No one in this forum has ever doubted Bird's drafting ability. I'm probably Bird's biggest critic on this forum and I always credit him for his drafting ability. He can draft like no one else. The problem is with his ability to put together a roster that makes freaking sense. He fell in love with "pace and space" after our ECF squad collapsed and has put together crappy rosters for two seasons in a row. He absolutely deserves all the blame he's getting.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishPacer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Empty vessels make the most noise.

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Nuntius For This Useful Post:


  30. #98

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Nuntius View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Hold it right there. No one in this forum has ever doubted Bird's drafting ability. I'm probably Bird's biggest critic on this forum and I always credit him for his drafting ability. He can draft like no one else. The problem is with his ability to put together a roster that makes freaking sense. He fell in love with "pace and space" after our ECF squad collapsed and has put together crappy rosters for two seasons in a row. He absolutely deserves all the blame he's getting.
    Interestingly enough this "crappy" roster has outplayed the defending champs for half the series so far and have just lost all the games due to coaching. Who I'll give you, Larry did hire.

  31. #99
    Member Nuntius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in Southern Europe
    Posts
    26,522

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by brownjake43 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Interestingly enough this "crappy" roster has outplayed the defending champs for half the series so far and have just lost all the games due to coaching. Who I'll give you, Larry did hire.
    Due to a coach that Larry handpicked without even interviewing anyone else. Look, I'm not trying to say that McMillan isn't a below average coach. He definitely is. He definitely deserves part of the blame. But we have to remember that the only reason that McMillan is coaching this team is because Bird wanted a coach who would do what he told him. He didn't want a real coach. He wanted a figurehead.
    Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
    Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

    Panopticon

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishPacer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Empty vessels make the most noise.

  32. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Nuntius For This Useful Post:


  33. #100
    Member PR07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6,637

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Larry Bird Ruined The Indiana Pacers

    Yeah, I mean last season after getting our butts handed to us on the glass and boards by Valancuinas and Biyombo, we counter with Al Jefferson--who's so good, he's not even playable in this series while also losing Mahinmi.

  34. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to PR07 For This Useful Post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •