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Thread: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

  1. #176

    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by perryb85 View Post
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    There are a few reasons driving in the bonus works. One would be you make the defense make a decision. Take the foul or give up an easy shot. How many times have we seen our guys basically give up a basket because if they got another foul they would be pulled?

    Another would be putting the team in foul trouble causing them to go away from whatever their gameplan is. If Lebron has 4 fouls, you think he is gonna be put on PG? No they are going to hide him on D to save him from his 5th.

    Still another would be that you don't have to make the shot to get fouled. When you are having trouble scoring, whats the best remedy? Seeing the ball go into the basket. Whats easier for most then a free throw. Not a 20 foot contested fade away. See exhibit A. We scored, what maybe 4-5 points in the last 5 minutes of the 3rd quarter while the Cavs went on their scoring run? Lance drives the ball with like 20 seconds to go, scores a layup and gets an and one.

    Using the strategy of driving the ball more after the bonus, its possible we aren't down by 18 points going into the 4th. Maybe we are down by 10 or even 12.
    On your first point, absolutely. Driving at people who are in foul trouble can be a great strategy because as you said it forces decisions. But that is not really related to if a team is in the bonus or not. Teams can be in foul trouble without the other team being in the bonus in a certain quarter, and teams can be in the bonus and not have anybody on the other team in foul trouble (which I believe was the case last night).

    Your second point is also true about wanting to get easier shots. But that also has little to do with the bonus because if you get fouled driving, you almost always go the line whether you are in the bonus or not.

    Basically there are benefits to driving (getting to the foul line, getting easier shots, getting teams in foul trouble, etc.) and there are benefits to being in the bonus (going to the line on loose ball fouls, fouls holding on screens, fouls 30 feet from the basket, etc) but those benefits are almost mutually exclusive. Being in the bonus doesn't really make driving any better.

  2. #177
    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by I Love P View Post
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    Pacers are 3-point underdogs on Thursday. Put your checking account & savings account on the Pacers.

    BLF is gonna be rocking. Unlike The Q
    Lebron typically plays very well at BLF in the playoffs

  3. #178
    Member vnzla81's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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  5. #179
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I was highly complimentary of Lance after game 1. So I am going to be critical of him after game 2. The game plan was to front Love. Thad did it when he guarded him, but Lance did not, plus Lance was getting beat down the court by Love.

    As Nate said after the game (amazing what you learn when you watch the after game stuff) because Irving was killing us first part of the third quarter they switched PG onto Irving to try to slow him down, and they thought Lance could keep Love under control. And yes for the first time I must say Lance's body language was bad in this game

    Bottomline is the Pacers defense has no answers for the Cavs offense especially in Cleveland and I think to blame Nate for this is just wrong. Only Thad and PG are doing a decent job, everyone else's defense has been bad - no matter what strategy they try and pacers have tried everything possible - nothing has worked. They need three PGs and two Thads and then we might be on to something
    This is why in the off-season the Pacers need to get some strong, mobile 6'8" guys who do not necessarily score well. They need to be able to defend.
    The Pacers need 2 such players like I described.
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    This is why in the off-season the Pacers need to get some strong, mobile 6'8" guys who do not necessarily score well. They need to be able to defend.
    The Pacers need 2 such players like I described.
    Who do you have in mind?

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  8. #181
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    On your first point, absolutely. Driving at people who are in foul trouble can be a great strategy because as you said it forces decisions. But that is not really related to if a team is in the bonus or not. Teams can be in foul trouble without the other team being in the bonus in a certain quarter, and teams can be in the bonus and not have anybody on the other team in foul trouble (which I believe was the case last night).

    Your second point is also true about wanting to get easier shots. But that also has little to do with the bonus because if you get fouled driving, you almost always go the line whether you are in the bonus or not.

    Basically there are benefits to driving (getting to the foul line, getting easier shots, getting teams in foul trouble, etc.) and there are benefits to being in the bonus (going to the line on loose ball fouls, fouls holding on screens, fouls 30 feet from the basket, etc) but those benefits are almost mutually exclusive. Being in the bonus doesn't really make driving any better.
    I see where you are coming from. I'm not really an x's and o's guy, and I've never thought about it like you have presented, so I wonder if the defensive philosophy changes for a team when their opponent gets in the bonus.
    "What people think of as the moment of discovery is really the discovery of the question." -Jonas Silk

  9. #182
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    "I think we put Paul on Kyrie [Irving], and Lance went to Love," McMillan said. "They do a great job of recognizing matchups and taking advantage of it. I thought that was huge. Defensively, we just didn't play that right. The reason for it was just trying to get control of Kyrie by putting [a] bigger defender on him. We had to try to deny entry to anyone who was in the post, but we really did a bad job of allowing Love to catch it. We didn't work to deny or front that post shot."
    If Lance was supposed to front Love, why didn't someone shout 'front his ***' from the Pacers bench after he collected 3 fouls in a 2 minute span? It's not like there wasn't a stoppage of play where someone couldn't have said something.

    The problem with this Pacers team is that no one communicates anything. Not on switches, not when you're not performing your assignment correctly.

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  11. #183
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    ...and Lance has had so much practice guarding PF's. I don't fault Nate for trying it. I do fault him for continuing it. I actually missed that segment of the game fortunately. At the end of the day, Lance really should be running the point.

  12. #184
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Jalen destroyed PG again this morning (everybody is doing it) he was like "imagine if Hayward runs to JJ and tells him this is my ball, there is a chance they don't win the game vs The Clippers but instead Hayward trusted his teammate to make the right play".



    I can see PG chasing JJ like a mad man asking him to give him the ball.
    That's a stupid comparison by Jalen.

    There's probably nobody that has hit more game winners in the league active at the moment as Joe Johnson.
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    On your first point, absolutely. Driving at people who are in foul trouble can be a great strategy because as you said it forces decisions. But that is not really related to if a team is in the bonus or not. Teams can be in foul trouble without the other team being in the bonus in a certain quarter, and teams can be in the bonus and not have anybody on the other team in foul trouble (which I believe was the case last night).

    Your second point is also true about wanting to get easier shots. But that also has little to do with the bonus because if you get fouled driving, you almost always go the line whether you are in the bonus or not.

    Basically there are benefits to driving (getting to the foul line, getting easier shots, getting teams in foul trouble, etc.) and there are benefits to being in the bonus (going to the line on loose ball fouls, fouls holding on screens, fouls 30 feet from the basket, etc) but those benefits are almost mutually exclusive. Being in the bonus doesn't really make driving any better.
    From my perspective, staying on the perimeter tends to spread the floor to the point where incidental fouls are less likely (few contested rebounds, few screens, etc.). Not necessarily just driving the basket but change to a more interior game will increase the likelihood of getting fouled. Staying out at the long-2 or 3-pt range tends not to do that.
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Jalen destroyed PG again this morning (everybody is doing it) he was like "imagine if Hayward runs to JJ and tells him this is my ball, there is a chance they don't win the game vs The Clippers but instead Hayward trusted his teammate to make the right play".



    I can see PG chasing JJ like a mad man asking him to give him the ball.
    Eh Jalen is a fool. The situations are complete different. What type of team does Utah have? They have 51 wins. They are a good team. Pacers are a 42 win team, 42 win teams should rely on their superstar player to win the game in that situation....not streaky volume shooters with terrible form.

    Anybody see that CJ Miles attempt from last night where he curled around to the top of the 3pt line and took a 3 coming off the screen? His body was leaning sideways and twisting in the air has he was shooting. Ridiculous shooting form. Brick City all the time for him unless its spot up.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Who do you have in mind?
    OG and Mbah a Moute

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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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    Member Ace E.Anderson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    How Paul is somehow being criticized after these first two games is beyond me.

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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ECKrueger View Post
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    I would puke if melo came to Indy
    I don't like the idea either, but I'd take him over Al Jeff and Monta. And now that him and his wife split, he maybe more open to a small market.

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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Eh Jalen is a fool. The situations are complete different. What type of team does Utah have? They have 51 wins. They are a good team. Pacers are a 42 win team, 42 win teams should rely on their superstar player to win the game in that situation....not streaky volume shooters with terrible form.

    Anybody see that CJ Miles attempt from last night where he curled around to the top of the 3pt line and took a 3 coming off the screen? His body was leaning sideways and twisting in the air has he was shooting. Ridiculous shooting form. Brick City all the time for him unless its spot up.
    Stop.

    It's getting to the point where Paul George is *****ing too much about not getting the ball and shaming his teammates when he don't. It's about WINNING, and not about his touches. At the end of the day, I don't give a damn who shoots the final shot. If they're capable, let it fly.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    How Paul is somehow being criticized after these first two games is beyond me.
    He is kind of doing it to himself.
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Stop.

    It's getting to the point where Paul George is *****ing too much about not getting the ball and shaming his teammates when he don't. It's about WINNING, and not about his touches. At the end of the day, I don't give a damn who shoots the final shot. If they're capable, let it fly.
    Exactly....CJ Miles is not capable of hitting that shot. He is not clutch, he has terrible form off the dribble. Ergo, I want my best player taking that shot.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    OG and Mbah a Moute


    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    He is kind of doing it to himself.
    Its just the media creating the narrative they want. Paul was right on both comments. Lance was brought in here to be the energy guy, to hype his teammates up, to hold guys accountable on effort plays. When he is huffing and puffing about defensive mistakes, he isnt doing his job.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    Holy **** this thread. Was nobody around for the 90s? A series doesn't start until someone loses on their home court. I have every reason to believe we will win both games at home. We lost by a total of 7 points in two games on the defending champs home court. We are putrid away from home, but we are very good at home. How did you guys make it through the 90s when the home team pretty much won every single game? How many times were we down 2-0 and took it to 7 games? Granted our coach is beyond horrible but we had a chance in both games against what very well should be the 1 seed in the east. I'm not getting too down yet, this is very typical of an NBA playoff series.
    I don't get that. So if it goes to 7 games where both teams protect their home court, it never even starts but it finishes?

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    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    How Paul is somehow being criticized after these first two games is beyond me.
    It's not his play that people are criticizing. It's his mouth.

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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    If Lance was supposed to front Love, why didn't someone shout 'front his ***' from the Pacers bench after he collected 3 fouls in a 2 minute span? It's not like there wasn't a stoppage of play where someone couldn't have said something.

    The problem with this Pacers team is that no one communicates anything. Not on switches, not when you're not performing your assignment correctly.
    I think communication is the biggest problem. I started watch the game on DVR, and got pissed about the possession. Irving dribbled towards a screen. The screener released early to roll to the basket and BOTH players followed the roll player to give Irving an open look.

    A) The perimeter player should stay in the perimeter to prevent an open look regardless of the roll man.

    or B) The post player can simply shout "I got him" to let the perimeter player know the player is covered and continue to follow the roll man.

    When I played basketball, I was always communicating screens and picks while pointing at open men on offense. Hell, if my post teammate communicated the picks/screens properly then we were shouting out "I got high/low" while ball handler was dribbling towards the screen.

    Defense 101.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    It's not his play that people are criticizing. It's his mouth.
    I am amazed out how good Paul has become as a player. But judgment has been an issue with him over the years. I have not heard the latest but I'm reading he ripped on team mates in the media. I thought he just said he should be the one shooting it. Was there more?

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post game-Brooms Coming Out

    I love it when the media criticizes athletes for only giving stock answers and then when you have an athlete actually give thoughtful honest answers is the media happy? no they criticize the athlete even more.

    That is what is happening with PG. He is brutally honest in his post game press conferences. Great viewing and I appreciate it. I don't think CJ is upset over what PG said about him and I don't think Lance or Myles is upset either and if they are, then they aren't mentally tough enough.

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