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So how do we view the season now?

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  • #31
    Re: So how do we view the season now?

    I said 46 wins in my prediction, but I did that simply because I figured they would do that to me just to burn my *** about Frank. But if I was truly honest I would have always said that the team was about 38-40 wins. I mean when people talk about the talent they have I just look at the roster and say that I just don't understand basketball anymore at all if this is supposed to be a good roster.

    Our guard corpse consisted of Monta, Rodney, Joe Young and a brand new point guard in Jeff Teague. How anyone could look at that and think, yea that's a winner is beyond me. Monta is a real puzzler because truth be told he is just a shorter less talented Lance (suck it vnzla81 ), in other words he has to have the ball in his hands to be productive. Yet here we are year two of him trying to make him be something he never has been (a spot up shooter). Nothing is more fun in life than watching Teague drive the lane and draw defenders to kick it to a wide open Monta who the proceeds to drive the lane as well. If we were committed to Monta then in all honesty getting Teague was a mistake, we should have went out and got a shooter to play along side Monta and let him be the point.

    Rodney Stucky is just an even less talented version of Monta Ellis, except that Monta can actually suit up most games and Rodney would often times twist an ankle in the layup line. Joe Young? He's just trash so there is nothing there.

    Not to mention that by playing sub atomic players in the back court we were getting murdered on the glass every single night.

    Now look at these wings and tell me you a solid winning rotation.

    Paul George, well duh of course he's great so there is that. But after him you have C.J. Miles and GR3. Really???? I mean c'mon!!! If you look under streaky in the dictionary you will see C.J. Miles, he can shoot you in our out of a game but overall he is just meh. GR3 got some confidence when he won that dunk contest but up until then you had to wonder if there were nights he wanted to hide on the bench because he didn't look like he wanted to play.

    Our power forwards (I use that term very loosely) were even worse.

    Thad Young, LaVoy Allen, Kevin Seraphine and ultimately Christmas.

    Thad tries but he literally is smaller than Paul George. I don't care about his wrist he has been atrocious most of the season on the glass and while he is crafty around the basket he often is giving up as much as he is giving. LaVoy Allen is the most frustrating player who has ever lived. On nights you watch him set hard screens, go after tough rebounds and put in shots around the rim and you think, yea that's the stuff. But then the next five nights you'll be watching and he will check out of the game and you are going, Oh crap i forgot he has played the last 7 minutes wow he did nothing out there. Seraphine has been a mystery to me, when he played I thought for the most part he played well. But Nate did not like using him for some reason, it could be he was out of shape and that is what caused it or something else I have no idea. But now that he has settled into the backup 5 spot he seems productive at least. Christmas looks like a good bench player but let's be real your not winning or losing based on his game.

    Center was second year Myles Turner and Al Jefferson.

    Myles had a up and down sophomore year. I really got disgusted with him by mid season for his lack of physical game. I'm not expecting him to be like Andre Drummond or nothing but there were some nights where he was playing 30+ minutes and grabbing 4 rebounds. Hell Roy did better than that. He also got lost on defense a lot this year and well that dead eye jump shot faded as the year went on. There are still great things ahead but we had the typical growing pains that you would expect from him.

    Al Jefferson? Here I'll just show you a video I shot of Al this season



    Al still has good low post offensive moves but on his best days he is just a liability on defense, on his worst he is a disaster.

    Again, to me when i view that roster I do not see a real winner or contender. There are players who can be on a winner or contender but we still need upgrades at several key positions going into the off season no matter how we do vs. the Cavs.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

    Comment

    • #32
      Re: So how do we view the season now?

      Underachieved, but not terribly. I overestimated the talent on the roster.

      Comment

      • #33
        Re: So how do we view the season now?

        Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
        I hopefully can post more on this topic tomorrow, but I find it a little early to suggest that The Lance effect has turned the team around. He has injected some energy into the team he has provide a lift coming off the bench. But I wonder if it is sort of like when a new coach takes over mid season and you have a honeymoon effect for a few weeks. My question is Lances positive impact temporary?

        Like me I said I'll try to post more tomorrow.
        Yeah but they were losing to weak teams until recently. Remember the recent pitiful home losses to Denver and Minny?
        Last edited by Sollozzo; 04-14-2017, 06:44 AM.

        Comment

        • #34
          Re: So how do we view the season now?

          Originally posted by Peck View Post
          I said 46 wins in my prediction, but I did that simply because I figured they would do that to me just to burn my *** about Frank. But if I was truly honest I would have always said that the team was about 38-40 wins. I mean when people talk about the talent they have I just look at the roster and say that I just don't understand basketball anymore at all if this is supposed to be a good roster.

          Our guard corpse consisted of Monta, Rodney, Joe Young and a brand new point guard in Jeff Teague. How anyone could look at that and think, yea that's a winner is beyond me. Monta is a real puzzler because truth be told he is just a shorter less talented Lance (suck it vnzla81 ), in other words he has to have the ball in his hands to be productive. Yet here we are year two of him trying to make him be something he never has been (a spot up shooter). Nothing is more fun in life than watching Teague drive the lane and draw defenders to kick it to a wide open Monta who the proceeds to drive the lane as well. If we were committed to Monta then in all honesty getting Teague was a mistake, we should have went out and got a shooter to play along side Monta and let him be the point.

          Rodney Stucky is just an even less talented version of Monta Ellis, except that Monta can actually suit up most games and Rodney would often times twist an ankle in the layup line. Joe Young? He's just trash so there is nothing there.

          Not to mention that by playing sub atomic players in the back court we were getting murdered on the glass every single night.

          Now look at these wings and tell me you a solid winning rotation.

          Paul George, well duh of course he's great so there is that. But after him you have C.J. Miles and GR3. Really???? I mean c'mon!!! If you look under streaky in the dictionary you will see C.J. Miles, he can shoot you in our out of a game but overall he is just meh. GR3 got some confidence when he won that dunk contest but up until then you had to wonder if there were nights he wanted to hide on the bench because he didn't look like he wanted to play.

          Our power forwards (I use that term very loosely) were even worse.

          Thad Young, LaVoy Allen, Kevin Seraphine and ultimately Christmas.

          Thad tries but he literally is smaller than Paul George. I don't care about his wrist he has been atrocious most of the season on the glass and while he is crafty around the basket he often is giving up as much as he is giving. LaVoy Allen is the most frustrating player who has ever lived. On nights you watch him set hard screens, go after tough rebounds and put in shots around the rim and you think, yea that's the stuff. But then the next five nights you'll be watching and he will check out of the game and you are going, Oh crap i forgot he has played the last 7 minutes wow he did nothing out there. Seraphine has been a mystery to me, when he played I thought for the most part he played well. But Nate did not like using him for some reason, it could be he was out of shape and that is what caused it or something else I have no idea. But now that he has settled into the backup 5 spot he seems productive at least. Christmas looks like a good bench player but let's be real your not winning or losing based on his game.

          Center was second year Myles Turner and Al Jefferson.

          Myles had a up and down sophomore year. I really got disgusted with him by mid season for his lack of physical game. I'm not expecting him to be like Andre Drummond or nothing but there were some nights where he was playing 30+ minutes and grabbing 4 rebounds. Hell Roy did better than that. He also got lost on defense a lot this year and well that dead eye jump shot faded as the year went on. There are still great things ahead but we had the typical growing pains that you would expect from him.

          Al Jefferson? Here I'll just show you a video I shot of Al this season



          Al still has good low post offensive moves but on his best days he is just a liability on defense, on his worst he is a disaster.

          Again, to me when i view that roster I do not see a real winner or contender. There are players who can be on a winner or contender but we still need upgrades at several key positions going into the off season no matter how we do vs. the Cavs.
          I agtee with everything here. Especially about Thad.

          I know he's a fan favorite, and while he does a great job of catching passes and finishing in the lane, he is just not a starting caliber PF IMO.

          As for the rest of the roster I'll just say that its really telling that a guy who's been out of the league for most of the year and isnt in the best shape yet was able to come in and immediately become one of the staples of the bench rotation.

          This roster doesn't scream 50+ wins to me

          Comment

          • #35
            Re: So how do we view the season now?

            Peck said,"Not to mention that by playing sub atomic players in the back court we were getting murdered on the glass every single night."


            I am very tired of our microscopic lineup of points and shooting guards and even small centers.
            Please sign some big shooting guards and forwards and a physical center to help Myles out.
            Having one like Teague at point who is very quick is good. Stuckey and Monta trying to be shooting guards and then guard 6'7" shooting guards is not going to work.
            Lance at least brings some size to the point, which is really the position he is playing lately as a back up and Brooks is a shooting guard and only because Robinson is injured
            {o,o}
            |)__)
            -"-"-

            Comment

            • #36
              Re: So how do we view the season now?

              Originally posted by owl View Post
              Peck said,"Not to mention that by playing sub atomic players in the back court we were getting murdered on the glass every single night."


              I am very tired of our microscopic lineup of points and shooting guards and even small centers.
              Please sign some big shooting guards and forwards and a physical center to help Myles out.
              Having one like Teague at point who is very quick is good. Stuckey and Monta trying to be shooting guards and then guard 6'7" shooting guards is not going to work.
              Lance at least brings some size to the point, which is really the position he is playing lately as a back up and Brooks is a shooting guard and only because Robinson is injured
              The lack of physicality with the starters is stunning. Myles is a paper thin center. Thad Young is too small to be a PF. Paul George isn't exactly Mr. Physical. Jeff Teague is small. Monta is a miniature SG. I don't recall another Pacer team this small ever. I'm not sure if there are many starting units in the NBA this small...if there are any at all.

              Comment

              • #37
                Re: So how do we view the season now?

                Depends on whether Paul gets ALL-NBA or not, honestly.

                Comment

                • #38
                  Re: So how do we view the season now?

                  Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                  The lack of physicality with the starters is stunning. Myles is a paper thin center. Thad Young is too small to be a PF. Paul George isn't exactly Mr. Physical. Jeff Teague is small. Monta is a miniature SG. I don't recall another Pacer team this small ever. I'm not sure if there are many starting units in the NBA this small...if there are any at all.

                  Agree. The Pacers were one of the larger teams when Hibbert and West were around but they were slower than a glacier or sloth as Peck noted, haha, and that was their downfall.
                  So a taller player with some quickness is what I want. If they have that they will be a better defender also come playoff time when defenses really start to
                  actually play defense
                  {o,o}
                  |)__)
                  -"-"-

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Re: So how do we view the season now?

                    I think that overall the season was disappointing, however, we did finish strong.

                    As far the playoffs, if we have a series similar to the 2011 series with the Bulls then we will have had a respectable season. I would love to see us beat the Cavs or even go 7 games with them, but I don't see that happening.

                    I think with the addition of Lance, a strong finish to the season and playing well in the playoffs will be enough to re-sign Paul.

                    I'm not convinced money is that big of an incentive for Paul. I think he is more concerned about being on a competitive team and getting personal recognition. If you think about it, the more money he makes, the less we will have available to bring in good players to help him. I think Paul would be happy to sign the standard maximum if he felt like the Pacers would be a contender.

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Re: So how do we view the season now?

                      I guessed around 50 wins, so obviously was a disappointment from that perspective. But I will say I'm encouraged. I think we all underestimated how hard it is to 1) install a traditional PG into a team whose star needs the ball in his hands and 2) transition from playing predominately a 2-big lineup to a smaller, faster 1-big lineup. We need to realize we have a 21 year old anchoring our defense which is a tall task, especially since our guards like to gamble. Also incorporating Thad Young was not easy, as he is a herky-jerky player which is tough to play with. It looked horrible early on, but it is obvious after his injury how much he means to the team. We are starting to see them trust each other and we earned a 5 game win streak because of it. I honestly believe a lot of our pains were simply having a new team, and I expect them to be much better next year (if the team remains intact). I expect them to put up a real fight in this playoffs.

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Re: So how do we view the season now?

                        The season failed to meet my expectations.

                        The energy injection from Lance may prove to be too late to matter, though it keeps the first round of the playoffs from being a foregone conclusion of a sweep. Barely getting above .500 and a second year of losing to the second seed - especially if games are close and people start believing the Cavs were beatable - isn't the improvement we were essentially promised when Frank was sent packing.

                        Now, that all changes if we upset the Cavs. It more-or-less becomes '94 all over again.

                        Considering that to be very unlikely, the two things I want for this series to keep from being more disappointed are:

                        - the Pacers keep their cool after the inevitable frustrating blowout in one of the games. This more than anything else will test the honeymoon vibe and let us know if their ability to work together will continue to next season

                        - the overall series has to go to 6 games. A sweep is a huge disappointment and winning 1 would be a fluke, we need to win 2. I'd love for them to be games 3 & 4 because winning tough playoff games at home is how you get fans to buy in for next year.
                        BillS

                        A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                        Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Re: So how do we view the season now?

                          People chuckled when I predicted 49 wins +/- 7 wins, but I honestly believed there was that much variability inherent in all of the new pieces and parts. We've seen what happens when there's cohesion amongst these players, and we've seen what happens when there's not. I'm not frustrated with the season, but of course I'm disappointed. For me it has less to do with the W-L record, and more to do with the product I watched throughout the season.

                          How can a team expect me to care, if they seemingly don't care?

                          The switch was flipped during the double overtime Cavs game from my perspective. I'm optimistic that we're in the process of finding our way back towards contention now, but the playoffs will give us a much better flavor of whether we were seeing iron pyrite or bonafide gold.

                          Regardless, I'm absolutely convinced that the pieces and parts of our puzzle don't collectively fit together. That starts with Monta Ellis and Al Jefferson.

                          If we stretch Al Jefferson, that will tell me that this front office is serious about getting better.

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            Re: So how do we view the season now?

                            After reading that article about Lance I can't help but feel that if we win a championship its going to be because of Lance....Paul might be on this team when it happens, but it will be because Lance is a Pacer. This guy is truly humbled and committed to being his best for the franchise.
                            You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Re: So how do we view the season now?

                              This season has been an failure by just about every measurement. Getting to 7 games against the Cavs makes it easier to be optimistic for next season, but that's it.
                              “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Re: So how do we view the season now?

                                Disappointment. I think a lot falls on Nate. I don't think he is the guy for the job. Also PG, not cause of his play but is ability to rally the troops. Just stupid a group of grown men had to rely on Lance to get them excited about playing basketball. Rumblings around here (Ames) are that Niang wasn't on the Ants mainly due to him being well liked in the locker room and bringing some life. If that's true, that's kind of sad that our 15th man is the guy doing that.
                                I think the talent is there. I don't think practices were structured and Nate didn't hold players accountable. Otherwise it wouldn't have taken Al Jeff to get hurt (dental pain) to experiment with Seraphin and Christmas. Also it was stupid that when Al Jeff came back to break up the Christmas/Allen tandom that was working at the time.

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