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Thread: So how do we view the season now?

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default So how do we view the season now?

    To me the day Lance signed with the team this became a new team. It had some of the same old players and same coaching staff but the "vibe" of the team changed dramatically that day.

    So overall it is really hard for me to judge this team now because with Lance we are 5-1 and the one loss was to the defending world champs in a double overtime thriller.

    Now before some of you get all hung up on me saying "Lance this or Lance that" understand I am perfectly aware he plays a peripheral role to Paul George. Paul doesn't play superstar level of play for this time then we are already talking about our draft pick. But nobody can deny the "Lance effect" and if you do deny it your just doing it to be contrary at this point.

    However for those of you that picked 50 wins and a deep playoff run, how do you feel now? Its great we're going in on fire and let's be clear we are on fire, but how do you feel about the rest of the season?

    To me 46 wins and the second round was the minimum standard that should have been held because that is what Larry Bird said was his opinion from last seasons team.

    Well we didn't get the 46 wins and lets be honest if we didn't sign Lance to end the season then I don't think we make the 42 we ended up with either, most likely 38 or so.

    So in that case this year has been an abject failure.

    However I am willing to let that all go since we now have Lance back and Nate has committed to using Kevin Seraphine as backup big.

    To me now it all starts and ends with the playoffs.

    If we get swept, I will be very disappointed and honestly very worried about Paul's future here. He wants to compete and getting taken out without a win in the first round is not going to make him confident.

    If we take them to a 7 game series and still lose I will feel slightly disappointed but not worried nearly as much about Paul as I think that would show him that if we tweak the roster a little more he can get back to competing.

    If we win the series I will not only be thrilled but I will also feel confident Paul will re-sign here either next summer or the summer after.

    But I am really more interested in your take on the year past.

    What do you think in regards to where we are and where we will be.


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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    I think we face a lot of problems as we did in the beginning of the season. The team needs Paul George to basically play MVP status for us to have a real chance. His month of March has been insane in every statistical category. We have a lot of the talent but the pieces don't fit very well and the coach isn't creative enough to get them to maximize their talent. I'm seeing him use the same exact plays he used in Portland, especially with all the Paul isos. (Not saying Vogel was great either) We are definitely​ not great at defense because our perimeter is porus and then we are weak at rebounding because we are small or aren't strong enough.

    Offensively we stagnate, look at the other teams beside Bulls, they either cut or have other actions after the first, we look a lost and stand around or get PG to bail us out.


    Lets look at it based on the numbers:

    Vegas had the under/over for us at 43.5. We got 42 wins.

    Team’s defensive identity, Pacers opponents’ FG% ballooned from 44.0% to 45.

    Offensive Rating: (2016) 105.28 vs (2017) 109.31 . Not too bad, but the loss in defense kind of negates it.

    Other stuff:

    Nate may have lost the locker room (according to George’s disgruntled comments earlier in the season, and he may/definitely played my “LVP” least valuable player Monta Ellis too much.

    Overall I say we had the talent to get us to 50 wins, but a combination of it not working together well and having no identity really made the Pacers lose their way. This can be blamed both on the management and coaching. This team definitely underachieved this year.
    Last edited by immortality; 04-13-2017 at 07:28 PM.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    To me the day Lance signed with the team this became a new team. It had some of the same old players and same coaching staff but the "vibe" of the team changed dramatically that day.

    So overall it is really hard for me to judge this team now because with Lance we are 5-1 and the one loss was to the defending world champs in a double overtime thriller.

    Now before some of you get all hung up on me saying "Lance this or Lance that" understand I am perfectly aware he plays a peripheral role to Paul George. Paul doesn't play superstar level of play for this time then we are already talking about our draft pick. But nobody can deny the "Lance effect" and if you do deny it your just doing it to be contrary at this point.

    However for those of you that picked 50 wins and a deep playoff run, how do you feel now? Its great we're going in on fire and let's be clear we are on fire, but how do you feel about the rest of the season?

    To me 46 wins and the second round was the minimum standard that should have been held because that is what Larry Bird said was his opinion from last seasons team.

    Well we didn't get the 46 wins and lets be honest if we didn't sign Lance to end the season then I don't think we make the 42 we ended up with either, most likely 38 or so.

    So in that case this year has been an abject failure.

    However I am willing to let that all go since we now have Lance back and Nate has committed to using Kevin Seraphine as backup big.

    To me now it all starts and ends with the playoffs.

    If we get swept, I will be very disappointed and honestly very worried about Paul's future here. He wants to compete and getting taken out without a win in the first round is not going to make him confident.

    If we take them to a 7 game series and still lose I will feel slightly disappointed but not worried nearly as much about Paul as I think that would show him that if we tweak the roster a little more he can get back to competing.

    If we win the series I will not only be thrilled but I will also feel confident Paul will re-sign here either next summer or the summer after.

    But I am really more interested in your take on the year past.

    What do you think in regards to where we are and where we will be.
    Before we signed Lance, I, one of Bird's biggest defenders because of how successful we've been under him, have been ready to see him go.

    But when I look at the moves, the only thing I really dislike is the Al Jefferson signing. I think the reality is this team had some tough injuries and it disrupted an already difficult gelling process.

    But none of that matters. Like the other thread with the Simon interview touches on, bringing in the right players to keep PG here and make us a contender is what matters for Bird.

    As for this season, it sucks that we aren't playing the 2nd best team in the East. IMO the Cavs are the best team in the East, and I would bet on us advancing to the second round vs any other team thus making the season a success.

    But it is what it is, and short of advancing to the 2nd round, this season is a failure. I might be convinced by a Game 7, or impressive growth from Turner, Lance, and GRIII or PG saying that he liked how the team came together and it contributed to him re-signing. But

    I expected a playoff run this season, so without one I'll be disappointed. How disappointed depends on PG.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Before we signed Lance, I, one of Bird's biggest defenders because of how successful we've been under him, have been ready to see him go.

    But when I look at the moves, the only thing I really dislike is the Al Jefferson signing. I think the reality is this team had some tough injuries and it disrupted an already difficult gelling process.

    But none of that matters. Like the other thread with the Simon interview touches on, bringing in the right players to keep PG here and make us a contender is what matters for Bird.

    As for this season, it sucks that we aren't playing the 2nd best team in the East. IMO the Cavs are the best team in the East, and I would bet on us advancing to the second round vs any other team thus making the season a success.

    But it is what it is, and short of advancing to the 2nd round, this season is a failure. I might be convinced by a Game 7, or impressive growth from Turner, Lance, and GRIII or PG saying that he liked how the team came together and it contributed to him re-signing. But

    I expected a playoff run this season, so without one I'll be disappointed. How disappointed depends on PG.
    The problem is I feel Larry Bird goes into the off-season as his goal is to sign a player for the sake of signing one. This is why we got stuck with Monta or Al Jefferson. I felt like no one else was offering the same kind of contracts Pacers offered them, Pacers should have waited to see how the markets played out. Because right now both contracts are costing us 21 million, and that could have been 10-15 million a year instead.

    Also Larry Bird never interviewing anyone besides Nate McMillian made me a sad panda, there were so many great coaches available last season.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    The problem is I feel Larry Bird goes into the off-season as his goal is to sign a player for the sake of signing one. This is why we got stuck with Monta or Al Jefferson. I felt like no one else was offering the same kind of contracts Pacers offered them, Pacers should have waited to see how the markets played out. Because right now both contracts are costing us 21 million, and that could have been 10-15 million a year instead.
    I get the much more depressing feeling that we sign whatever we can get.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I get the much more depressing feeling that we sign whatever we can get.
    Yea but we can get them at a lower price ;p

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    Yea but we can get them at a lower price ;p
    Ha, I hope you're right.

    I just look at our FA list and have never gotten anyone to come here we didn't draft or take a risk on.

    The best player was West who isn't like most FAs. Not interested in money or city and just looks at the experience.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    The problem is I feel Larry Bird goes into the off-season as his goal is to sign a player for the sake of signing one. This is why we got stuck with Monta or Al Jefferson. I felt like no one else was offering the same kind of contracts Pacers offered them, Pacers should have waited to see how the markets played out. Because right now both contracts are costing us 21 million, and that could have been 10-15 million a year instead.
    But do you feel that top-notch talent are lining up to play with PG, but only waiting on us to give them a good contract? Because I honestly don't feel that way. I wouldn't doubt if most players would rather take the Carmelo route and get paid big money in a big city, even if they're on a losing team; as opposed to coming to bum-**** Indiana and maybe making the playoffs.

    Most players want to play with Lebron because he's basically the Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant of this era, and everyone knows that his teams, at minimum, are going to the Conference finals.

    Golden State wasn't an item until they actually won a championship. I'm willing to bet if they've never even went to the finals, Durant would be on another team right now.

    Look at Giannis Antekoupetec. I feel he can be just as good as Paul; but, I'm sure no top-notch player wants to play in Milwaukee.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Barring us pulling off the greatest upset in playoff history, I view it as a disappointment. It's impossible for a Lebron team to ever be any lower than the 2 seed while he's still in his prime, so the Pacers hanging around the 7/8 seed meant they were putting themselves in the horrible position to get beat by him in the first round. Can't let that happen. Gotta get to at least the 6 seed so you don't have to play Lebron in the first round.

    It sucks because PG is playing like a top 3 player and some of these other pieces are really gelling. I think we'd have a chance against any other team in the East, but we had a crappy season and have no one to blame but ourselves for playing Lebron in the first round. Cleveland is flawed, but there's no way in hell Lebron gets beat in the first round.

    The Pacers weren't a very good roster, but we should have done better than the 7 seed.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Barring us pulling off the greatest upset in playoff history, I view it as a disappointment. It's impossible for a Lebron team to ever be any lower than the 2 seed while he's still in his prime, so the Pacers hanging around the 7/8 seed meant they were putting themselves in the horrible position to get beat by him in the first round. Can't let that happen. Gotta get to at least the 6 seed so you don't have to play Lebron in the first round.

    It sucks because PG is playing like a top 3 player and some of these other pieces are really gelling. I think we'd have a chance against any other team in the East, but we had a crappy season and have no one to blame but ourselves for playing Lebron in the first round. Cleveland is flawed, but there's no way in hell Lebron gets beat in the first round.

    The Pacers weren't a very good roster, but we should have done better than the 7 seed.
    Yes. LeBron James does not lose in the first round, especially when he can surround himself with talent. No, Cleveland isn't remotely close to being a dynasty type team. But they have more talent than the Pacers from top to bottom.

    Thinking the Pacers can beat the Cavs is akin to thinking that Atlanta's backups we played last evening have a chance to beat us in a 7 game series. It just isn't going to happen.

    But to me, it's been a successful season because Lance is back and the team chemistry improved. If Paul leaves of course there isn't anything good going on in Pacerland.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Ask me again after about 4 games of the playoffs. Right now there's just too many variables and wildcards to really have a handle on it. Fool's gold? Smoke and mirrors? Desperation? I don't know. Something changed but whether it can be quantified, bottled, and seen again is yet TBD.

    But it sure is nice there's at least a chance it can be!
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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Wasted season, another season in NBA purgatory for the fan who doesn't care about moral victory or competing, and only cares about one day winning it all. Through that lens we are no closer and show no signs of having the pieces, or even a plan in mind, to make that leap.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    IDK. It will be fun to watch Lance shut down LeBron attempting a post up. Queen James is not going to own him in the paint. Nope.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    I'm dissapointed because I expected more from PG, he gives a damn more and we are top 4 easy.

    I expected Pacers to win 50+ games but at the same time if you look around the east only 3 teams won more than 50 and even Cleveland struggled to get to 50 and they are the defending Champions.

    Competition has been better in my opinion the time for a team to dominate on the eastern conference is kind of over in my opinion.

    Call it the "Lance effect" I rather call it the "70 extra million dollars effect" but PG seems more motivated, to me if Pacers take Cleveland to 6 we can call it an ok season, I really thought we were making it at least to the EFC but the non motivation by some of the players screwed everything up :/
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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    I hopefully can post more on this topic tomorrow, but I find it a little early to suggest that The Lance effect has turned the team around. He has injected some energy into the team he has provide a lift coming off the bench. But I wonder if it is sort of like when a new coach takes over mid season and you have a honeymoon effect for a few weeks. My question is Lances positive impact temporary?

    Like me I said I'll try to post more tomorrow.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Meh


    (I think that covers it)

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I hopefully can post more on this topic tomorrow, but I find it a little early to suggest that The Lance effect has turned the team around. He has injected some energy into the team he has provide a lift coming off the bench. But I wonder if it is sort of like when a new coach takes over mid season and you have a honeymoon effect for a few weeks. My question is Lances positive impact temporary?

    Like me I said I'll try to post more tomorrow.
    Lance is not a short-term, temporary bump. He actually helps the backups operate, he distributes the ball and he rebounds well. He's really contributing along with the intangibles (i.e. Lance Effect).

    So even if people denied the Lance Effect exists, he's still producing and helping his team mates via assists. He's helping grabbing 10 boards in limited minutes. More than anything though, his game does not wilt under pressure like it does for some guys. Instead, when the lights shine brightest, Lance has been able to operate. He is unphased by the pressure and if anything he seems to play MORE in control rather than LESS.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Lance is not a short-term, temporary bump. He actually helps the backups operate, he distributes the ball and he rebounds well. He's really contributing along with the intangibles (i.e. Lance Effect).

    So even if people denied the Lance Effect exists, he's still producing and helping his team mates via assists. He's helping grabbing 10 boards in limited minutes. More than anything though, his game does not wilt under pressure like it does for some guys. Instead, when the lights shine brightest, Lance has been able to operate. He is unphased by the pressure and if anything he seems to play MORE in control rather than LESS.
    Really could be its own thread but people need to accept being wrong. I was for sure Lance was finished, but its clear teams were just using him wrong. From Monteith today...




    His playing time with the Hornets dropped from 35 minutes in his final season with the Pacers to 26. His scoring average dropped from 13.8 points to 8.2. His field goal percentage dropped from 49 to 38. His 3-point percentage dropped from 35 percent to 17 percent – an NBA record for futility.

    "I was getting forced shots or shots I wasn't used to," he says. "The Pacers, we were playing unselfish. David West would get the ball in the post, if he turned and saw me open, I knew I was going to get it. As soon as I got to Charlotte, it wasn't like that. It was forced threes, forced shots.

    "It was tough, because we didn't have a primary shooter. It was me, Kemba (Walker) and (Michael Kidd-) Gilchrist. Teams were clogging up the paint and daring us to shoot. We needed a shooter out there and we didn't have one. I need the ball in my hands and Kemba needed the ball in his hands. It just didn't fit."
    There's more to it than that, however. Bird could have had Stephenson for the bare minimum. There were no competing offers, and Stephenson would have taken anything. He had made that clear to others in the Pacers' front office, even offering to go to Fort Wayne to play for the Mad Ants and work himself back into shape.

    Bird, however, went beyond that. He signed Stephenson to a far more generous guaranteed contract. He wanted to give Stephenson the security of a guaranteed contract for next season, which will allow him to work out at The Fieldhouse all summer, protect the franchise's interests and give Stephenson the opportunity to earn a bigger contract.

    Pacers owner Herb Simon signed off on the deal. It's a bargain for the franchise, because the mid-level salary next season will be more than $8 million, and starting two-guards are making about $14 million per season. Bird considers Stephenson a starting-caliber player, and didn't want to take advantage of his vulnerable position.

    "He wasn't getting anything before," Bird said. "A lot of people said it was a stupid move, but I didn't want to bring him in on a minimum."
    "Right now, I'm playing off just hanging on. My body is not the same as when I was here before. Now I'm in good hands with great trainers. I think I'll be all right now and get back to moving the way I was when I was here before."

    Stephenson already is playing the way he was when here before. He's allowed to have the ball in his hands, make plays, create for teammates. Memphis aside, the other teams tried to make him a classic off-guard, a catch-and-shoot wing. That's not Stephenson. His game was honed on the playgrounds and in the gymnasiums of New York, and has always been at his best when he has the ball in his hands.
    "He's going to be fine," Bird said. "He's real when he says he feels this is his home. That's no b.s. He wants to be here and he wants to make the fans happy. What they did for him that first night is pretty incredible. Because he needed that."

    The fan response, combined with the renewal of his role, has enabled Stephenson to recapture much of his mojo. He has no more worries, no more doubts about himself. He knows he has a job next season, and probably beyond. It shows in his play, which helped propel the Pacers along the five-game winning streak that pushed them into the playoffs.

    "It's just being comfortable again," he said. "Letting the game talk for itself and not worry if the team likes me or my teammates like me, or what the coach needs me to do. I get here and it's like, 'Do this, that, that and that and you'll be all right.' I didn't get that from no other team. It was like playing guessing games."
    Its hard to judge the season without talking so much about Lance and he's only been here 6 games! But had we not made this risk we would likely be looking at no playoffs and a disaster of a season. Plus its like we gained an asset out of nowhere.
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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I hopefully can post more on this topic tomorrow, but I find it a little early to suggest that The Lance effect has turned the team around. He has injected some energy into the team he has provide a lift coming off the bench. But I wonder if it is sort of like when a new coach takes over mid season and you have a honeymoon effect for a few weeks. My question is Lances positive impact temporary?

    Like me I said I'll try to post more tomorrow.

    I think the energy he brings has been very helpful and will continue to be so but what will really be the biggest help is Lance's ball skills. The few games he has been back I have noticed him making less reckless, look at me passes. He rebounds well and drives to the hoop and does not allow someone to body him on the way to the hoop.
    That is what will help most.
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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    We gained a good guy. A more humble Lance Stephenson. A guy who has learned full well to feel fortunate to be in Indiana. A guy who will be loyal to Bird and the franchise to the death. We got him at a bargain basement price. His team mates love him. It is truly a match made in heaven.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    As far as the season up to that point, the Pacers were on the verge of a complete re-build. Now it just seems something has dramatically changed.
    Somethings going to happen....

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    5 game wining streak. I'm not impressed. The Hawks didn't play their 5 best players. The Magic and Sixers gave up a long long time ago. The Raptors game was at home and pacers did trail by 19 points in the second quarter. The Bucks game was probably the best, but the Bucks ended the season 42-40, not exactly a great team there. Pacers should best .500 teams at home. And perhaps more importantly, no back to backs at all during this stretch

    I figure the two parts of the season to get some cheap wins? First 10 games and last 10 games. Last ten games a lot of teams have shelved their best players, many teams are either resting guys for the playoffs or just sitting half injured players in order to play the younger guys.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    This is why we got stuck with Monta or Al Jefferson. I felt like no one else was offering the same kind of contracts Pacers offered them, Pacers should have waited to see how the markets played out. Because right now both contracts are costing us 21 million, and that could have been 10-15 million a year instead.
    When we signed Monta, another team (Memphis?) actually offered him more $, but he picked Indiana because his wife was going to law school in the area. Everyone thought Jeffrerson was a great contract at the time; no one thought he would come in (and stay) so out of shape as to be useless.

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    "I went from being traded twice to being a free agent again and being on the minimum in New Orleans, then getting cut and then doing 10 days. I thought, 'Man, I can't be that bad. I know I can help a team. You're telling me I can't do nothing?'"

    lots of interesting stuff in the Monteith article; worth reading the whole thing

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    Default Re: So how do we view the season now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    5 game wining streak. I'm not impressed. The Hawks didn't play their 5 best players. The Magic and Sixers gave up a long long time ago. The Raptors game was at home and pacers did trail by 19 points in the second quarter. The Bucks game was probably the best, but the Bucks ended the season 42-40, not exactly a great team there. Pacers should best .500 teams at home. And perhaps more importantly, no back to backs at all during this stretch

    I figure the two parts of the season to get some cheap wins? First 10 games and last 10 games. Last ten games a lot of teams have shelved their best players, many teams are either resting guys for the playoffs or just sitting half injured players in order to play the younger guys.
    You aren't impressed with blowing out the raptors and the amazing comeback? How is the bucks game better?! You said it yourself they are 42-40. What is the raptors record??
    Lifelong pacers fan

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