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Thread: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

  1. #126
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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Idk how replacing a ball dominate guard who can't shoot with a bigger ball dominate who can't shoot fixes the problem of having too many ball dominate gaurds.
    I just said how. Brooks has become a spot up shooter and Lance and Brooks are both hitting 3s for us.

    Lance doesn't have to maintain the 3 shot to be a better option than Stuckey because he sets up teammates. Stuckey did not.

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    If Stuckey doesn't setup his teammates then im completely lost on how Stuckey manages to average more career assists.

    "Well Lance averages more during his 3 games than Stuckey did in his 39." Yeah but really sure that 1 more per game is the dividing line between not working and working.

    Lance does a great job at attacking and kicking, no doubt about it. But a jumpshot that has to be defended sets it all up. Teams will do to Lance that they did to stuck and that's play off a step and deny pentration.
    Last edited by Since86; 04-07-2017 at 03:34 PM.
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  3. #128
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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    If Stuckey doesn't setup his teammates then im completely lost on how Stuckey manages to average more career assists.

    "Well Lance averages more during his 3 games than Stuckey did in his 39." Yeah but really sure that 1 more per game is the dividing line between not working and working.
    I find it silly to ask why Lance works better than Stuckey when we're seeing why Lance works better than Stuckey.

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  5. #129
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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Huh? Lance is the primary ball handler with Brooks. Article I posted talked about it.
    Certainly hasn't looked like it. Maybe a 50/50 split but I haven't seen that yet.

  6. #130
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    If Stuckey doesn't setup his teammates then im completely lost on how Stuckey manages to average more career assists.

    "Well Lance averages more during his 3 games than Stuckey did in his 39." Yeah but really sure that 1 more per game is the dividing line between not working and working.
    I'm confused. Are you trying to say that Lance is bringing nothing more to this team than Stuckey did?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I find it silly to ask why Lance works better than Stuckey when we're seeing why Lance works better than Stuckey.
    Dude it's been 3 freaking games. It's not enough to be any evidence of anything working/not working yet.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I'm confused. Are you trying to say that Lance is bringing nothing more to this team than Stuckey did?
    I'm saying that the team structure problems that were there with Stuckey are still there with Lance.

    Is Lance better than Stuckey? Well he's certainly healthier and by default more productive (assuming he stays healthy) but Lance doesn't fix the redundancy problem.

    I literally said last page that Lance was #2 behind Monta out of the 5 on terms of who the better player is. So it's not a "Lance sucks" position.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Dude it's been 3 freaking games. It's not enough to be any evidence of anything working/not working yet.
    Which is why I said "what we've seen so far."

    But Lance clearly gets more players involved on this team.

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Which is why I said "what we've seen so far."

    But Lance clearly gets more players involved on this team.
    One time more per game by what we've seen. Is the difference between 2assist and 3assists really all that was needed? I doubt it.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    One time more per game by what we've seen. Is the difference between 2assist and 3assists really all that was needed? I doubt it.
    I don't consider the only indicator for setting up other players to be assists.

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    It's not worth debating as we're really far on this if you think Stuckey got players involved same level as Lance. Lance has a chemistry even with the starters never displayed this season by Stuckey.

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'm kind of curious to see where GRthree fits in all this. Nate has been very apprehensive about playing Monta at the 1 even though that seems to be the logical move. I kind of thought Lance would be the primary ball handler when paired with Aaron Brooks, but that didn't seem to happen either.
    I'm looking forward to seeing how GRIII reacts to playing with Lance. What Lance has in abundance is what GRIII has always seemed to lack. I'd love to see GRIII add a little attitude to his game.

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Lance is averaging, so far, .3 secondary assists (hockey assist) and Stuckey averaged .6.

    I doubt there's any more data out there but I think it's more of just being excited for Lance and attributing more than what's there.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Lance is averaging, so far, .3 secondary assists (hockey assist) and Stuckey averaged .6.

    I doubt there's any more data out there but I think it's more of just being excited for Lance and attributing more than what's there.
    They have started tracking hockey assists now? That's really cool. Have a link?

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Lance is averaging, so far, .3 secondary assists (hockey assist) and Stuckey averaged .6.

    I doubt there's any more data out there but I think it's more of just being excited for Lance and attributing more than what's there.
    The other data would be how much better we're playing. Stuckey struggled mightily his last month playing.

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    If Stuckey doesn't setup his teammates then im completely lost on how Stuckey manages to average more career assists.

    "Well Lance averages more during his 3 games than Stuckey did in his 39." Yeah but really sure that 1 more per game is the dividing line between not working and working.

    Lance does a great job at attacking and kicking, no doubt about it. But a jumpshoot that has to be defended sets it all up. Teams will do to Lance that they did to stuck and that's play off a step and deny pentration.
    How Stuckey played early in his Detroit days was not how Stuckey played in Indiana. As well as Lance has been much better in Indiana than his time elsewhere. Stuckey was not a creator here. There is no doubt about that. He was here to score. Brooks was handling the ball a lot. Now Lance, who is absolutely a creator, is handling the ball while Brooks is used as a shooter, a role he is better at.

    Do Lance and Stuckey share some similar issues? Sure. Both have had health issues, neither is much of a shooter. But they are also very different players. Younger Stuckey was closer to Lance, but thats not the player he was in Indiana.

    At the end of the day, I feel much more comfortable with Lance attacking the basket and either finishing the play himself or finding someone on the perimeter than I felt about Stuckey.

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  22. #142
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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Lance has played with these guys for 3 games and looks more comfortable with them than Stuckey did all season. End of argument.

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    It's not worth debating as we're really far on this if you think Stuckey got players involved same level as Lance. Lance has a chemistry even with the starters never displayed this season by Stuckey.
    Wait. Didn't you hear about the energy Stuckey brings to the floor? The commentators were always raving about it. Our franchise player just loves Rodney and gives him credit for lighting a fire under him.

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  26. #144
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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    If we could only bottle "the Lance Effect", extract its key ingredients and concentrate it. Paul could have triple triples.
    We need to get some Midichlorian tests, ASAP...

    (Ugh... I adore Star Wars, why did I just do that to myself?)

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    They have started tracking hockey assists now? That's really cool. Have a link?
    http://stats.nba.com/players/passing...mID=1610612754

    NBA.com's player tracking is the best.

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    The other data would be how much better we're playing. Stuckey struggled mightily his last month playing.
    3games man. 3games. I'll believe this is the new Pacers when it's longer than 3 games.
    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    How Stuckey played early in his Detroit days was not how Stuckey played in Indiana. As well as Lance has been much better in Indiana than his time elsewhere. Stuckey was not a creator here. There is no doubt about that. He was here to score. Brooks was handling the ball a lot. Now Lance, who is absolutely a creator, is handling the ball while Brooks is used as a shooter, a role he is better at.
    Which is why I noted their seasonal averages​.

    And Lance is handling the ball .7 more times in the front court than Stuckey did.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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  30. #146

    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I hope over the decades I've established that there's no combination of Pacers I don't want to win, whether I like them or not.
    Understood... but come on Bill, you know you wouldn't mind being right! That's why we're all here. We spew our nonsense and argue aimlessly with the hope that we don't look like complete idiots. Well, most of us anyway. Personally, I have no chance in hell of not looking like a complete idiot.

    Besides, you're from Danville. I grew up in Plainfield. We're supposed to talk **** to each other every once in a while. Don't think I haven't thought about that beer we shared at 3 Pints many moons ago. Side note - I heard through the grapevine that place closed down.
    Last edited by dgranger17; 04-07-2017 at 04:03 PM. Reason: Quentin Coryatt

  31. #147
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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by dgranger17 View Post
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    Side note - I heard through the grapevine that place closed down.
    Not surprising. I think their beer was mediocre at best. Since Black Swan hit their stride I never went back.

    Looks like they were bought out by Quaff On and still exist in Martinsville.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Honorary Area 55'er TMJ31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave View Post
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    Lance changes everything from an entertainment value. That doesn't surprise me. How he has seemingly changed the passion of teammates who just met him....that does. That is a charisma trait few humans have. And just for BillS who I know enjoys tabletop RPGs, it's as if Lance rolled an 18 in charisma....but I digress.
    Let's follow the D&D analogy, as I'm also a huge nerd who has been part of a regular weekly group that ran for over 5 years on a single campaign (which we'll pick up again someday when our schedules allow).

    Again, this is Basketball Lance in D&D. Not making any personal off court praise or condemnation here.

    Lance Stephenson is filling the role of the Pacers Bard (Class).

    He's got an insanely high Charisma score. His Dexterity is also fantastic. Uncharacteristically for a Bard, he also has great Strength.

    I would argue that his Wisdom score is also quite high for a Bard, in the sense that his court vision and his *potential* for mind-blowing assists and breaking down defenses is exceptional.

    BUT... His Intelligence score is... Questionable. I would say it's almost as if he wields a magical artifact. Let's call it the "Lance Effect Scepter of Unpredictability"

    So, while his Wisdom score is very good, its effectiveness hinges on his Intelligence score.

    One game, the Scepter may grant Lance a +5 INT modifier. When you combine that with his other, superb Bard traits... You get the "Good Lance" Effect. Potentially even the "Season Saving Lance" Effect.

    The next game, the Scepter may curse Lance with a -5 INT modifier. And you get the "Bad Lance" Effect.

    But take this into account:

    All season, the Pacers players, fans, coaches, front office, sports media, random tavern NPCs, you name it...

    They've ALL been under the curse of the "Malaise" spell. Why have we been afflicted by this Necromancer scourge? That's up for debate. And debate it we have... All year.

    But Lance Stephenson rejoined the party, and being a highly Charismatic Bard, immediately noticed the fatal effects the Malaise spell was having on the team, the franchise, the fans.

    Rolling an immediate Nat 20, Lance cast Dispel and removed the Exhaustion effects of the Malaise spell from the entire team and fan base.

    That's what has happened.

    Lance Stephenson is the Pacers Bard. Their muse.

    It may continue for days, weeks, years. It may not.

    But right now, to deny this is happening is silly.

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  34. #149
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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Idk how replacing a ball dominant guard who can't shoot with a bigger ball dominant guard who can't shoot fixes the problem of having too many ball dominant guards.
    But Lance at least Handles, passes, and defends better than Stuckey. Brings more swagger too.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

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    Default Re: Post game-Bandwagon Picking Up Steam

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    Let's follow the D&D analogy, as I'm also a huge nerd who has been part of a regular weekly group that ran for over 5 years on a single campaign (which we'll pick up again someday when our schedules allow).

    Again, this is Basketball Lance in D&D. Not making any personal off court praise or condemnation here.

    Lance Stephenson is filling the role of the Pacers Bard (Class).

    He's got an insanely high Charisma score. His Dexterity is also fantastic. Uncharacteristically for a Bard, he also has great Strength.

    I would argue that his Wisdom score is also quite high for a Bard, in the sense that his court vision and his *potential* for mind-blowing assists and breaking down defenses is exceptional.

    BUT... His Intelligence score is... Questionable. I would say it's almost as if he wields a magical artifact. Let's call it the "Lance Effect Scepter of Unpredictability"

    So, while his Wisdom score is very good, its effectiveness hinges on his Intelligence score.

    One game, the Scepter may grant Lance a +5 INT modifier. When you combine that with his other, superb Bard traits... You get the "Good Lance" Effect. Potentially even the "Season Saving Lance" Effect.

    The next game, the Scepter may curse Lance with a -5 INT modifier. And you get the "Bad Lance" Effect.

    But take this into account:

    All season, the Pacers players, fans, coaches, front office, sports media, random tavern NPCs, you name it...

    They've ALL been under the curse of the "Malaise" spell. Why have we been afflicted by this Necromancer scourge? That's up for debate. And debate it we have... All year.

    But Lance Stephenson rejoined the party, and being a highly Charismatic Bard, immediately noticed the fatal effects the Malaise spell was having on the team, the franchise, the fans.

    Rolling an immediate Nat 20, Lance cast Dispel and removed the Exhaustion effects of the Malaise spell from the entire team and fan base.

    That's what has happened.

    Lance Stephenson is the Pacers Bard. Their muse.

    It may continue for days, weeks, years. It may not.

    But right now, to deny this is happening is silly.
    That was awesome. Bravo.

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