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Thread: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Well, we know how you feel about Teague lol. It is what it is, you don't think much of him so I wouldn't expect you to think he will step it up in the playoffs like he has in the past.

    I'm in the middle. He's been very slightly below my expectations, but I think a guy who has made the playoffs every year and has led a team a few times doing so has another level.

    We'll see.
    To say I don't think much of him would be false considering that I essentially believe he and one of my favorite players to basically be one in the same.

    His struggles at the beginning of the year and here recently only confirmed what I already knew and had been arguing about him for nearly the last year.

    I do think he's a good player and can be a highly effective guy on a good team when he's on his game. Those stretches during the middle of the season didn't just happen by accident. He can ball.

    Edit: also if you look at his playoff numbers, he's typically somewhat struggled with the exception of one year. Especially with his shooting percentages

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I have been saying it forever PG needs to be more Gordon Hayward (catch and shoot, quick decision making) and less Melo, I hate it when he dribbles for like 10 seconds just to take some crazy shot in front of 3 defenders.
    At some point around 2013, PG started dominating the offense as if he was Kobe Bryant. He just isn't quite talented enough offensively for excess dribbling and difficult shots. I agree, he shines when he makes quick decisions in a short amount of time.

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    To say I don't think much of him would be false considering that I essentially believe he and one of my favorite players to basically be one in the same.

    His struggles at the beginning of the year and here recently only confirmed what I already knew and had been arguing about him for nearly the last year.

    I do think he's a good player and can be a highly effective guy on a good team when he's on his game. Those stretches during the middle of the season didn't just happen by accident. He can ball.
    I guess I meant you have said numerous time you don't prefer his game.

    As for his struggles in the beginning< I don't think that confirmed anything you were saying, just a new team. I don't think he has been bad recently either.

    I think he is almost exactly what I thought.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I don't think he has been bad recently either.

    I think he is almost exactly what I thought.
    Bad? No. But he hasn't been that great the last 20ish games either. Definitely a bit worse than what you and others have been pushing him as IMO.

    There's still plenty of games left for him to leave a more impressive mark. Helping the team win more games going into the playoffs can go a long way

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    At some point around 2013, PG started dominating the offense as if he was Kobe Bryant. He just isn't quite talented enough offensively for excess dribbling and difficult shots. I agree, he shines when he makes quick decisions in a short amount of time.
    He's a jump shooter who's game looks great when those Js are falling, and looks terrible when they aren't.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Bad? No. But he hasn't been that great the last 20ish games either. Definitely a bit worse than what you and others have been pushing him as IMO.

    There's still plenty of games left for him to leave a more impressive mark. Helping the team win more games going into the playoffs can go a long way
    Lol, over the season he has been pretty close to what I thought. IDK why we would just single out 20 games?

    And within those 20 games, the entire team struggled during that 6 game losing streak w/o Thad.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    At some point around 2013, PG started dominating the offense as if he was Kobe Bryant. He just isn't quite talented enough offensively for excess dribbling and difficult shots. I agree, he shines when he makes quick decisions in a short amount of time.
    I know you're being hyperbolic just to get effect but Paul shoots 47.8% of his shots within 2secs. Gordon? 48.2. PG shoots 42.8% of his shots without a dribble. Gordon? 42.4% Paul's average time of possession per touch is 2.86 secs. Gordon's? 3.17secs. 68.7% of PG's shots come from two dribbles or less. Gordon? 69.7.

    This is a classic case where someone see's a player a ton and compares him to a player that they don't see very often, and think that the player they see has all sorts of problems while the player they don't see as often doesn't. It would be funny to somehow have the power to swap PG out for Gordon for this past season, and read the comments about how Gordon needs to play more like PG. PG is just the target we see, so that's the target we shoot at.

    PG
    http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202331/shots-dash/
    Gordon
    http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/202330/shots-dash/
    Last edited by Since86; 03-16-2017 at 01:27 PM.
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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Lol, over the season he has been pretty close to what I thought. IDK why we would just single out 20 games?

    And within those 20 games, the entire team struggled during that 6 game losing streak w/o Thad.
    Obviously you wouldn't just single out those 25 games. But considering he struggled for 20 plus games at the start also, that's about half the season in which he hasn't set the world on fire.

    It's funny though, when he was killing it, looking at his last 10,15,and 20 games were all the rage with twitter mentions and everything else. But now, not so much. Funny how that happens

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Obviously you wouldn't just single out those 25 games. But considering he struggled for 20 plus games at the start also, that's about half the season in which he hasn't set the world on fire.

    It's funny though, when he was killing it, looking at his last 10,15,and 20 games were all the rage with twitter mentions and everything else. But now, not so much. Funny how that happens
    All I'm going to say on the matter is Jeff Teague is much, much better than you want him to be.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Obviously you wouldn't just single out those 25 games. But considering he struggled for 20 plus games at the start also, that's about half the season in which he hasn't set the world on fire.

    It's funny though, when he was killing it, looking at his last 10,15,and 20 games were all the rage with twitter mentions and everything else. But now, not so much. Funny how that happens
    It's funny you can't just say he is having a good season w/o cherry picking games and saying "I was right."

    He's had ups and down, but his floor has still helped the team. This is why we look at averages, he's had a good season for us.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    All I'm going to say on the matter is Jeff Teague is much, much better than you want him to be.
    I don't really get punishing Teague because he's not George Hill. I get that Ace likes Hill (understatement), but it's not like Teague staged a coup or something. What's the point in rooting against the guy? Just stupid. (cue, "I'm not rooting against him but here are the reasons I crap on him consistently" response)

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Colts issues are easy to figure out. No good receivers and no running back. Colts should use all their picks on receivers. Or package them all to move up. Look at the Falcons. They have a core of receivers and backs who can catch and run the ball.
    ...Ryan Grigson, is that you?


    Colts clear problems are O-line and Defense in general.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I don't really get punishing Teague because he's not George Hill. I get that Ace likes Hill (understatement), but it's not like Teague staged a coup or something. What's the point in rooting against the guy? Just stupid. (cue, "I'm not rooting against him but here are the reasons I crap on him consistently" response)
    Yea, I don't get it either. Like you, I agree with Ace in most cases, but I just don't understand this one at all.

    I even like George Hill more than most everyone here(except Ace). I have had his back a lot and think he was used terribly here. But I'd take Jeff Teague over George Hill 10 times out of 10 to be the PG for my team. I very much value his ability to make life easier for other players on the floor with his passing and vision.

    Thats not to say I think Teague is better than Hill, I think they are in the same tier, I just love having a PG who can make plays the way he does.
    Last edited by Dr. Awesome; 03-16-2017 at 01:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    All I'm going to say on the matter is Jeff Teague is much, much better than you want him to be.
    I've literally NEVER said that he is a bad player. But please continue with that idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I don't really get punishing Teague because he's not George Hill. I get that Ace likes Hill (understatement), but it's not like Teague staged a coup or something. What's the point in rooting against the guy? Just stupid. (cue, "I'm not rooting against him but here are the reasons I crap on him consistently" response)
    I admittedly have a vested interest in his production due to who he replaced and the constant arguments I've had on here. If that means I'm more critical in my analysis then so be it. But I'm FAR from the only one who does it.

    Sollozzo hates on KD and the shape of the league as a whole, Vnzla hates on basically every other player from the previous Pacer regime, FOS is critical of every current Pacer, and several posters are overly critical of the refs and their supposed bias against the BnG.

    I could go on, but you get the point.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I've literally NEVER said that he is a bad player. But please continue with that idea.
    I didn't say that you claimed he was bad. I said that he is better than you want him to be.

    You said yourself you wanted to see Jeff Teague fail. So throughout the season you've taken every chance you have gotten to criticize him. Thats perfectly fair, I don't think any player should be above criticism if the aren't doing what we need them to do. But, my point is that he is better than what you want to admit.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    Yea, I don't get it either. Like you, I agree with Ace in most cases, but I just don't understand this one at all.

    I even like George Hill more than most everyone here(except Ace). I have had his back a lot and think he was used terribly here. But I'd take Jeff Teague over George Hill 10 times out of 10 to be the PG for my team. I very much value his ability to make life easier for other players on the floor with his passing and vision.

    Thats not to say I think Teague is better than Hill, I think they are in the same tier, I just love having a PG who can make plays the way he does.
    Outside of the first few weeks, Im not rooting against the guy. But the expectation that was argued here for months was that Teague was an all star player. So that's the level in which I'm grading him against.

    When he was playing at a high level, I gave him praise. When he's struggled, I've pointed it out and been critical. What's the issue?

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Outside of the first few weeks, Im not rooting against the guy. But the expectation that was argued here for months was that Teague was an all star player. So that's the level in which I'm grading him against.

    When he was playing at a high level, I gave him praise. When he's struggled, I've pointed it out and been critical. What's the issue?
    He has had a nearly identical season to his All Star season, with his best year in assists average.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    I didn't say that you claimed he was bad. I said that he is better than you want him to be.

    You said yourself you wanted to see Jeff Teague fail. So throughout the season you've taken every chance you have gotten to criticize him. Thats perfectly fair, I don't think any player should be above criticism if the aren't doing what we need them to do. But, my point is that he is better than what you want to admit.
    I believe him to be in the 2nd tier of PGs in the league. Apparently nobody reads that when I state it.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I believe him to be in the 2nd tier of PGs in the league. Apparently nobody reads that when I state it.
    You kind of do this thing where you say he is a good player, but then describe him as anything but.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    He has had a nearly identical season to his All Star season, with his best year in assists average.
    Production on a team struggling to make the playoffs isn't the same as production on a team that's leading the conference.

    Pretty sure you told me that during an argument before

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Production on a team struggling to make the playoffs isn't the same as production on a team that's leading the conference.

    Pretty sure you told me that during an argument before
    We're still 6th in the East, so not quite the same as a non playoff team IMO

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    We're still 6th in the East, so not quite the same as a non playoff team IMO
    I didn't say they were a non playoff team. But they are 2 games away from that reality.

    They'll obviously make it due to the ineptness toward the bottom of the EC. But that's not the point.

    I won't go Since86 on you, but you're contradicting yourself. Either production matters no matter the team situation, or production only matters when a team is winning at a higher level. It shouldn't be one or the other depending on the player in question.

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  32. #73
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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Outside of the first few weeks, Im not rooting against the guy. But the expectation that was argued here for months was that Teague was an all star player. So that's the level in which I'm grading him against.

    When he was playing at a high level, I gave him praise. When he's struggled, I've pointed it out and been critical. What's the issue?
    I'd say you mostly gave him backhanded compliments when he was playing well. I'm sure there were a few exceptions, but even when he was playing well, you didn't seem to want to fully give him credit.

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    I'd say you mostly gave him backhanded compliments when he was playing well. I'm sure there were a few exceptions, but even when he was playing well, you didn't seem to want to fully give him credit.
    It's always kind of a, "he's playing well right now, but..." type of thing imo

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    Default Re: Post game--A Tale of Two Games

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I didn't say they were a non playoff team. But they are 2 games away from that reality.

    They'll obviously make it due to the ineptness toward the bottom of the EC. But that's not the point.

    I won't go Since86 on you, but you're contradicting yourself. Either production matters no matter the team situation, or production only matters when a team is winning at a higher level. It shouldn't be one or the other depending on the player in question.
    And they're 2.5 games away from 5th, 4.5 games from home court advantage, 3.5 games from being a top 10 team in NBA. So saying they're a couple or a few games away from something goes either way.

    The point is Teague is putting up around his All Star year numbers on the 6th best team in the East.

    So he's putting up good numbers on a playoff team, not sure why you would diminish that besides that it's Teague.

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