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Thread: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichi View Post
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    Then you won't pay a single player in the league the max. Not a single guy out there that goes 100% on both sides of the ball every single game. I know a lot of the trade-PG camp is all about this ideal NBA, but it's not much of an existing thing. Go watch Curry every game and tell me he brings it on D every night. Go watch LeBron (dude even sits some games out while healthy), go watch GOATbrook (who doesn't up his defensive intensity til playoffs), etc. You all want to believe in something that doesn't exist right now. Kawhi is the closest thing to this imo, and fwiw I would put PG on par with him in the playoffs.
    Personally I would rather have a player sit out an occasional game so he can 100% every game he does play, than one that only gives 50% effort a lot of the time. I'd rather watch the bench players give it their all trying to win, and see younger players get developmental minutes, than a starter half-*** it out there in a losing effort.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown Bang! View Post
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    Never know with today's players but in the event PG wouldn't return to the Pacers for the 5/180 contract it would be great if he would agree to a sign and trade for those dollars to a team that would offer some legit value.
    Players can't get extra money by agreeing to sign-and-trades anymore. If PG wants to sign elsewhere, whether outright or thru S&T, he'll have to give up money, period.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Players can't get extra money by agreeing to sign-and-trades anymore. If PG wants to sign elsewhere, whether outright or thru S&T, he'll have to give up money, period.
    Definitely fit's the make it easy to stack up stars in one city model....

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Paul's value is dropping around the league. He dropped from an 89 to an 87 in nba2k17. It's getting serious.
    Lifelong pacers fan

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    I hope PG doesn't make All-NBA. I think he stays with Pacers, it would help with the salary cap

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by BornIndy07 View Post
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    I hope PG doesn't make All-NBA. I think he stays with Pacers, it would help with the salary cap
    O think he stays regardless. 5/180 or 5/219 each also come with a huge raise next year and either offer blows away the 4/123 that he would have to take from any other team
    Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

    Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Players can't get extra money by agreeing to sign-and-trades anymore. If PG wants to sign elsewhere, whether outright or thru S&T, he'll have to give up money, period.
    The league is really trying to make star players stay with their original franchises.

    I know I'm in the minority but I am not a fan of that. I think everyone should be able to make the same amount regardless of where they play.

  11. #83

    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    I think even if Paul qualified for the dpe he wouldn't get that 219 million. I think they could offer him more than the 180 and still give him that incentive to stay without taking up that much cap space.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    If the Pacers offered PG anything lower than the absolute max they are allowed to under the salary cap, PG's agent will hang up the phone and stop taking calls from them.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    I think the NBA needs to raise the luxury tax. If some players are gonna be on $200 mil deals, lux tax has to go up for teams to survive. A $10 mil bump in the luxury tax would help a lot.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    PG coasting is still worth a max contract imo
    I'd say so, even if it's solely on a dollars and cents generated by his marketability as opposed to the haul he would bring in return. Will the Pacers seriously contend with him throughout his career? Maybe for the odd season or two where they get the right mix of players--like the selfish dudes era, but I guess it's a similar crapshoot with the assets received in a trade. Just amazing to think $200 million is the cost of a 3rd to 6th seed versus what, 6th to 9th place with the assets coming this way in a trade? Don't even try to say they'd win something silly like 15 games all year. They'd still be average, just with a lower ceiling for a year or two.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    PG already took less once, he's not doing it again

    Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Pepperidge Farm remembers:



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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post
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    I'd say so, even if it's solely on a dollars and cents generated by his marketability as opposed to the haul he would bring in return. Will the Pacers seriously contend with him throughout his career? Maybe for the odd season or two where they get the right mix of players--like the selfish dudes era, but I guess it's a similar crapshoot with the assets received in a trade. Just amazing to think $200 million is the cost of a 3rd to 6th seed versus what, 6th to 9th place with the assets coming this way in a trade? Don't even try to say they'd win something silly like 15 games all year. They'd still be average, just with a lower ceiling for a year or two.


    Well you could pay Paul the $200 mil but structure the contract a certain way where it doesn't eat up too much cap per year. There are all kind of ways to get around these things.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Well you could pay Paul the $200 mil but structure the contract a certain way where it doesn't eat up too much cap per year. There are all kind of ways to get around these things.
    no you can't, most it could increase/decrease from one year to the next is 7.5%

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    no you can't, most it could increase/decrease from one year to the next is 7.5%
    It wouldn't hurt to try it anyway. See if the league knows its own rules.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    PG already took less once, he's not doing it again

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    When? His last extension was a max contract

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by BornIndy07 View Post
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    When? His last extension was a max contract
    There are max contracts and there are max contracts. PG was eligible for up to 30% of the salary cap (Derrick Rose rule), when the normal max for a player of his experience was 25% of the cap. He and the Pacers ended up settling on a contract which was ~27% of the cap. So technically he wasn't paid the maximum that he could have been, though he was being paid more than other players on "max" contracts.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    There are max contracts and there are max contracts. PG was eligible for up to 30% of the salary cap (Derrick Rose rule), when the normal max for a player of his experience was 25% of the cap. He and the Pacers ended up settling on a contract which was ~27% of the cap. So technically he wasn't paid the maximum that he could have been, though he was being paid more than other players on "max" contracts.
    So do you think he'd really "freak out" if we extended him the max under the new cap instead of the $200 mil golden goose deal?

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    So do you think he'd really "freak out" if we extended him the max under the new cap instead of the $200 mil golden goose deal?
    Hard to say for sure, but psychologically I'd think it would feel better for PG if the Pacers offered the maximum that they possibly can. That's generally been the rule since the individual player max was put into the CBA.

    But, we're in uncharted waters right now. PG will most likely be the first player to test the new rule. Will the 35% max turn out to be too much for some teams, compared to the old 30% max? The Kings for example decided they'd rather not pay Cousins the 35%, but Cousins and the Kings are both special cases in a lot of ways. I guess we're going to find out just how much the Pacers want PG to stay.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    So do you think he'd really "freak out" if we extended him the max under the new cap instead of the $200 mil golden goose deal?
    I think it really will depend on draft night. If the Pacers make a serious winning move or clear space for free agency, you could maybe convince PG to cut a couple percentages off of his pay for a better roster.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Manguera View Post
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    I honestly don't recall his effort being questioned. I know people wanted him to be a better defender and rebounder but he never was or was gonna be those things and it wasn't due to lack of effort IMO. PG has shown that when he plays with effort he IS those things.
    Oh, no, "Hollywood" Reggie was quite often accused of only playing hard in spotlight games like the playoffs or against the Knicks.

    People remember what they want to remember - and also, one man's "down night scoring" is another man's "didn't give any effort and doesn't care".
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Oh, no, "Hollywood" Reggie was quite often accused of only playing hard in spotlight games like the playoffs or against the Knicks.

    People remember what they want to remember - and also, one man's "down night scoring" is another man's "didn't give any effort and doesn't care".
    While I generally agree with people remembering what they want to remember, you also need to bear in mind the ages of a lot of us. When Reggie was doing his thing I was between like 8-20. You tend to be less critical and less knowledgable when you're that age.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    While I generally agree with people remembering what they want to remember, you also need to bear in mind the ages of a lot of us. When Reggie was doing his thing I was between like 8-20. You tend to be less critical and less knowledgable when you're that age.
    Thus I would expect folks that age to ask whether it was the case than emphatically point out their experience that Reggie was never questioned in this way by anyone. In fairness, most people do exactly that. But being in that "non-critical" age range at the time doesn't allow someone to claim anything more sweeping than that they themselves never said such things.

    Paul and Reggie have both been questioned for effort (as was JO in his time and Danny in his) because they are the team leaders and are expected by fans to be always on. They are mostly judged by their stat line because people can argue about intangibles until the cows come home.

    Of that group, though, Paul has the fewest things for people to complain about regarding his actual abilities. Personally, I think his ball handling is his only overwhelming weakness and every other aspect of his game is above average. I would not say that any of the other historical team leaders had only a single overwhelming flaw.
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Thus I would expect folks that age to ask whether it was the case than emphatically point out their experience that Reggie was never questioned in this way by anyone. In fairness, most people do exactly that. But being in that "non-critical" age range at the time doesn't allow someone to claim anything more sweeping than that they themselves never said such things.

    Paul and Reggie have both been questioned for effort (as was JO in his time and Danny in his) because they are the team leaders and are expected by fans to be always on. They are mostly judged by their stat line because people can argue about intangibles until the cows come home.

    Of that group, though, Paul has the fewest things for people to complain about regarding his actual abilities. Personally, I think his ball handling is his only overwhelming weakness and every other aspect of his game is above average. I would not say that any of the other historical team leaders had only a single overwhelming flaw.
    I think paul is actually probably above average at ball handling for a SF. I would criticize his shot selection and general decision making a lot more than his ball handling.
    Lifelong pacers fan

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