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Thread: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

  1. #51
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    Is there a feeling on here that PG maybe has one foot out the door? I wonder about his commitment sometimes. I think PG feels like the Pacers were going to get better, quicker with his growth, but now maybe looks at a constant changeover in style and/or personnel fit. Of course. I'm probably just being overly concerned what our team would look like if PG were to ask or demand a trade.
    I just hope we get playoff PG this year. If we do and it is not the Cavs in the first round anything is possible. Staying or going I have no control over that and I am not going to
    worry about it. Would prefer he stays.
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  2. #52
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I definitely think we are a lot closer to contending with Paul than we would be without him, but I think he's going to bolt in free agency. Hence my seat on the "trade PG" wagon.
    Same here.
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  3. #53
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Wasn't Reggie Miller always judged by playoff performance? Didn't Reggie complain too much to refs?
    True. But did anyone ever question Reggie's effort on a regular basis, including the regular season? Reggie came to play every night. I think that's the thing that frustrates people the most about PG. I know it frustrates me.
    A healthy man takes a crap every day. A smart man does it on company time.

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  5. #54
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    No way in **** do I want to give a max contract to somebody who won't bring it every night.
    It's hard to argue with that. Paul has not given effort or his energy is down because his effort stats are down across the board.

  6. #55

    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Here's the thing. If you trade PG, who the **** are you getting? I mean seriously. Somebody else said it, you're not getting a top 5 player. You're not getting another top 10 player. Pay him the money, who cares. Its not my money. Its no different than Andrew Luck. He's not worth that money at this point, he had a down year, right? But if you don't pay him then who are you getting? Some role players? A high draft pick? And? Whats the chances it becomes as good as PG?

    Look, PG pisses me the **** off. OFF. Because is way better than that. He should be averaging AT LEAST 25 PPG in today's soft NBA. Maybe he worries about his leg still. Maybe he's just not as good. Maybe he doesn't have the consistent motor, honestly some guys are like this and if thats the case, IT WILL NEVER CHANGE. You have that motor, Kawhi Leonard, Tyler Hansborough. Or you don't PG, Lavoy Allen.

    But, you still have to keep him. You're not going to get anywhere near close to equal value. If you think we're mediocre now(we are), then wait until you see our team without him.

    I don't know, maybe we have to just work on getting a better team around him. It sucks you have to do that but stars come with baggage. Baggage comes in many forms, you're going to have to put up with SOMETHING from your "star". It comes with the territory, unless their names are Reggie Miller and Tim Duncan. In PG's case, its not really off the court stuff, or headcase stuff, or anger issues, or clashing with teammates, bucking authority. In his case its, "I won't play hard if I don't feel we have a chance, I don't want to have to do everything". My thing is, he really doesn't have to do everything. He needs to step up when team needs him. When we're on a scoring drought, when the other team is scoring on us, Kawhi will make some kind of defensive play, deflection, something. Its like PG doesn't sense these moments and he just "lets the game come to him" as he said in an interview a few months back.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Manguera View Post
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    True. But did anyone ever question Reggie's effort on a regular basis, including the regular season? Reggie came to play every night. I think that's the thing that frustrates people the most about PG. I know it frustrates me.

    Yes they questioned his effort in the regular season. His defense and rebounding was often done without enough effort.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    PacersDigest.com: A place where you're only allowed to not know what will actually happen. Any speculation will be met with hostility by a mod.
    Hostility? Because I put forth my opinion that no one knows what PG is going to do?

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    No way in **** do I want to give a max contract to somebody who won't bring it every night.
    Right? I mean if he gave a **** this season Pacers could have been top 3 instead of bottom 3, that is the difference between home court advantage or not.

    Also he gets paid very well every game not give a **** that often.
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    PG coasting is still worth a max contract imo

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Yes they questioned his effort in the regular season. His defense and rebounding was often done without enough effort.
    I honestly don't recall his effort being questioned. I know people wanted him to be a better defender and rebounder but he never was or was gonna be those things and it wasn't due to lack of effort IMO. PG has shown that when he plays with effort he IS those things.
    A healthy man takes a crap every day. A smart man does it on company time.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    I have no problem paying PG the max. I do have a problem with pretending this team is better than it is. I'm not sure we are one piece away from the second round, let alone contending. I think PG is a fantastic player, but the most likely scenario is him exercising his player option having not won a playoff series since before he broke his leg. I don't like that future at all so I'm trading him and jump starting the rebuild we are going to be forced to do soon anyway.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    No way in **** do I want to give a max contract to somebody who won't bring it every night.
    Then you won't pay a single player in the league the max. Not a single guy out there that goes 100% on both sides of the ball every single game. I know a lot of the trade-PG camp is all about this ideal NBA, but it's not much of an existing thing. Go watch Curry every game and tell me he brings it on D every night. Go watch LeBron (dude even sits some games out while healthy), go watch GOATbrook (who doesn't up his defensive intensity til playoffs), etc. You all want to believe in something that doesn't exist right now. Kawhi is the closest thing to this imo, and fwiw I would put PG on par with him in the playoffs.
    Last edited by Ichi; 03-04-2017 at 01:36 AM.

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  20. #63
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichi View Post
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    Then you won't pay a single player in the league the max. Not a single guy out there that goes 100% on both sides of the ball every single game. I know a lot of the trade-PG camp is all about this ideal NBA, but it's not much of an existing thing. Go watch Curry every game and tell me he brings it on D every night. Go watch LeBron (dude even sits some games out while healthy), go watch GOATbrook (who doesn't up his defensive intensity til playoffs), etc. You all want to believe in something that doesn't exist right now. Kawhi is the closest thing to this imo, and fwiw I would put PG on par with him in the playoffs.


    There's a lot of guard/scoring talent available this off-season.


    Gordon Hayward
    Tim Hardaway Jr.
    KCP
    Dion Waiters
    Ben Mclemore
    Otto Porter Jr.
    Carmelo Anthony



    Larry has plenty of options to build around Paul with scoring talent.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    There's a lot of guard/scoring talent available this off-season.


    Gordon Hayward
    Tim Hardaway Jr.
    KCP
    Dion Waiters
    Ben Mclemore
    Otto Porter Jr.
    Carmelo Anthony



    Larry has plenty of options to build around Paul with scoring talent.
    They don't really need high usage scorers though. The Pacers really just need shooters who can defend and pass. The best teams rarely have many ball stoppers or isolation guys and as much as coaches will preach ball movement, if the player just isn't that type of player, it won't work (Ellis, Stuckey, Big Al). I'd love to get KCP or Porter but it will be nearly impossible. However, if the Pacers clear up some space before free agency, it would easily be a 2 way race between the Jazz and Pacers for Hayward.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
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    They don't really need high usage scorers though. The Pacers really just need shooters who can defend and pass. The best teams rarely have many ball stoppers or isolation guys and as much as coaches will preach ball movement, if the player just isn't that type of player, it won't work (Ellis, Stuckey, Big Al). I'd love to get KCP or Porter but it will be nearly impossible. However, if the Pacers clear up some space before free agency, it would easily be a 2 way race between the Jazz and Pacers for Hayward.


    Yeah KCP and Porter are pipe dreams. Only because 48 hours now for restricted free agency instead of 72. So a big offer could really screw with someone's Summer with just 2 days to match. We need a starting shooting guard and then a bench shooting guard.

  23. #66
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichi View Post
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    Then you won't pay a single player in the league the max. Not a single guy out there that goes 100% on both sides of the ball every single game. I know a lot of the trade-PG camp is all about this ideal NBA, but it's not much of an existing thing. Go watch Curry every game and tell me he brings it on D every night. Go watch LeBron (dude even sits some games out while healthy), go watch GOATbrook (who doesn't up his defensive intensity til playoffs), etc. You all want to believe in something that doesn't exist right now. Kawhi is the closest thing to this imo, and fwiw I would put PG on par with him in the playoffs.
    Exactly. A lot of posters seem to want to get rid of PG, thinking that there is a PG-that-plays-with-100%-effort-every-night out there. Guess what, that guy doesn't exist, and if somehow that paragon did, he's not likely to be available to the Pacers. Work with what you have, not with what you wish to have.

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  25. #67
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    I have no problem paying PG the max. I do have a problem with pretending this team is better than it is. I'm not sure we are one piece away from the second round, let alone contending. I think PG is a fantastic player, but the most likely scenario is him exercising his player option having not won a playoff series since before he broke his leg. I don't like that future at all so I'm trading him and jump starting the rebuild we are going to be forced to do soon anyway.
    Maybe that's so. It would still be better to attempt signing PG to an extension regardless. Having a signed PG is much better trade leverage than having a pending FA PG.

    Look, the Pacers will offer PG a megabucks extension in the offseason. That's the rational decision. No other decision needs to take place before that. If PG refuses the extension, then and only then would I consider the trade him before he bolts argument.

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  27. #68
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Maybe that's so. It would still be better to attempt signing PG to an extension regardless. Having a signed PG is much better trade leverage than having a pending FA PG.

    Look, the Pacers will offer PG a megabucks extension in the offseason. That's the rational decision. No other decision needs to take place before that. If PG refuses the extension, then and only then would I consider the trade him before he bolts argument.
    I agree that you absolutely have to offer the extension. I just don't think there is any real reason for him to sign it, unless he qualifies for the DPE.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    I agree that you absolutely have to offer the extension. I just don't think there is any real reason for him to sign it, unless he qualifies for the DPE.
    The extension he can get if he doesn't qualify for the DPE is still 5/180 with something like a 10 mil raise next year on top of that. The most any other team can offer him in 2018 is 4/123. That's still one heck of a reason to sign an extension.
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Only thing is that I think last season, PG looked as good as he ever did pre-injury, so I don't really think the injury is an issue. It makes for a nice narrative, but to me, it's more about effort than anything else.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    Welcome to my world. God forbid i want another direction to be taken by this team. All hell breaks loose then.
    Honestly I just find you over the top negative about absolutely everything.
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Yes they questioned his effort in the regular season. His defense and rebounding was often done without enough effort.
    Nobody seems to have a very objective memory about reggie.
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  35. #73
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Can't help but feel that the DPE is too steep. Would be great if PG's play over the next season and a half would merit the contract but just not feeling it. Short of PG being MVP caliber that contract would IMO require the Simons to go over the luxary tax if they wanted to build a legit contender.

    Never know with today's players but in the event PG wouldn't return to the Pacers for the 5/180 contract it would be great if he would agree to a sign and trade for those dollars to a team that would offer some legit value.

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  37. #74
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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Hostility? Because I put forth my opinion that no one knows what PG is going to do?
    Saying that anyone who has an opinion about the matter should go to Vegas to back it up.

    This is a forum, people are going to speculate, its 95% of what happens here, woulda thought you'd know that by now.

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    Default Re: [ESPN] Zach Lowe on Paul George

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And they're putting up pretty much the same offensive efficiency. 104.6 last year compared to 105.3 this year. Probably more to do with newness of Nate, rather than the gains they've made offensively.
    Wrong. This year their offensive efficiency is way higher at 108.0. You were looking at this year's PPG, which is up from 102.2 last year.

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