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Thread: Political News and Policies

  1. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Post the federal statute, Indiana Code section or case law that Donald Trump or his son has broken. I will review it.
    52 U.S. Code 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

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    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    52 U.S. Code 30121 - Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
    I have already posted and reviewed that. Trump Jr. will not be found to have broken this law. A contribution in the context of a campaign finance law is not going to apply to information or a discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I have already posted and reviewed that. Trump Jr. will not be found to have broken this law. A contribution in the context of a campaign finance law is not going to apply to information or a discussion.
    Why not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Why not?
    Any legal precedent involving that statute, regarding contributions, almost certainly involves financial contributions only. So, this means any case involving these facts would likely have to set new precedent. That is very unlikely considering this is a campaign finance statute. The term "contributions" in that context are going to be interpreted to be financial contributions. In other words, good luck convicting Donald Trump Jr. on these facts.

    Personally, I would not be shocked if something took him and Sr. down but I don't think this is going to be it.

    The collusion/conspiracy part of this has the left worked up. But it is not actionable. It is not illegal and not going to be treason for Trump Jr. to talk to the Russians. It just isn't. We'll see how this thing works about...but that's why I think he will never be found guilty of that statute.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Any legal precedent involving that statute, regarding contributions, almost certainly involves financial contributions only. So, this means any case involving these facts would likely have to set new precedent. That is very unlikely considering this is a campaign finance statute. The term "contributions" in that context are going to be interpreted to be financial contributions. In other words, good luck convicting Donald Trump Jr. on these facts.

    Personally, I would not be shocked if something took him and Sr. down but I don't think this is going to be it.

    The collusion/conspiracy part of this has the left worked up. But it is not actionable. It is not illegal and not going to be treason for Trump Jr. to talk to the Russians. It just isn't. We'll see how this thing works about...but that's why I think he will never be found guilty of that statute.
    I mean, there almost certainly is more to this, and I'm sure money is involved. But I think if there was ever a time contribution could be defined by something other than monetary value this is it.

    But when you're less than 6 months into an investigation and this is happening, it's a safe bet there's more to come.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I mean, there almost certainly is more to this, and I'm sure money is involved. But I think if there was ever a time contribution could be defined by something other than monetary value this is it.

    But when you're less than 6 months into an investigation and this is happening, it's a safe bet there's more to come.
    I will give you that. There is a minefield of laws out there and Trump Jr. was flirting with them. But it remains to be seen if he or anyone involved committed a crime.

    Personally, I don't think Jr. thought he was doing anything wrong. Do you? That matters a lot to me and should to everyone else here. If I thought he knew he was doing something illegal or unethical, I would have a problem with that. He was gathering dirt (emails, lies, etc.) on a person who he and most of America thinks is dishonest.

    Go back to Richard M. Nixon. I am glad that information got out and he paid for his dishonesty. And he was a Republican...and a smart guy...and I liked his style for the most part. But it's not right that he get away with it.

    Edit: Also, consider this. Jr. is a political novice, yet he probably deals with people all the time internationally. It wasn't until later that the liberals started blaming Russia for losing the election. He wasn't on notice at all that conversations with the Russians were questionable moves on his part. I agree they are tip toeing a line that he would have to be careful on. We'll see if he crossed the line. I just don't have a problem with what he honestly did.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 07-13-2017 at 10:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Personally, I don't think Jr. thought he was doing anything wrong. Do you? That matters a lot to me and should to everyone else here. If I thought he knew he was doing something illegal or unethical, I would have a problem with that. He was gathering dirt (emails, lies, etc.) on a person who he and most of America thinks is dishonest.
    this is the dumbest **** I have ever read. the mother****er took part in the subversion of the American electoral process and you're on board with it because he's stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    this is the dumbest **** I have ever read. the mother****er took part in the subversion of the American electoral process and you're on board with it because he's stupid.
    You guys lost and are just grasping at straws. The left has gone insane. Talking to people isn't illegal.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    You guys lost and are just grasping at straws. The left has gone insane. Talking to people isn't illegal.
    Doing ilegal things is ilegal it doesn't matter if that person is stupid or not.


    This is like making excuses for a guy trying to get together with a 14 years old girl by email but when he gets there the police is waiting for him, I don't think he is going to get away with it by telling the police "well I didn't commit a crime because I thought I was going to get a 14 years old girl but instead I got a 300 pound dude".


    What orange Jr did was a crime and he should be going to jail that is a fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Doing ilegal things is ilegal it doesn't matter if that person is stupid or not.


    This is like making excuses for a guy trying to get together with a 14 years old girl by email but when he gets there the police is waiting for him, I don't think he is going to get away with it by telling the police "well I didn't commit a crime because I thought I was going to get a 14 years old girl but instead I got a 300 pound dude".


    What orange Jr did was a crime and he should be going to jail that is a fact.
    You are off the rails, Vinny. There are two things going on. One you care about (i.e. the law). The other you don't (i.e. ethics). I actually do care about both.

    Personally, I don't think this is going anywhere. A suit has been filed and they have used pretty good language defining what they believe is an "in kind contribution". It has a chance to stick but I will have to see that to believe it.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Default Re: Political News and Policies

    Any time Trumpsters ..

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    Default Re: Political News and Policies

    I'm frustrated because Republicans' vision has destroyed Democrats' vision at the ballot box in recent years, so it was all perfectly set up for Republicans to implement their policy. Obama left his party in shambles, then the Democrats topped it off by nominating a horrible candidate in Hillary. It was all set up for Republicans to pass the legislation that they were elected to do. As I've said for a while, Republicans never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Democrats operate with incredible tactical efficiency when they have power. There are clear leaders who lay the agenda, then everyone gets in line like good soldiers. Republicans OTOH are all over the place and you have too many different branches of the party.

    Even I can't deny that the Trump administration just can't ever get out of its way. At this point they really have no one to blame but themselves for the fuel they've given their critics. Their credibility has shrunk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I'm frustrated because Republicans' vision has destroyed Democrats' vision at the ballot box in recent years, so it was all perfectly set up for Republicans to implement their policy. Obama left his party in shambles, then the Democrats topped it off by nominating a horrible candidate in Hillary. It was all set up for Republicans to pass the legislation that they were elected to do. As I've said for a while, Republicans never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Democrats operate with incredible tactical efficiency when they have power. There are clear leaders who lay the agenda, then everyone gets in line like good soldiers. Republicans OTOH are all over the place and you have too many different branches of the party.

    Even I can't deny that the Trump administration just can't ever get out of its way. At this point they really have no one to blame but themselves for the fuel they've given their critics. Their credibility has shrunk.
    The GOP has bigger problems than general inefficiency. They can be dysfunctional and still stay in power. But if they don't get a viable brand of their version of health care passed, they will lose in droves. I will vote Democrat if they don't get it passed and you know that's insane.

    As for Trump, I am glad to see Fox turning on him. Hopefully that means the GOP turns on him and he gets ejected. I never wanted him to be president anyway and I'm hoping and praying Mike Pence comes to power in the next 6 months.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    OK...the GOP is going to vote on this sucker when McCain comes back. If they do not draft a bill that makes health insurance reasonably priced for people with pre-existing conditions, they are going to lose both the house and the senate...and maybe the White House in 2020. This is such a big deal for people.

    Why? Because their base includes a lot of older people with pre-existing conditions. People don't want a hand out. They want something reasonably priced that can keep them alive and not have them go bankrupt. Nothing more.

    BUT...if they get this right they may well be in power another decade.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Both parties are a mess. Democrats implemented a bunch of disastrous legislation that was firmly rejected by voters. Republicans OTOH are so inept from a tactical standpoint that they can't even pass anything of substance. Just a joke all around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Both parties are a mess. Democrats implemented a bunch of disastrous legislation that was firmly rejected by voters. Republicans OTOH are so inept from a tactical standpoint that they can't even pass anything of substance. Just a joke all around.
    Obama ran on Obamacare and was elected by very large margins in high voter turnout twice. Trump was elected with the lowest number in our lifetime. I think saying voters firmly rejected Obamacare is a stretch at best.

    But I agree both parties are a mess. Republicans don't really have any plans and just scaremonger, then when they get in they have nothing. Democrats used to be good at winning national elections and creating policy that helps people despite being just as corrupt as republicans, but now they can't even do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    You guys lost and are just grasping at straws. The left has gone insane. Talking to people isn't illegal.
    You do realize that for their to be an investigation of Trump, which there is, it has to have republican support?

    you've said it yourself that there is likely more to this. We're 6 months in!

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    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    You do realize that for their to be an investigation of Trump, which there is, it has to have republican support?

    you've said it yourself that there is likely more to this. We're 6 months in!
    This is not surprising at all. The GOP hates Trump as much as the Democrats. There is only a handful of people who defend him or make that try to defend him. I fully expect both parties and the media to do everything possible to get him impeached and removed. The only reason that I have any interest at all in defending him is that he is undoubtedly going to be treated unfairly even given all of the asinine things he says and does. Similar to the world of sports I do not like cheating because it completely ruins the game for me.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Obama ran on Obamacare and was elected by very large margins in high voter turnout twice. Trump was elected with the lowest number in our lifetime. I think saying voters firmly rejected Obamacare is a stretch at best.

    But I agree both parties are a mess. Republicans don't really have any plans and just scaremonger, then when they get in they have nothing. Democrats used to be good at winning national elections and creating policy that helps people despite being just as corrupt as republicans, but now they can't even do that.
    If Obama's policies were liked by voters, they would win without Obama. Every time the policies were on the ballot box without him (10, 14, 16), Democrats got slaughtered. There's no doubt that he could win big time as he did it twice, but much of his success was due to his abstract populism and pop culture icon historical status. A lot of the people who voted for him obviously didn't care enough to vote for his policies when he wasn't on the ballot.

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    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    If Obama's policies were liked by voters, they would win without Obama. Every time the policies were on the ballot box without him (10, 14, 16), Democrats got slaughtered. There's no doubt that he could win big time as he did it twice, but much of his success was due to his abstract populism and pop culture icon historical status. A lot of the people who voted for him obviously didn't care enough to vote for his policies when he wasn't on the ballot.
    Imagine if his policies worked AND he was not intentionally devisive in the 2012 election cycle. He might have surpassed Reagan's 58% popular vote.

    His supporters were disappointed when his policies never brought on the utopia he had them sold on. When he noticed he was failing to deliver, he went back to the old liberal playbook.

    There actually wasn't anything attractive about his candidacy in 2012. He just had so much support from his base and liberals in general. It was a lot like George W winning in 2004 with Bush being just about as popular and unpopular.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 07-18-2017 at 06:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    If Obama's policies were liked by voters, they would win without Obama. Every time the policies were on the ballot box without him (10, 14, 16), Democrats got slaughtered. There's no doubt that he could win big time as he did it twice, but much of his success was due to his abstract populism and pop culture icon historical status. A lot of the people who voted for him obviously didn't care enough to vote for his policies when he wasn't on the ballot.
    If we're being honest people don't vote policies they vote a slogan. Unless something terrible happens like war or what Trump is about to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Imagine if his policies worked AND he was not intentionally devisive in the 2012 election cycle. He might have surpassed Reagan's 58% popular vote.

    His supporters were disappointed when his policies never brought on the utopia he had them sold on. When he noticed he was failing to deliver, he went back to the old liberal playbook.

    There actually wasn't anything attractive about his candidacy in 2012. He just had so much support from his base and liberals in general. It was a lot like George W winning in 2004 with Bush being just about as popular and unpopular.
    You guys, you're reading too much into this. A single party winning POTUS three times in a row doesn't happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    You guys, you're reading too much into this. A single party winning POTUS three times in a row doesn't happen.
    Not sure what your point is by saying that. Adam is just saying that his policies didn't win him votes. I'm saying they weren't good policies and basically failed his excited voters who later became suicidal. OK, I guess I didn't go that far, but the point is that he was a huge disappointment as a POTUS. He was George W. Bush level including his popular vote by the time voters arrived at the polls in 2012. That is a far cry from what he was supposed to be. He was supposed to be the next MLK and while he gave some great speeches and is a very bright guy, when his policies had the chance to be tested by reality, they failed. Fell flat as a pancake.

    BTW, his signature bill, ACA, is a disaster. In 2018 Indiana is set to have no option in 89% of the counties in the state. While I am actually pro health care, it was done very poorly. If the GOP leadership wasn't so stingy they could get this right and control Congress for another decade if they'd just do it.

    You know, the worst thing about some in the GOP is that they fight health care. The worst thing about Democrats is that they support immoral things like abortion. I wish these parties would get it right. You have to help those who cannot help themselves. That includes not killing them before they are born. It also includes helping people afford health care if they truly cannot afford it.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 07-18-2017 at 09:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Political News and Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    You guys, you're reading too much into this. A single party winning POTUS three times in a row doesn't happen.
    Well it did happen when Bush succeeded Reagan, but anyway, it's not just the presidency though. Democrats have lost virtually everything of relevance at the national and state levels since 2010, with the exception being Obama's re-election. It's been complete Republican domination at the ballot box.

    Now Republicans of course never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. The party is so sloppy and all over the place, with no one ever getting behind a clear leader. Contrast that to Democrats who are good soldiers when they have power by getting behind the leaders. About the only thing Republicans offer now is that they are a shield against Democrat legislation.

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