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Thread: Paul George is not tough enough

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    I suggest you go over historical DATA which would not suggest but SHOW that we were one of the highest spending teams in the league in the years around and after 2000 WELL in to the lux tax
    The Simons have indeed spent decently and have overall been good owners. Their biggest fault is that they are overly loyal to their GM's. Walsh never had his feet held to the fire in the 2000's. Bird won't ever feel any heat either. GM of the Pacers is a lifetime appointment.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'll disagree with you about lock down defense, but still PG is still clearly the best wing defender on the team and it isn't even close. So the solution to a crappy defense and horrible rebounding is to take your best wing defender and play him in a position where his defensive strengths are negated. He's not big enough bulk wise to battle for defensive rebounds from down low, he's a swoop in rebounder. So you've taken away your best wing defense, put him at a position where he's clearly undersized and doesn't offer a solution to your major rebounding problem.

    It was a dumb idea 16months ago, and it's a dumb idea now. And if someone brings up the even more idiotic idea that it creates an offensive mismatch, I'm going to blow a gasket.
    I'm not saying PG playing the 4 is the problem. I'm saying it was a better option last night due to injuries and matchup.

    It's Bird's fault, but PG could help the team while Thad is injured.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I'm not saying PG playing the 4 is the problem. I'm saying it was a better option last night due to injuries and matchup.

    It's Bird's fault, but PG could help the team while Thad is injured.
    PG guarding Morris doesn't move the needle any IMHO. Morris, along with Porter, got their looks through penetration from Wall. Putting PG on doesn't change the fact that PG would still need to help out to cover the lane and then have to get back to the shooter. Lavoy/Kevin are slow, but PG's quickness wasn't going to correct the problem. It's like treating a headache instead of stopping the blood flow from a cut off limb.

    I've said it all season, Pacers are in a constant state of rotations defensively. That is the most difficult way to play defense, and it's doubly hard now with teams relying so heavily on stretch 4s. Good defense starts with controlling ballhandlers, and the Pacers absolutely suck at it.
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  5. #104
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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    PG guarding Morris doesn't move the needle any IMHO. Morris, along with Porter, got their looks through penetration from Wall. Putting PG on doesn't change the fact that PG would still need to help out to cover the lane and then have to get back to the shooter. Lavoy/Kevin are slow, but PG's quickness wasn't going to correct the problem. It's like treating a headache instead of stopping the blood flow from a cut off limb.

    I've said it all season, Pacers are in a constant state of rotations defensively. That is the most difficult way to play defense, and it's doubly hard now with teams relying so heavily on stretch 4s. Good defense starts with controlling ballhandlers, and the Pacers absolutely suck at it.
    Look at Otto's threes last night, not many came off penetration. They literally just pass the ball around he ends up wide open because we are constantly chasing because PG isn't paying attention on wing and/or our double center lineup is too slow.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    So that explains why the Pacers, as a team, gave up 26 open to wide open 3pta last night because PG wasn't paying attention? They gave up 12 wide open 3s, and 14 open 3s. The Pacers, as a team, give up 24.7 3pta per game that are open to wide open for the season. This is an on going problem.

    EDIT: Washington shot 29 3pta last night and 26 of them didn't have a defender within 4ft, and it's PG's problem? Okay......
    Last edited by Since86; 02-17-2017 at 12:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So that explains why the Pacers, as a team, gave up 26 open to wide open 3pta last night because PG wasn't paying attention? They gave up 12 wide open 3s, and 14 open 3s. The Pacers, as a team, give up 24.7 3pta per game that are open to wide open for the season. This is an on going problem.

    EDIT: Washington shot 29 3pta last night and 26 of them didn't have a defender within 4ft, and it's PG's problem? Okay......
    Huh? I just said Otto, I rewatched his 3s because that was who PG was guarding.

    And I'm also not saying we still don't have an problem with giving up open 3s.

    All I'm saying is, PG, last night, was a better option at the 4 than what we were doing. I believe we cut it to single digits when we played CJ at the 4.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    And yes, PG gets caught just not paying attention a lot more this season. He has not been the same player defensively. I'm at every game and he moves with no urgency or aggression as of late.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Huh? I just said Otto, I rewatched his 3s because that was who PG was guarding.
    Yeah. You're limiting to Otto, when the problem wasn't just on his 3s. When the same thing occurs to the shooter that PG is guarding, and to the players that he isn't guarding, it suggests that the problem isn't PG not paying attention but rather a problem with the defense as a whole. It's not as simple as pointing a finger to one player, when the problem involves ALL of them.

    When 26 out of 29 are open to wide open 3pta, it's more than just one defender. We need to look at a common cause, because PG didn't guard every single player on the floor last night who took a 3. Let's look at forest, and not the tree.
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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yeah. You're limiting to Otto, when the problem wasn't just on his 3s. When the same thing occurs to the shooter that PG is guarding, and to the players that he isn't guarding, it suggests that the problem isn't PG not paying attention but rather a problem with the defense as a whole. It's not as simple as pointing a finger to one player, when the problem involves ALL of them.

    When 26 out of 29 are open to wide open 3pta, it's more than just one defender. We need to look at a common cause, because PG didn't guard every single player on the floor last night who took a 3. Let's look at forest, and not the tree.
    Again, there are several problems. Not one player. Agree!

    All I'm saying is PG at the 4 could have helped last night.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    The problem is that the backcourt can't control ball penetration. The problem isn't just last night. It's a problem ALL YEAR long. "Falling asleep" is such a lazy way of explaining what happened. It ignores that it happens to every defender, regardless of position on the Pacers. Unless we're to think that there isn't a single player on the Pacers who can stay awake, and the coaching staff can't motivate them enough to do so, it suggests that "falling asleep" isn't what the problem is.


    It's such a cop out. It places the blame one person and ignores everything else.

    The problem starts with Teague. And it continues with the defense from the PG position. We can't expect the defense to have to help to stop penetration and get out to shooters. That's not "falling asleep." The problem still there even if PG's man doesn't take a single 3pta.

    I just get sick and tired of things that is clearly the result of the team concept being put on the scapegoat to get the pound of flesh out of them. Does PG occasionally fall asleep? You bet. I can't count the number of times he's been backdoored in his Pacer career. Is that why Porter and the rest of the Wizards and every team that plays the Pacers get open 3pta? Hell no.
    Last edited by Since86; 02-17-2017 at 01:13 PM.
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  13. #111

    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    He's not big enough bulk wise to battle for defensive rebounds from down low, he's a swoop in rebounder. So you've taken away your best wing defense, put him at a position where he's clearly undersized and doesn't offer a solution to your major rebounding problem.
    Draymond Green - 6-9, 230.
    Serge Ibaka - 6-10, 235.
    Taj Gibson - 6-9, 234.
    Markeef Morris - 6-10, 240.

    PG 6-9, 220.

    I don't see an issue. And if you compare him to SFs, he SHOULD be able to use his height and weight as an advantage - on both offense and defense. He just doesn't. Or - he just doesn't want to.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Official weight listings are worthless. They put whatever they want in there. If you can't see the physical size difference between those players and PG, then you're too blind for me to help you. And I'm not talking about height. I'm talking about body mass.
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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Official weight listings are worthless. They put whatever they want in there. If you can't see the physical size difference between those players and PG, then you're too blind for me to help you. And I'm not talking about height. I'm talking about body mass.
    Even if you want to look at weight, 15lbs is a good difference on the basketball court

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Draymond is listed at 6'9? Dude's like 6'6.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Draymond is listed at 6'9? Dude's like 6'6.
    He's listed at 6'7

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    6' 5.75" without shoes at the combine. The listings aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    The problem is that the backcourt can't control ball penetration. The problem isn't just last night. It's a problem ALL YEAR long. "Falling asleep" is such a lazy way of explaining what happened. It ignores that it happens to every defender, regardless of position on the Pacers. Unless we're to think that there isn't a single player on the Pacers who can stay awake, and the coaching staff can't motivate them enough to do so, it suggests that "falling asleep" isn't what the problem is.


    It's such a cop out. It places the blame one person and ignores everything else.

    The problem starts with Teague. And it continues with the defense from the PG position. We can't expect the defense to have to help to stop penetration and get out to shooters. That's not "falling asleep." The problem still there even if PG's man doesn't take a single 3pta.

    I just get sick and tired of things that is clearly the result of the team concept being put on the scapegoat to get the pound of flesh out of them. Does PG occasionally fall asleep? You bet. I can't count the number of times he's been backdoored in his Pacer career. Is that why Porter and the rest of the Wizards and every team that plays the Pacers get open 3pta? Hell no.
    This isn't what I was suggesting, although I do disagree that Teague has been a bad defender all season.

    All I'm saying is last night PG playing 4 would have helped. We have other problems, but we cut it to single digits with CJ at the 4. Paul would have been a nice option.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    All I'm saying is last night PG playing 4 would have helped.
    How exactly? Even if you're "falling asleep" position is right, does having him guard Morris magically wake him up or something?
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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...indiana-pacers

    So it all begins, we will see what happens if this season continues to go downhill.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    The only thing that would have made a difference last night is if Wall didn't play. Last week when the Pacers played the Wizards Wall's +/- was +21, last night it was +18.

    Really against the Wizards, PG should play point guard.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    How exactly? Even if you're "falling asleep" position is right, does having him guard Morris magically wake him up or something?
    Maybe you misunderstood me saying PG fell asleep. It was a few plays, it wasn't the only thing that happened. My main point was they were just working the ball around and then Otto was open without penetration.

    So no, magically waking up PG isn't a thing. The defense on the wing was bad, so we're not losing anything there. PG paired up with Al Jeff or Myles at 4 for parts of the game could have given us a scoring punch and maybe slow down Morris.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Jax View Post
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    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...indiana-pacers

    So it all begins, we will see what happens if this season continues to go downhill.
    Okay, I'll put this article in the "The writing is on the wall" category.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

  27. #123
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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Okay, I'll put this article in the "The writing is on the wall" category.
    Man, PG is easy to read. He probably would like the money but he is not invested. My only question now is what we can get for him. He is a great player. It's a shame he's of sub-par character. This didn't start with the stripper getting pregnant or the Catfish incident. Dude just isn't quality.

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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Paul's main issue is that he doesn't want to bang in the paint. He's probably too soft and doesn't want shown up. It's not about his size. It's about his toughness and strength. He cannot defend the post and he probably does belong at a wing position because of that notwithstanding the fact he has the size and certainly length and athleticism to do it.

    The reality is, he's Bosh soft but softer.

  29. #125
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    Default Re: Paul George is not tough enough

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    He is a great player. It's a shame he's of sub-par character. This didn't start with the stripper getting pregnant or the Catfish incident. Dude just isn't quality.
    ... Wow.

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