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Thread: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Why would you limit it to post touches when Myles is a jump shooting big? The point of the exercise isn't to look at a subcategory of his touches, but rather all of his touches on the offensive end and compare it to the number of FGA he takes. Okay let's not use CJ, let's use AlJeff. The only reason he gets any PT at all is to put up shots. Al gets 16 touches in the front court and takes 7.2 FGA per game. He's shooting 45% of the time. Putting up a shot 4 out of every 10 touches is a LOT of shots compared to the number of touches.

    If Myles was to take it upon himself and just shoot more, instead of the team looking to get him the ball more, Myles would be averaging one shot every other touch. I think 14FGA per game is the area that Myles needs to be at. That number would put him above one out of every two.


    I bet the list of players who shoot the ball once out of every two touches is extremely short. Get the guy more touches. Not only does he need more touches to get more shots, but it also would help him stay active in the game. He plays over 31mpg and his total possession time is 1mpg. His number of touches makes him seem like an offensive afterthought. And that's because he is. He has the lowest amount of front court touches out of the starting 5.
    Because Myles passes out of his post touches more often than he should. And looking at his overall touches and eye test, he simply does not take advantage of all his touches.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    I'd be happy if Myles shot the ball once out of every two front court touches, but that's not a realistic expectation. I doubt there's a rotational player in the entire NBA that does that. I'd rather see him be more involved overall in the offense, which would get him more touches and get him more FGA than to simply tell him to shoot it more often.

    This is a two prong problem. It's not just Myles.
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    I mean, Turner and Porz are getting the same touches a game, 50. Whiteside getes 45. Boogie and Gasol get 75. Seems like Turner is right where he should be touches wise.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Front court touches, which are touches on the offensive end of the floor. Getting a defensive rebound and out letting the ball counts as an overall touch. I want to look at touches on the offensive end. Porz, for example, gets 10 more touches in the offense than Myles. Whiteside gets 18 more offensive touches. Boogie gets almost 20 more. Gasol gets more than double.

    EDIT: Whiteside gets 4 less.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-07-2017 at 02:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Front court touches, which are touches on the offensive end of the floor. Getting a defensive rebound and out letting the ball counts as an overall touch. I want to look at touches on the offensive end. Porz, for example, gets 10 more touches in the offense than Myles. Whiteside gets 18 more offensive touches. Boogie gets almost 20 more. Gasol gets more than double.
    I guess I still think Myles needs to do more with what he gets and make himself available. Whiteside gets more touches by offensive rebounding and going to the rim.

    Porz having 10 more touches than Myles is interesting, but Porz is a better offensive player right now. You can dump it to him and he can make a move that's not a fadeaway.

    EDIT: If Whiteside is getting 4 less touches than Turner that's interesting. Does Myles deserve the ball more than Whiteside?

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    How about this way. There are 145 players in the NBA that average 10pts or more. 121 of them get more offensive touches than Myles. 64 average 15pts or more. 62 get more front court touches, and that one player who gets less is Whiteside.
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    How about this way. There are 145 players in the NBA that average 10pts or more. 121 of them get more offensive touches than Myles. 64 average 15pts or more. 62 get more front court touches, and that one player who gets less is Whiteside.
    I think you have to separate the bigs, they just touch the ball less in general.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Also, Turner is 2nd on the team in shot attempts per game. If the goal is to get him more shots, surely he can do it on the couches he's getting.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    EDIT: If Whiteside is getting 4 less touches than Turner that's interesting. Does Myles deserve the ball more than Whiteside?
    Yes. Whiteside does what he does better than Myles, i.e. roll to the rim, catch and dunk, offensive rebound but Myles is by far and away better offensively overall than Whiteside.
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Also, Turner is 2nd on the team in shot attempts per game. If the goal is to get him more shots, surely he can do it on the couches he's getting.
    He's tied with Teague. Teague 70 front court touches to Myles 27. I'm not saying Myles needs 70 touches, but.......
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    He's tied with Teague. Teague 70 front court touches to Myles 27. I'm not saying Myles needs 70 touches, but.......
    It's only .1 but Myles is second on the team in shot attempts.

    I'll meet you half way and say yes, I want Turner to get a handful of more touches, but that's not the biggest problem. And especially right now he doesn't deserve them.

    The issue is he is not going strong when he should. It happens a few times a game. If he does that he will get more attempts, his teammates will get him the ball more and the problem you're concerned about fixes itself. Myles is 3rd in usage among the starters.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    I think you have to separate the bigs, they just touch the ball less in general.
    9 centers average 15pts or more. 7 of them touch the ball more than Myles. B.Lopez is #7 on the touches list, Myles being #8, and he gets 12 more front court touches. That's how big the gap is between the next one above Myles.
    28 centers average 10 or more. 15 get more touches. Myles gets 1 more touch than Drummond, who is rarely used offensively.
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    9 centers average 15pts or more. 7 of them touch the ball more than Myles. B.Lopez is #7 on the touches list, Myles being #8, and he gets 12 more front court touches. That's how big the gap is between the next one above Myles.
    28 centers average 10 or more. 15 get more touches. Myles gets 1 more touch than Drummond, who is rarely used offensively.
    I guess I don't see BLopez having more touches than Myles a surprise, Lopez is much better offensive player right now.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    I didn't want to look at all 28 centers who averaged 10pts or more so I shortened it down to 13pts or more which makes the list 15. (#fct = # of front court touches)

    Player #fct FGA % of shots to touches
    Kanter 21.6 10.2 47.2
    Whiteside 22.4 12.5 55.8
    Drummond 25.3 12 47.4
    Turner 26.6 11 41.3
    DHoward 28.6 8 27.9
    Gobert 31.1 7.1 22.8
    Vucevic 38.3 13.4 34.9
    BLopez 38.9 15.4 39.5
    Jokic 39.2 11.1 28.3
    KAT 43.8 17.7 40.4
    Embiid 45 13.8 30.6
    Horford 47 12.2 25.9
    ADavis 48.8 20.4 41.8
    MGasol 54.8 16 29.1
    Cousins 61.3 19.9 32.4

    EDIT: I did have it formatted out easier to read but PD.....
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I didn't want to look at all 28 centers who averaged 10pts or more so I shortened it down to 13pts or more which makes the list 15. (#fct = # of front court touches)

    Player #fct FGA % of shots to touches
    Kanter 21.6 10.2 47.2
    Whiteside 22.4 12.5 55.8
    Drummond 25.3 12 47.4
    Turner 26.6 11 41.3
    DHoward 28.6 8 27.9
    Gobert 31.1 7.1 22.8
    Vucevic 38.3 13.4 34.9
    BLopez 38.9 15.4 39.5
    Jokic 39.2 11.1 28.3
    KAT 43.8 17.7 40.4
    Embiid 45 13.8 30.6
    Horford 47 12.2 25.9
    ADavis 48.8 20.4 41.8
    MGasol 54.8 16 29.1
    Cousins 61.3 19.9 32.4

    EDIT: I did have it formatted out easier to read but PD.....
    The problem remains that this doesn't illustrate how often Myles pass up shots. He is number 2 on the team in attempts only to Paul George.

    I would say everyone on that list is a more decisive scorer than Myles. Literally every single player listed.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    I can't get all that excited about Myles Turner right now. Seems like his whole game is perimeter/outside.

    And he doesn't follow through on his shot. Just an irritating non-fundamental.

    I'm glad we have him. He's good, but not great. However, I'm really not interested in him getting more touches. Probably less until he finds a way to create better percentage shots in the post.
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Post scoring for Myles is coming no earlier than next season. In all honesty, I still am not convinced it will ever be a part of his game. He may turn out to be a pure finesse/perimeter big offensively. He doesn't seem to naturally sit down in the post and hold position. I just don't know if his body type is cut out for it. Even if he can build lower-body strength, he seems stiff through his upper legs and hips. He might develop it. He might not. Either way he can still be a good player. I just don't know that we should expect him to automatically become an accomplished low-post threat.
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    I'm only worried because he looks lost right now and I dont trust Nate to get him coached up right.

    I think coaching is everything in sports. I think it shows on the court or the field. Like with the Colts. I mean you see dudes on the Colts that look terribly coached. I'm scared Myles is falling into this . I think Nate is terrible. And we're borderline about to let Myles slip into habbits that he might not get out of if we keep Nate as the coach.
    On what are you basing myles being terribly coached?
    Lifelong pacers fan

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I can't get all that excited about Myles Turner right now. Seems like his whole game is perimeter/outside.

    And he doesn't follow through on his shot. Just an irritating non-fundamental.

    I'm glad we have him. He's good, but not great. However, I'm really not interested in him getting more touches. Probably less until he finds a way to create better percentage shots in the post.
    I just don't see Turner as having this superstar ceiling. He's a great guy and I want to see him as a core player of our future but I also want to pair Turner with a physical big man capable of defending the paint to cover Turner's weak defense, no more 6'8" 220 lb front court players next to Turner.
    We can build contender with Turner as a core player just not as a franchise player.
    Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

    Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I just don't see Turner as having this superstar ceiling. He's a great guy and I want to see him as a core player of our future but I also want to pair Turner with a physical big man capable of defending the paint to cover Turner's weak defense, no more 6'8" 220 lb front court players next to Turner.
    We can build contender with Turner as a core player just not as a franchise player.
    He's got the size, length, shooting touch, temperament, and work ethic that you look for in a modern 5. Those things are hard to teach. He can work on being aggressive; he can adopt that mindset.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    He's got the size, length, shooting touch, temperament, and work ethic that you look for in a modern 5. Those things are hard to teach. He can work on being aggressive; he can adopt that mindset.
    He has a ton of positive attributes and I'm not putting him down. Turner could turn out to be our modern era Rik Smits but he's not even there yet. I don't think Turner will ever be a good post defender because he shys away from contact. I see a bright future for Turner but I don't see franchise player potential.
    I've seen people post that Turner will be the best Pacer ever, I don't see that, it's o.k. to just be a good player and I think people need to curb their expectations on Turner, give him time and accept what he is.
    Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

    Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    He has a ton of positive attributes and I'm not putting him down. Turner could turn out to be our modern era Rik Smits but he's not even there yet. I don't think Turner will ever be a good post defender because he shys away from contact. I see a bright future for Turner but I don't see franchise player potential.
    I've seen people post that Turner will be the best Pacer ever, I don't see that, it's o.k. to just be a good player and I think people need to curb their expectations on Turner, give him time and accept what he is.
    Right now, I 100% agree: Myles is Charmin soft. But I think you can teach aggressiveness. I think confidence plays a big part in that too.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    It's not clear to me what people expect. Kevin Garnett is as close to Myles Turner as any former superstar big. Garnett's sophomore numbers were not as good. Yes he scored a couple more points a game but was on the floor a lot more and shot more for a lower percentage...had less rebounds...lower FT%...lower 3%. On paper, Myles Turner looks better than Kevin Garnett at the same age. Off the court he acts like a human being (unlike Garnett). Again, what do people expect out of the 20 year old? He's not going to be in his prime for 5 years.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Post scoring for Myles is coming no earlier than next season. In all honesty, I still am not convinced it will ever be a part of his game. He may turn out to be a pure finesse/perimeter big offensively. He doesn't seem to naturally sit down in the post and hold position. I just don't know if his body type is cut out for it. Even if he can build lower-body strength, he seems stiff through his upper legs and hips. He might develop it. He might not. Either way he can still be a good player. I just don't know that we should expect him to automatically become an accomplished low-post threat.
    I think everyone should take a deep breath and forget about Turner being a post threat. It's OK. The Pacers can still have a post game without their C being the threat.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    He's got the size, length, shooting touch, temperament, and work ethic that you look for in a modern 5. Those things are hard to teach. He can work on being aggressive; he can adopt that mindset.
    He doesn't rebound the ball well enough to hold down the fort at the 5 while playing next to a smallball 4

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