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Thread: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

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    Default Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    His numbers for February have been meagre to say the least...

    Scoring at season-low, rebounding at season-low

    Shooting .400 / .214 from 3-point range which both are some 15 points below his season averages...

    Are we about to see Myles hitting the slump due to not being ready for the workload he has been asked to carry? Remember, he has already played 200 more minutes than he did whole last season...

    I am not worried about Myles the basketball player - not the least. A somewhat non-physical big man at the age of 20 is most understandably not yet developed to carry the load of 82-game NBA season of heavy minutes at the Center position. Getting worn and fading is natural and in no way diminish what he will be able to achieve for us in many seasons to come.


    But if Turner's production falls to WARP Zero -levels, how the heck are we going to actually remain competitive. Then we are haphazard collection of hit-and-misses with a fully mortal big two. Time to notch down expectations?

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Eh, were only 10 days into the month and Myles has been battling Bronchitis. I think he's gonna be just fine. What i am sick of is him getting only 9,10 shots or so throughout a bunch of games. Get this guy some more looks at the hoop, he's got to be more involved offensively, I dont care how young he is. He's probably the teams best shooter and our 2nd most talented scorer. Get this man some more freaking shots!! Geez
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Forgot the bronchitis...

    Hopefully it is just that. But am I really criticising him if I take he have to carry unfair workload too young?

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by PetPaima View Post
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    His numbers for February have been meagre to say the least...

    Scoring at season-low, rebounding at season-low

    Shooting .400 / .214 from 3-point range which both are some 15 points below his season averages...

    Are we about to see Myles hitting the slump due to not being ready for the workload he has been asked to carry? Remember, he has already played 200 more minutes than he did whole last season...

    I am not worried about Myles the basketball player - not the least. A somewhat non-physical big man at the age of 20 is most understandably not yet developed to carry the load of 82-game NBA season of heavy minutes at the Center position. Getting worn and fading is natural and in no way diminish what he will be able to achieve for us in many seasons to come.


    But if Turner's production falls to WARP Zero -levels, how the heck are we going to actually remain competitive. Then we are haphazard collection of hit-and-misses with a fully mortal big two. Time to notch down expectations?
    We'll be in trouble if he doesn't break out of it. Then you credit Bird/Pritchard for not giving us another capable, dependable big for the roster.
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
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    Eh, were only 10 days into the month and Myles has been battling Bronchitis. I think he's gonna be just fine. What i am sick of is him getting only 9,10 shots or so throughout a bunch of games. Get this guy some more looks at the hoop, he's got to be more involved offensively, I dont care how young he is. He's probably the teams best shooter and our 2nd most talented scorer. Get this man some more freaking shots!! Geez
    Great point. I constantly find myself asking the same question. Why is it so hard to make sure he consistently gets more shots?
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Great point. I constantly find myself asking the same question. Why is it so hard to make sure he consistently gets more shots?
    Because teams know to block the passing lanes and we suck at forcing it to him? Also because he tends to touch the ball early about 12 feet from the basket and passes it off as part of ball movement rather than taking the quick shot?
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Because teams know to block the passing lanes and we suck at forcing it to him? Also because he tends to touch the ball early about 12 feet from the basket and passes it off as part of ball movement rather than taking the quick shot?
    This may very well be the answer to that question. Next question is why does he pass it off? If Myles is the best shooter on the team and we are getting him the ball within 12 feet or so, why isn't he being told to take the shot? Make the defense force him to pass the ball. Quicker pace, best shooter, good shot, what am I missing?

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Myles is hitting a wall. Due to the thumb/hand injury last year, I think he averted hitting that wall. He basically had a nice vacation during the year. Now he's getting the true grind of his first full season.
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    My lesson is struggling right now, for sure. I'm not sure what it is, but I suspect he'll come out of it soon.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Really nothing to do with the recent slump but am I the only one who thinks Myles worries too much about people closing out on his mid-range jumper? I see him pull that shot down often when at his height and length he can could easily still get the shot off.

    Next level stuff for a big man at his age & level of development for sure but when he learns to be a true triple threat off that elbow catch it will be fun to watch.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    I think its just the bronchitis. Normally he is a high energy player and he has just looked unusually sluggish. That would probably explain it.
    Lifelong pacers fan

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    He'll be just fine after the all star break.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Everybody still positive about this?

    ...and I'm still not blaming Myles - I just see it as a natural procession that a big man is not ready for 82-game NBA schedule at age of 20.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    I think he will break back through before the season is over.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Cousy47 View Post
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    This may very well be the answer to that question. Next question is why does he pass it off? If Myles is the best shooter on the team and we are getting him the ball within 12 feet or so, why isn't he being told to take the shot? Make the defense force him to pass the ball. Quicker pace, best shooter, good shot, what am I missing?
    He shoots it if he's wide open or its late in the clock. Outside that he is afraid to do much else besides pass because he doesn't have confidence. When his 3 point shot was falling that filled that gap of not having any post moves, but Myles literally has no other move around the rim that doesn't involve going away from the rim to avoid contact, not high percentage shots.

    Best bet this season is his 3 point shot starts to fall again (was 40% before February, last month shot 22%) because he's not going to develop a post game overnight.

    Good thing is he can pass and shoot, so if he just get a little bit more aggressive around the rim and his shots starts to fall he is still a valuable offensive player.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Also, he doesn't make himself available very well. I just can't get mad about his lack of shot attempts because its pretty much all his own doing.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    I talked about this before the season. It is normal. The determining factor of whether he can get to the next level is if he can adjust to other teams figuring him out.

    My biggest concern for him is still on defense. While I think a lot of it is that he is told by the scheme to float near the rim - and bear in mind I have not had a chance to examine the defensive scheme since the "big change" without having to depend on what cameras decide to show - he tends to look like he isn't quite sure where to go and it was a big reason why we have had to help off the perimeter so much.

    He needs to be spending some personal time between now and the end of the season working on something different to do in the playoffs, and just get through this next month without completely losing confidence.

    I am gratified to see that some of the biggest "Myles doesn't get enough shots!" complainers have come to realize he gets lots of touches but refuses the shot.
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    My concern is about two things that are directly related. He is often in the wrong place on offense. he often doesn't run the play that the rest of the team is running. It happened last night, Myles was on the right elbow area and PG was waving him off of that spot because the play call was for a pick and roll with PG and Teague, but with Myles there, they tried to run it and it didn't work well. I don't know why Myles has trouble with this. Does he not listen? Does he forget? Does he not know the plays?

    Similar on defense, he is often not where he is supposed to be based upon what the opponent is running on offense. BillS explained this better than I can.

    There are times when he seems like he is just standing there when he is supposed to be either rebounding or at least blocking his man out.

    I think right now, Turner is overrated, he is not as good as most think he is. That is not to say he can't get a lot better, and that doesn't mean he won't be an allstar caliber player in a couple of seasons.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    I worry that he is just tried physically and mentally. Most every game he runs the most miles or 2nd most to PG13. They show stats on the big board at the games.

    I don't see other teams stats on miles ran per game, but doesn't seem ideal for your 7 footer to have to run that much. Does it?
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
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    I worry that he is just tried physically and mentally. Most every game he runs the most miles or 2nd most to PG13. They show stats on the big board at the games.

    I don't see other teams stats on miles ran per game, but doesn't seem ideal for your 7 footer to have to run that much. Does it?
    It's not ideal, but he isn't really unique in that regard either. Amongst players with a height > 6-10, he ranks 10th (link), with a couple of other second-year players ahead of him.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    My concern is about two things that are directly related. He is often in the wrong place on offense. he often doesn't run the play that the rest of the team is running. It happened last night, Myles was on the right elbow area and PG was waving him off of that spot because the play call was for a pick and roll with PG and Teague, but with Myles there, they tried to run it and it didn't work well. I don't know why Myles has trouble with this. Does he not listen? Does he forget? Does he not know the plays?

    Similar on defense, he is often not where he is supposed to be based upon what the opponent is running on offense. BillS explained this better than I can.

    There are times when he seems like he is just standing there when he is supposed to be either rebounding or at least blocking his man out.

    I think right now, Turner is overrated, he is not as good as most think he is. That is not to say he can't get a lot better, and that doesn't mean he won't be an allstar caliber player in a couple of seasons.
    Myles is like most young bigs in that he plays a lot better mentally when he's more involved offensively.

    His fatigue and offensive struggles are starting to manifest into mental lapses as well.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I am gratified to see that some of the biggest "Myles doesn't get enough shots!" complainers have come to realize he gets lots of touches but refuses the shot.
    It's not an either/or thing, it's both. Myles doesn't do a good job at demanding the ball and the Pacers as a whole don't do a good job at forcing him the ball. He's never, not one single time in his whole career, taken more than 19FGA in a game. He's only taken 15+ FGA 5 times this season. He gets 27 touches in the front court per game and gets 11 FGA per game. So he's shooting the ball 41% of the time he touches it. CJ, for example, has the reputation of shooting when he touches the ball and he shoots 46% of his touches.

    Myles gets a ton of shots for the very little amount of touches he gets. Does he not look at the basket enough? Damn right. Does he get enough touches? Nope.



    Larry talked about not putting too much on Myles' shoulders in one of the interviews he did a couple weeks ago, said he thought they were bringing him along at the right pace. So clearly, when it look at Bird's comments, Myles touches, and the number (or lack there of) of FGA it shows that it's not just Myles and him not forcing the issue but rather a concentrated effort of not giving him too much. Which I think is silly when you look at his shooting%, because he's clearly been handling the small amount they've given him. Yes he's in a slump, but even his slump is pretty damn good. 40% from the field is almost average shooting% for the rest of the team, but it's down right awful for Myles.
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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    It's not an either/or thing, it's both. Myles doesn't do a good job at demanding the ball and the Pacers as a whole don't do a good job at forcing him the ball. He's never, not one single time in his whole career, taken more than 19FGA in a game. He's only taken 15+ FGA 5 times this season. He gets 27 touches in the front court per game and gets 11 FGA per game. So he's shooting the ball 41% of the time he touches it. CJ, for example, has the reputation of shooting when he touches the ball and he shoots 46% of his touches.

    Myles gets a ton of shots for the very little amount of touches he gets. Does he not look at the basket enough? Damn right. Does he get enough touches? Nope.



    Larry talked about not putting too much on Myles' shoulders in one of the interviews he did a couple weeks ago, said he thought they were bringing him along at the right pace. So clearly, when it look at Bird's comments, Myles touches, and the number (or lack there of) of FGA it shows that it's not just Myles and him not forcing the issue but rather a concentrated effort of not giving him too much. Which I think is silly when you look at his shooting%, because he's clearly been handling the small amount they've given him. Yes he's in a slump, but even his slump is pretty damn good. 40% from the field is almost average shooting% for the rest of the team, but it's down right awful for Myles.
    The CJ Miles example is bad. Myles is getting 5 touches in the paint per game, most on the team, and passing it out instead of going to the rim to get fouled or score.

    CJ often gets the ball where he should be swinging it or passing it. So of course CJ % of shots on touches isn't the same as Turner. CJ gets .4 touches in the paint to Turner's 5 touches!

    To put that in perspective, Whiteside gets 6.6 touches in the paint per game, Marc Gasol 3.3

    Turner even gets more TOTAL touches a game than Whiteside. Porz gets one more touch a game.

  34. #24

    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    I'm only worried because he looks lost right now and I dont trust Nate to get him coached up right.

    I think coaching is everything in sports. I think it shows on the court or the field. Like with the Colts. I mean you see dudes on the Colts that look terribly coached. I'm scared Myles is falling into this . I think Nate is terrible. And we're borderline about to let Myles slip into habbits that he might not get out of if we keep Nate as the coach.

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    Default Re: Myles Turner hitting "Sophomore Slump"

    Why would you limit it to post touches when Myles is a jump shooting big? The point of the exercise isn't to look at a subcategory of his touches, but rather all of his touches on the offensive end and compare it to the number of FGA he takes. Okay let's not use CJ, let's use AlJeff. The only reason he gets any PT at all is to put up shots. Al gets 16 touches in the front court and takes 7.2 FGA per game. He's shooting 45% of the time. Putting up a shot 4 out of every 10 touches is a LOT of shots compared to the number of touches.

    If Myles was to take it upon himself and just shoot more, instead of the team looking to get him the ball more, Myles would be averaging one shot every other touch. I think 14FGA per game is the area that Myles needs to be at. That number would put him above one out of every two.


    I bet the list of players who shoot the ball once out of every two touches is extremely short. Get the guy more touches. Not only does he need more touches to get more shots, but it also would help him stay active in the game. He plays over 31mpg and his total possession time is 1mpg. His number of touches makes him seem like an offensive afterthought. And that's because he is. He has the lowest amount of front court touches out of the starting 5.
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