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Thread: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

  1. #51

    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    This idea that Butler only gets FTs because he plays on Chicago (or Paul doesn't get FTs because he plays in indy) is so silly to me
    Jimmy is stronger and more physical as a player for sure, so he would probably get and deserve more FTA than Paul anywhere. That said I live in Chicago I have been watching the Bulls local games for years now and the benefit of the doubt he gets from the stripes isn't comparable to any of our own players, in my humble definitely biased opinion.
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  3. #52
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Btw I think we have the answer now to "who is going to be the scapegoat this season" question.

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Btw I think we have the answer now to "who is going to be the scapegoat this season" question.
    PG13 is the easy answer.....but we know who built this roster, who hired the Coach and has put our Star Player in this position in the first place.

    My answer is the same answer that I had after our very poor start......it's Bird.
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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    PG13 is the easy answer.....but we know who built this roster, who hired the Coach and has put our Star Player in this position in the first place.

    My answer is the same answer that I had after our very poor start......it's Bird.

    I'm ready for Bird to head to Florida permanently really, need a "new voice," but you guys really aren't excusing PG are you? the stuff with Roy or Hill or Lance or whomever in the past, I can see how you'd call that scapegoating. calling out PG for honestly, in my opinion, just going through the motions until he can leave, isn't scapegoating. everything about the dude's body language reads like a foot out the door to me. and hell, I get it, I'd be frustrated too if I were him. but if he's supposed to be the Pacers cornerstone for his entire career he can't be sulking and whining about refs and all that ****. he is, and he's not that, so just why waste time? get the haul for him this summer and move on. PG's 7 years in, he's in his prime right now and we're going nowhere but the 15th pick range again.

    I'm just tired of it man. Show me a plan, show me a vision of growth past Cleveland's twilight.

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    Default I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I'm ready for Bird to head to Florida permanently really, need a "new voice," but you guys really aren't excusing PG are you? the stuff with Roy or Hill or Lance or whomever in the past, I can see how you'd call that scapegoating. calling out PG for honestly, in my opinion, just going through the motions until he can leave, isn't scapegoating. everything about the dude's body language reads like a foot out the door to me. and hell, I get it, I'd be frustrated too if I were him. but if he's supposed to be the Pacers cornerstone for his entire career he can't be sulking and whining about refs and all that ****. he is, and he's not that, so just why waste time? get the haul for him this summer and move on. PG's 7 years in, he's in his prime right now and we're going nowhere but the 15th pick range again.

    I'm just tired of it man. Show me a plan, show me a vision of growth past Cleveland's twilight.
    This. I just don't get why people aren't comfortable calling this out. It's exceedingly obvious to me. I think he can certainly change, so I'm far from writing him off, but if you're going to claim that you're the team's leader, worthy of a designer shoe and a video game cover, play the part.

    Show some freaking fire. Lay into your teammates. Lay into yourself. Lead.

    All he seemingly does is blame others? I'm not impressed.

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  10. #56

    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    I'm not sure how much he stands to make in an extension, lets say 175 million. Are you guys comfortable with that right now? I'm not.

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Btw I think we have the answer now to "who is going to be the scapegoat this season" question.
    So you have no issues with the way PG is playing this year?

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    I used to be of the opinion that you don't trade PG for anything. My opinion has now went from that to you don't trade PG unless you get a big haul. Maybe the Lakers for Randle, Ingram, and Russell (I doubt we get all 3 but it's worth a shot) or Boston for Brown, Bradley, and the nets pick. I know Ainge is desperate for a superstar so maybe the throw in Crowder too? Or multiple picks? Like I said, for me, it's got to be a no-brainer to even consider it. Maybe even the suns for Booker, Chriss, and Bledsoe/Bender/pick? Or the Clippers for Blake Griffin, Reddick, and Crawford?

    I look at what we could get for PG via trade vs him leaving for nothing (and his body language is not so optimistic) and I'm leaning more and more towards cutting bait and starting a fast rebuild with Teague/Turner/Trade assets. That would give us a chance to grow as a team and a bunch of young players entering their prime just as LeBron is leaving. We are in limbo right now and some tough choices will have to be made in the next year and a half.

    (Disclaimer: I know some of these trades are unrealistic and others we would have to add pieces/picks to get some of them done.)

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I'm ready for Bird to head to Florida permanently really, need a "new voice," but you guys really aren't excusing PG are you? the stuff with Roy or Hill or Lance or whomever in the past, I can see how you'd call that scapegoating. calling out PG for honestly, in my opinion, just going through the motions until he can leave, isn't scapegoating. everything about the dude's body language reads like a foot out the door to me. and hell, I get it, I'd be frustrated too if I were him. but if he's supposed to be the Pacers cornerstone for his entire career he can't be sulking and whining about refs and all that ****. he is, and he's not that, so just why waste time? get the haul for him this summer and move on. PG's 7 years in, he's in his prime right now and we're going nowhere but the 15th pick range again.

    I'm just tired of it man. Show me a plan, show me a vision of growth past Cleveland's twilight.
    I'm preparing to dodge the feces about to head my way, but Bird out...Hinkie in? Or maybe not Hinkie specifically because I could never, ever see Simon signing off on a tear down/rebuild like that (even if he did learn some lessons from Philly), but maybe an analytics guys or at least someone who is not as old school as it gets.

    Edit: I do agree with you all that PG's attitude/effort is a problem. It's not fun to watch, and judging by the body language of the other players, not always a ton of fun to play with. I think it's a bad idea all the way around, unless we get a Godfather offer, to trade him in season, but something like a Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, Nets pick deal this offseason would be awfully tempting.
    Last edited by cdash; 01-23-2017 at 10:18 AM.

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Still say we should have traded him for Blake before the season. Blake plus Turner provides more than PG plus Turner. If we did that and pulled off a trade to get PJ Tucker, this team would be very solid. If Tucker and Griffin bolt at the end of season, you rebuild around Turner. If they stay, you go for the championship. But that dream is gone

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I'm ready for Bird to head to Florida permanently really, need a "new voice," but you guys really aren't excusing PG are you? the stuff with Roy or Hill or Lance or whomever in the past, I can see how you'd call that scapegoating. calling out PG for honestly, in my opinion, just going through the motions until he can leave, isn't scapegoating. everything about the dude's body language reads like a foot out the door to me. and hell, I get it, I'd be frustrated too if I were him. but if he's supposed to be the Pacers cornerstone for his entire career he can't be sulking and whining about refs and all that ****. he is, and he's not that, so just why waste time? get the haul for him this summer and move on. PG's 7 years in, he's in his prime right now and we're going nowhere but the 15th pick range again.

    I'm just tired of it man. Show me a plan, show me a vision of growth past Cleveland's twilight.
    I think the plan and vision are there but if your "star" is pulling a Dwight Howard (about how he wants touches and misses his old teammates) then it doesn't matter what you have.
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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    One intriguing team to pull a trade with could be OKC, they want an star next to Westbrook and I believe they have few good picks to ad to any trade.


    I'm thinking, Adams+Dipo+ picks for PG, Teague, Dipo, Turner and Adams for the future is pretty good.
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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I think the plan and vision are there but if your "star" is pulling a Dwight Howard (about how he wants touches and misses his old teammates) then it doesn't matter what you have.
    True. So, the best thing might then be for our current brass to start sending signals to selective parties that we are interested in some of their players and/or picks before we get much more moaning and things that detract from Paul's current trade value?
    Last edited by Mourning; 01-23-2017 at 01:35 PM.
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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    True. So, the best thing might then be for our current brass to start sending signals to selective parties that we are interested in some of their players and/or picks before we get much more moaning and things that detract from Paul's current trade value?
    I think so, do it at the trade deadline or this summer if possible because at this point I don't know how you get PG to give a **** again, the longer you keep him the less value you are going to get for him.
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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by HickeyS2000 View Post
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    So you have no issues with the way PG is playing this year?
    I think he's playing at 80% effort instead of 100%, i.e. he's coasting. Is that bad? Yes. Does that mean I want to chuck him out for whatever draft picks? No. PG is still our best player by far even at 80% and no draft pick is likely to come close to his on-court value.

    My problem with scapegoating is that it presents a too simple solution to the complex problem of "why do we suck". Scapegoating presents a simple, seductive answer: it's all Player X's fault! Just get rid of him and all our ills will be solved. In reality it's rarely that simple. For example, we're all high on Turner right now because he's young and putting up stats and maybe because Bird called him potentially the best Pacer ever (just don't forget that Bird described Lance in similar terms before!) Give it a couple of years though, and people will pick him apart endlessly. So what does dumping PG accomplish? We'd just be setting up Turner for the same sort of disappointment, whenever the next draft pick starts to look good.

    This is not to say that I'm immune to the temptation of scapegoating either. For instance, I'm a big Monta critic, but I try to avoid making the argument that all our problems will be solved just by moving Monta. Indeed, as we see after Monta's benching, there are still clear issues with the team.

    There are many reasons why we aren't playing well right now, and definitely PG is a factor in that. I just can't imagine any sort of outcome where PG doesn't play a big part in the solution though.
    Last edited by wintermute; 01-23-2017 at 03:18 PM.

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    I can't believe I actually agree with OP. This roster is not gonna cut it, we need to get younger and build around Myles. Moving PG is the obvious way. I personally would love to get Booker + Chandler from PHX, which would work salary wise. Move Myles to the 4 with Tyson at the 5, rebounding problems would go away fast. Its a pipe dream, but these types of trades can happen when you have a top 15 player to work with.

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    I hope we can get 2 bags of Fritos for him, not those damn generic corn chips.
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Reminder for the forgetful, we're just 8 months removed from PG's superstar performance against the Raptors in the playoffs. Didn't hear anyone complaining back then.

    Slag off PG all you want for saving his heroics for the postseason, but there's a certain Pacers legend who did exactly the same.

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    I think he's playing at 80% effort instead of 100%, i.e. he's coasting. Is that bad? Yes. Does that mean I want to chuck him out for whatever draft picks? No. PG is still our best player by far even at 80% and no draft pick is likely to come close to his on-court value.
    Thanks for the response, I completely agree PG is coasting. My problem with him right now is that his coasting and sloppiness is a large part of the problem, yet he always finds a way to blame someone else. Lately it has been the refs. He just doesn't seem to be mentally in it. It is natural to wonder if he has already checked out of Indy as his free-agency looms. It is a bit cynical, but the Durant deal has the entire league on notice.

    Keeping your best player isn't always the answer. Trading PG and going young around Turner is an enticing option and interest should at least be gauged. However I don't think Bird is that GM, as he likely doesn't want to be part of a re-build, and we all know he doesn't like to admit failure.

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I'm ready for Bird to head to Florida permanently really, need a "new voice," but you guys really aren't excusing PG are you? the stuff with Roy or Hill or Lance or whomever in the past, I can see how you'd call that scapegoating. calling out PG for honestly, in my opinion, just going through the motions until he can leave, isn't scapegoating. everything about the dude's body language reads like a foot out the door to me. and hell, I get it, I'd be frustrated too if I were him. but if he's supposed to be the Pacers cornerstone for his entire career he can't be sulking and whining about refs and all that ****. he is, and he's not that, so just why waste time? get the haul for him this summer and move on. PG's 7 years in, he's in his prime right now and we're going nowhere but the 15th pick range again.

    I'm just tired of it man. Show me a plan, show me a vision of growth past Cleveland's twilight.
    Just me personally? I'm not giving PG13 a pass.......I'm just saying that my scapegoat for this season is the guy at the top of this heap ( not PG13 ).

    I'm with you, I'm ready for a new voice.....now, I have no clue who that new voice will be.......but I'm not going to regret it if Bird decides to ride his tractor into retirement at his huge house in French Lick Indiana.
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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    I think he's playing at 80% effort instead of 100%, i.e. he's coasting. Is that bad? Yes. Does that mean I want to chuck him out for whatever draft picks? No. PG is still our best player by far even at 80% and no draft pick is likely to come close to his on-court value.

    My problem with scapegoating is that it presents a too simple solution to the complex problem of "why do we suck". Scapegoating presents a simple, seductive answer: it's all Player X's fault! Just get rid of him and all our ills will be solved. In reality it's rarely that simple. For example, we're all high on Turner right now because he's young and putting up stats and maybe because Bird called him potentially the best Pacer ever (just don't forget that Bird described Lance in similar terms before!) Give it a couple of years though, and people will pick him apart endlessly. So what does dumping PG accomplish? We'd just be setting up Turner for the same sort of disappointment, whenever the next draft pick starts to look good.

    This is not to say that I'm immune to the temptation of scapegoating either. For instance, I'm a big Monta critic, but I try to avoid making the argument that all our problems will be solved just by moving Monta. Indeed, as we see after Monta's benching, there are still clear issues with the team.

    There are many reasons why we aren't playing well right now, and definitely PG is a factor in that. I just can't imagine any sort of outcome where PG doesn't play a big part in the solution though.
    I personally am far from ready to give up on Paul.

    However, as you've rightfully pointed out, he is the key to resolving many of our current plights.

    We are not playing up to our capabilities, and it's up to our team's leader to create some accountability or demonstrate by action/example the high standards consistent with championship contention.

    Look at what Westbrook, Butler, and Harden are doing this year as references.

    His manner is consistent with "not giving much of a damn", and that's concerning to me.
    Last edited by docpaul; 01-23-2017 at 03:56 PM.

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    I think he's playing at 80% effort instead of 100%, i.e. he's coasting. Is that bad? Yes. Does that mean I want to chuck him out for whatever draft picks? No. PG is still our best player by far even at 80% and no draft pick is likely to come close to his on-court value.

    My problem with scapegoating is that it presents a too simple solution to the complex problem of "why do we suck". Scapegoating presents a simple, seductive answer: it's all Player X's fault! Just get rid of him and all our ills will be solved. In reality it's rarely that simple. For example, we're all high on Turner right now because he's young and putting up stats and maybe because Bird called him potentially the best Pacer ever (just don't forget that Bird described Lance in similar terms before!) Give it a couple of years though, and people will pick him apart endlessly. So what does dumping PG accomplish? We'd just be setting up Turner for the same sort of disappointment, whenever the next draft pick starts to look good.

    This is not to say that I'm immune to the temptation of scapegoating either. For instance, I'm a big Monta critic, but I try to avoid making the argument that all our problems will be solved just by moving Monta. Indeed, as we see after Monta's benching, there are still clear issues with the team.

    There are many reasons why we aren't playing well right now, and definitely PG is a factor in that. I just can't imagine any sort of outcome where PG doesn't play a big part in the solution though.

    I really don't think the solution is that complex, if PG is pulling a Howard and draining the fun out of the team while crying and not giving 100% then the solution is simple IMO.
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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Give him to the Lakers for Ingram, Russell and Nance Jr
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    Give him to the Lakers for Ingram, Russell and Nance Jr
    No thanks.
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    Default Re: I would trade Paul George before the deadline

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    No thanks.
    Cost savings, Young guys that still can develop, Nance is a good role player and should be years to come. I think Russell can grow into a winning piece for an NBA team, and Ingram is learning, come one year from now I would say there is no way this deal would happen on LA's side, but right now they need a STAR, would be good for them, good for us and good for PG. He would hopefully be revitalized by being home, and being a Laker. Teague/Russell/Ingram/Young/Turner/ with Monte coming in as a 6th man. Sounds like a good young group to build around.
    Why so SERIOUS

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