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Thread: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

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    Member PetPaima's Avatar
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    Default Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Let's start with few statements!

    1) The jump in salary cap has made Paul George hugely underpaid. He is making roughly same money now as f ex Wesley Matthews , Ryan Anderson , Allen Crabbe , Luol Deng & Joakim Noah

    2) That means there is no way he will honor his player option year. Instead, he will be an UFA in 1 years time.

    3) We are in no position to transform back into a contender at that timeframe () as we have nothing to trade to make improvements (outside PG13 & Myles).

    4) Thus PG13 WILL LEAVE latest on Summer 2018!



    So - while I don't like it - it is best to face reality and start looking the maximum pile of assets we can get for him now...

    As I would hate him to come and bite us regularly for other uniform, I have only considered teams out of West. These are IMO the teams which a) would really have a spot for him, b) have a possibility to facilitate a trade, c) best realistic packages we could get in exchange :

    PLEASE, DO NOT SUGGEST ANYTHING TOO GOOD! Only proposals you would 90% certainly grab in other team's shoes!!!



    LA Lakers : PG13, Seraphin & Niang for Jordan Clarkson, Tarik Black & Larry Nance Jr. (doable by Mid-January as Black's restriction expires)

    Why for us :

    1) In Clarkson, we get a solid lead guard good enough to be 3rd cog in a contender who is under a cheapish contract until 2020.
    2) In Black, we get a blue-collar banger who takes quite a bit of physical toll off Turner. Another affordable contract albeit only 'til 2018.
    3) In Nance Jr., we get an energetic 2-way player who may never be more than emergency filler as a starter, but is deffo a high-level reserve. Lockable for a long time and a certainty to be a fan favorite.

    Why for Lakers :

    PG13 offers them a shortest route back to play-off picture. Possibility of something great soon if DRuss/Randle/Ingram develop fast.

    Why Seraphin/Niang :

    Need to send something cheap to keep the salaries matching. Giving up Black necessitates getting a new back-up center for Lakers. Hence Seraphin...

    Negatives :

    No star or even a potential star received, no meaningful draft picks to add as Lakers can not trade a 1st-rounder before 2021. Some 2nd-rounders could be added, but they will be around #45 so won't move the needle...


    Timberwolves : PG13 + a scrub (Xmas?) for Ricky Rubio, Andrew Wiggins + 2018/2019 2nd-rounders

    Why for us :

    1) Wiggins is developing steadily each year and would be ours for 6-7 more seasons. He could be #1 scorer & #2 talent for a very good team.
    2) Starting line-up of Rubio-CJ-Wiggins-?-Myles has all the possibility to become a STRONG defensive unit with three serious scoring options. Totally selfless Rubio would be a great player to get the usage rate of Myles upto where we want it to be...

    Why for Wolves :

    Rubio has been good, but for too few games a year. Their young talent is intriguing, but none of them has experience in winning. This gives the reins of the team to Lavine/Dunn while PG13 is an accomplished winner and especially play-offs leader.

    Why Xmas :

    Need someone to equal the numbers and prevent a necessity to waive people. He seems to be furthest from the court from our whole roster.

    Negatives :

    Rubio is injury-prone and makes Teague totally redundant (we would need to trade Teague for a defensive PF, hopefully packing Lavoy in to the same trade). Monta would work out adequately as a 6th man with Rubio-CJ starting pair.

    And again - Minnesota is not in position to trade a 1st-rounder before 2022. I am not sure if it is even allowed to trade something so far in future, so no 1st-rounders available here.


    Pelicans : PG13 + Teague (we waive Xmas 1st) for Jrue Holiday, E'Twaun Moore, Alexis Ajinca & two 1st-rounders (2017 + 2019)

    Why for us :

    1) 1st-rounders, 1st-rounders, 1st-rounders....
    2) Holiday has had injury woes and is not THAT great to start with... Still, his current absence is not a worrisome one (except for his wife). His size enables using small SG and cross-match in defense. Thus it helps with trying to get something out of the sunset years of Monta.
    3) Ajinca would (again) help us in physical match-ups while Myles "manlihoods"...
    4) Moore is servicable shooting guard in both ends of the floor. Probably would be our best 2-way guard right now (as frightening as that notion is).

    Why for Pels :

    Pelicans are having one of the greatest stars in the game and still are a complete laughing-stock around the league for 2nd year running. This would be a bold move to have maybe the most fearsome double-punch in NBA (neck-to-neck with Curry-Durant - IMO ahead of Lebron-Kyrie/Kawhi-LMA/Lillard-McCollum). Something worth of selling your future for (multiple 1st-rounders)...

    Having a P-n-R killer like Brow next to him would be a PERFECT spot for Teague as well...

    Negatives :

    None of the players we can get from Pelicans make you even a playoff team. So, we would be heavily accounting for those picks to turn up BIG. This year's one would surely be a good one, but they might be (likely to be) too good by 2019 for that one to really be a treasure. But, double lottery ticket next year (ours too) would be a way to start anew.
    Last edited by PetPaima; 11-13-2016 at 07:22 AM.

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    The new guy MikeGray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    The only way I would trade him is if we could trade him for Gordan Hayward, who vows to take a max extension, and then a first round pick from Utah. Even then I think we are jumping the gun. I lean towards keeping him.

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    Member Grimp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    No way I move Paul. If something BIG or earth-shattering has to be done I'd suggest something like:

    Myles Turner + 2017 unprotected 1st + 2020 protected 1st + Stuckey + Joe Young.

    To Sacramento for

    Rudy Gay + Demarcus Cousins + 2017 2nd rounder unprotected.
    Last edited by Grimp; 11-13-2016 at 08:17 PM.

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    Member PetPaima's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Both of you apparently failed to understand that I do not WANT to trade PG13. I am just starting to accept the fact that we have no shot of keeping him past Summer'18. Then he will leave without compensation. Turner is ours for 7 more seasons (rookie contract + extension), so could f ex Wiggins be...

    PG13 won't sign a new contract with the pitiful team Larry Bird has put around him...

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    PG for Clarkson? Wow, that Lakers trade is no good. PG is one of the best players in the league and only loses out to Leonard as the best all round player. Pacers need more value if PG13 gets traded.

    If you are talking Clarkson and Ingram, then I'd be down for that.

    for the Wolves, I'd want Wiggins and Dunn.

    Only other team I'd be interested in would be the Suns - Dragon Bender, Chriss, TJ Warren and Devin Booker for PG, CJ, Christmas and Allen

    I'd love to go Bucks, but no way they trade Giannis.
    First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

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    Member PetPaima's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    I was looking for "desperate moves" when other team holds all the trumps ie. we either trade PG13 pronto or lose him for nothing...

    That's why I wrote : "PLEASE, DO NOT SUGGEST ANYTHING TOO GOOD! Only proposals you would 90% certainly grab in other team's shoes!!!"

    ...and of course the salaries have to match as well. We can not trade PG for Wiggins&Dunn, but we could trade PG13, Lavoy + JoeyBuckets for Wiggins, Dunn AND Pekovic. There our price for that action is to pay Pekovic for 2017-18 and be unlikely to ever see him even in practice court (he has already been ruled out for whole this season).


    Edit : that wouldn't be a bad trade either. Adding Wiggins & Dunn to Myles Turner would give us a really good young nucleus to build on... Just would require some patience and not wasting long contracts to tiring retreads (read : no more Montas and AlJeffs)
    Last edited by PetPaima; 11-14-2016 at 12:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    I would trade PG for Devin Booker and Dragan Bender plus filler. That would be an amazing deal. This is only if we have no chance of resigning him.

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Those trades are all terrible for the Pacers. If the Lakers wanted George, they'd have to include two of Randle, Russell, or Ingram. Pelicans simply don't have enough talent on their roster not named Anthony Davis to get him. Wolves trade is the closest, but Wiggins alone wouldn't get it done I don't think, and Rubio doesn't have much value to us.

    If we had to trade him: Devin Booker, TJ Warren, Marquis Chriss.

    Teague
    Booker
    Warren
    Chriss
    Turner
    Last edited by Dr. Awesome; 11-21-2016 at 08:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    Rubio doesn't have much value to us.
    Why so? We don't have a point guard for next season anyway. Teague & Brooks are UFAs, Joe Young is a non-guaranteed contract.

    With our recent ability to pull Free Agents in - getting plus-players with few seasons left in contract is a big additional value! Thus you can not only compare the actual talent, but also contracts...

    It is not about whether Wiggins equals PG13 (he doesn't)...
    It is whether 5 seasons of Wiggins (rookie contract + RFA extension) is worth more than 1 seasons of PG13 (especially when there is NO compensation at the end of the 1 seasons). There the answer is IMO a resounding YES.


    And about Pelicans-trade. The real value would lay in two 1st-round picks - one of which should be a lottery one. Players are there just to match salaries (although Moore & Ajinca both have good-value contracts for few years)

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by PetPaima View Post
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    Why so? We don't have a point guard for next season anyway. Teague & Brooks are UFAs, Joe Young is a non-guaranteed contract.

    With our recent ability to pull Free Agents in - getting plus-players with few seasons left in contract is a big additional value! Thus you can not only compare the actual talent, but also contracts...

    It is not about whether Wiggins equals PG13 (he doesn't)...
    It is whether 5 seasons of Wiggins (rookie contract + RFA extension) is worth more than 1 seasons of PG13 (especially when there is NO compensation at the end of the 1 seasons). There the answer is IMO a resounding YES.


    And about Pelicans-trade. The real value would lay in two 1st-round picks - one of which should be a lottery one. Players are there just to match salaries (although Moore & Ajinca both have good-value contracts for few years)
    There's probably a 90% chance or better of re-signing Teague...if we want him.

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by PetPaima View Post
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    Why so? We don't have a point guard for next season anyway. Teague & Brooks are UFAs, Joe Young is a non-guaranteed contract.

    With our recent ability to pull Free Agents in - getting plus-players with few seasons left in contract is a big additional value! Thus you can not only compare the actual talent, but also contracts...

    It is not about whether Wiggins equals PG13 (he doesn't)...
    It is whether 5 seasons of Wiggins (rookie contract + RFA extension) is worth more than 1 seasons of PG13 (especially when there is NO compensation at the end of the 1 seasons). There the answer is IMO a resounding YES.


    And about Pelicans-trade. The real value would lay in two 1st-round picks - one of which should be a lottery one. Players are there just to match salaries (although Moore & Ajinca both have good-value contracts for few years)


    Rubio can't shoot. He's also beyond injury prone. The only way you acquire him is for a backup role.

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    In my original proposal he was a contract filler to match the sums... And I mentioned his frequent injuries as a major negative. Still, a non-shooter and especially UNWILLING shooter might be exactly what we WANT in order to get Myles Turner usage rate upto where it should be. Only one player can shoot at the time and we would want to be Turner more often and Teague/Ellis/Stuckey less often...

    Anyway, Rubio is not USELESS. He would add value (unlike f ex Pekovic)

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    I'd take Minnesota as the only trade partner on this list. You got to imagine Thib's would love to have PG. I want Lavine and Wiggins too with a must take Ellis as well. Might look like PG,Ellis Future protected 1st for Wiggins,Lavine, Peckovic for filler. T-wolves are 12 mil under the cap and this would work. I think this would bring a nice lineup for the t-wolves

    Towns
    Dieng
    George
    Dunn
    Rubio

    I think that's a nice unit for them plus still leaves a descent bench and a potential trademark Thib's defense.

    For the Pacers a foundation of Turner, Wiggins and Lavine to build around sounds exciting to me. I also would mind the chances for them to be competitive this year as well. With a starting unit of:
    Turner
    Young
    Wiggins
    Lavine
    Teague

    And our current bench sounds like a good potential roster.

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by PetPaima View Post
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    In my original proposal he was a contract filler to match the sums... And I mentioned his frequent injuries as a major negative. Still, a non-shooter and especially UNWILLING shooter might be exactly what we WANT in order to get Myles Turner usage rate upto where it should be. Only one player can shoot at the time and we would want to be Turner more often and Teague/Ellis/Stuckey less often...

    Anyway, Rubio is not USELESS. He would add value (unlike f ex Pekovic)


    Well of course. Pekovic is more injured than Rubio is. Rubio has game and talent, but cannot stay on the court long enough to really have a complete season. Pekovic on the other hand most people think he's D-O-N-E. When his contract falls off the books he'll probably never play ball again. Compared to Pekovic yeah I'd take Rubio. But I wouldn't take him in any Paul George package. Also this trade hinges on how Paul feels about going to and more importantly........ STAYING ........ in Minnesota. Who's to say he doesn't opt out in 2018 and bolt for Los Angeles or even San Francisco/Oakland? Wolves are gonna want a firm commitment that he likes their situation and that he wants to commit long term.

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimp View Post
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    Also this trade hinges on how Paul feels about going to and more importantly........ STAYING ........ in Minnesota. Who's to say he doesn't opt out in 2018 and bolt for Los Angeles or even San Francisco/Oakland? Wolves are gonna want a firm commitment that he likes their situation and that he wants to commit long term.
    This is an absolute truth for once. And that definitely would make the trade for PG13 risky for whomever partner we would end up dealing with... That is a reason why PG13's trade value is already dropping. He may end up being a "rental". For us, I give no more than 15-20 % chance to keep him past summer'18. I consider him gone...


    Plusses for Minnesota : They are in great salary situation to pay absolute MAX for PG13 AND to add another high-caliber free agent next summer (Millsap?) to the core of LaVine-PG13-KAT.

    Negatives for Minnesota : They are not a "prime" location so getting anyone desirable to take their free agent money is tough. And this trade would give them exactly 1 years to produce a bonafide contender. Otherwise PG13 bolts.


    Our biggest incentive is that in acquiring Wiggins, we would get a tandem to Evan Turner who would both be ours for next 5 seasons minimum. That is the core for a long time and you can build around it. NONE of our other players are "keepers".

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Celtics will give you IT, Avery Bradley, BKN #1 for PG

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
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    Celtics will give you IT, Avery Bradley, BKN #1 for PG

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to acquire someone to enhance the play of the person who becomes the new #1 guy? Myles becomes the man in this scenario, so send PG and cousin Joe to the Clips for DeAndre. You then have a guy in the post to do the dirty work to free up Myles to be the man. I'd hope to get a 1st from the Clips too.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post
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    Wouldn't it make more sense to acquire someone to enhance the play of the person who becomes the new #1 guy? Myles becomes the man in this scenario, so send PG and cousin Joe to the Clips for DeAndre. You then have a guy in the post to do the dirty work to free up Myles to be the man. I'd hope to get a 1st from the Clips too.

    DJ's inability to shoot free throws is a problem.

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by PetPaima View Post
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    This is an absolute truth for once. And that definitely would make the trade for PG13 risky for whomever partner we would end up dealing with... That is a reason why PG13's trade value is already dropping. He may end up being a "rental". For us, I give no more than 15-20 % chance to keep him past summer'18. I consider him gone...


    Plusses for Minnesota : They are in great salary situation to pay absolute MAX for PG13 AND to add another high-caliber free agent next summer (Millsap?) to the core of LaVine-PG13-KAT.

    Negatives for Minnesota : They are not a "prime" location so getting anyone desirable to take their free agent money is tough. And this trade would give them exactly 1 years to produce a bonafide contender. Otherwise PG13 bolts.


    Our biggest incentive is that in acquiring Wiggins, we would get a tandem to Evan Turner who would both be ours for next 5 seasons minimum. That is the core for a long time and you can build around it. NONE of our other players are "keepers".
    I know you made a typo, but ....



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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    I know you made a typo, but ....



    That typo makes me to

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Here's an idea.

    PG to Boston for Brad Stevens.

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    i can't imagine Larry ever trading PG. But if the Nets pick ends up being 1 overall i think it could get interesting

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    Default Re: Resigned to lose PG13 - how to get best value for him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
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    i can't imagine Larry ever trading PG. But if the Nets pick ends up being 1 overall i think it could get interesting
    I don't think there's a way PG gets traded unless he requests it. With the new CBA, PG will likely be up for a $210M mega, mega max at the end of his current deal. Obviously he wants to win a title(s), but do you see him turning down an extra $80M more than anyone else can offer? With that said, the package of BKN 1, Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart for PG could make one wonder. IF you were to trade PG the only asset worth it is that Brooklyn pick or both BKN picks. Gotta get a pick(s) from a 3rd party, since PG is likely to make any team that would trade for him at least a playoff team (in BOS they'd be 2B behind TOR).

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