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Thread: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I don't think it's 100% that black and white for the NBA, because ultimately, these people are the consumers of their product and they want to keep them happy and coming back.
    And it's nearly impossible to do this based on the motivation whims of the consumers, considering all the different motivations for purchasers. Someone who wants to see player X and someone who wants to flip that ticket for a profit are all buying the same thing, regardless of their motivation for doing so. The NBA can't provide a catch-call to satisfy those motivations. What they can do, is offer up their product of Team A playing Team B. That's it.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    How in the world did you get that out of what I said?

    It's 100% perfectly logical to think that the NBA would use it's players on teams to market games involving said teams. Instead of focusing on the back of the jersey in the ad, focusing on the front would clear it ALL up. If you think you're entitled to see a certain player, rather than the team, I'm not going to be able to fix your problems. It's pretty clear. One simple glance at the ticket you bought should clear up the confusion on what/who you're paying to see.
    Do you really think I'm talking about some kind of NBA ads that say (for example) "Pacers v. Cavs" and just happen to show LeBron on the floor scrimmaging with 9 other players? I am talking about the ads and billboards that explicitly say (for example) "LeBron James and the Cavs" or show only LeBron and say "Pacers vs. Cavs". The NBA gears almost all of its marketing not toward showing teams and incidentally catching a star but on showing the stars and incidentally mentioning the team. If this is how they choose to advertise - and they do - then they need to accept the consequences of not actually delivering "LeBron James and the Cavs".
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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Sounds like you're set up to get bank from the NBA for false advertisement then. Don't be surprised when it's tossed out though and they point to the fact that the ticket you purchased explicitly tells you that you've bought entry to see two teams play each other.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Pretty good article about PG and Cris Lavert (who we traded for Young)



    Indiana Pacers: Paul George


    [George’s 2015 return from a compound fracture in his right lower leg was remarkable; he averaged 27.5 points over the first 20 games of the 2015–16 season, and looked better than he did prior to the injury. But he didn’t maintain that level of play. Since 2013 (and not counting his injury-shortened season), George has averaged 22.2 points per game on 17.1 shots per game. That is great, but it’s not extraordinary; 22 points on 17 shots are Joe Johnson–type numbers, not franchise cornerstone averages. The best NBA superstars consistently average 25-plus points per game, and George has done that only in spurts

    A big problem for George is his inability to consistently get to the line; of players to average at least 17 shots per game since 2013, George’s free throw rate and scoring efficiency are both average. George is still young (he turns 27 in May), but he hasn’t shown that dynamic next-level ability that we’ve been teased with.

    Last week, Pacers president of basketball operations Larry Bird listened to trade offers for George. None of them were acceptable, and Bird was right to wait until the summer to find something better. He will demand a huge return for George, and maybe he’ll get it, but smart teams need to be cautious about going overboard

    The Pacers are average but not good, and maybe that’s because George is terrific but not transcendent. Right now the hype exceeds reality when it comes to George’s stardom. The microscope will be on George more than ever. With the potential for a trade, eyes will be on his body language, effort, and every word he speaks to the media. It’s time for him to rise to the next level. If he does, and he achieves All-NBA honors, the Pacers will be able to pay him a mega-extension that could increase their chances of retaining their star

    In an /r/NBA thread titled “Being hopeless,” Reddit user Cloone11 wrote, “As a net fan I cannot believe that one gm could screw our future so badly … Like what’s the point of even following this team. I am but it just hurts … It sucks. It’s painful. It’s hell.” Look to rookie LeVert for hope. He likely would’ve been a lottery pick if it weren’t for concerns regarding his foot. Nets general manager Sean Marks needed to take calculated risks, and LeVert so far is looking like a shrewd one.

    At 6-foot-7, LeVert has the size of a wing with the passing vision of a guard, which makes him a mismatch in the pick-and-roll. The rookie generates an effective 1 point per possession on pick-and-roll shots, passes, and drawn fouls, per Synergy Sports.

    LeVert’s body control, feel, and improvisational skills are reminiscent of a prime Jamal Crawford; he knows how to slow down and rev up, a skill most guards don’t develop for years. When he penetrates the lane, he throws dart passes. LeVert has the tools to be a glue guy who makes his teammates better. The Nets have two late first-round picks in the 2017 NBA draft, and with those selections, Marks should look to take a few more swings on high-upside players who drop due to auxiliary concerns.



    In hindsight, I don't think Young was worth the trade, as LeVert seems like a similar player, maybe a little shorter, I rather have the combo of LeVert/Turner/Mahinmi rather than Young/Turner/Jefferson

    Currently we are paying Young/Jefferson 23 million (14 + 9) and Mahinmi and LeVert would be 17.6 (16 + 1.6) albeit Ian has a 4 year contract in comparison to Young and Jefferson who we have for two more years.


    Last edited by immortality; 03-20-2017 at 03:28 PM.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Best Defensive Ratings, since All-Star break:

    1. Warriors — 100.1
    2. Spurs — 101.3
    3. Raptors — 101.7
    4. Celtics — 102.0
    5. Pacers — 102.6

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    Pretty good article about PG and Cris Lavert (who we traded for Young)



    In hindsight, I don't think Young was worth the trade, as LeVert seems like a similar player, maybe a little shorter, I rather have the combo of LeVert/Turner/Mahinmi rather than Young/Turner/Jefferson

    Currently we are paying Young/Jefferson 23 million (14 + 9) and Mahinmi and LeVert would be 17.6 (16 + 1.6) albeit Ian has a 4 year contract in comparison to Young and Jefferson who we have for two more years.


    [/FONT][/FONT]
    Don't think the Pacers would have taken LaVert, although who knows. Certainly one of the more impressive rookies in this draft class (though that isn't saying much). Shades of Joe Johnson.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    What the buyer's motivation is for purchasing a product is irrelevant.
    Really?

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Sounds like you're set up to get bank from the NBA for false advertisement then. Don't be surprised when it's tossed out though and they point to the fact that the ticket you purchased explicitly tells you that you've bought entry to see two teams play each other.
    Get that straw man outta here. He's not saying that. He's doing a fine job of making my case IMO.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Really?
    Yes, really. The NBA doesn't give two ***** what your motivation is for buying their product, as long as you buy their product.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Get that straw man outta here. He's not saying that. He's doing a fine job of making my case IMO.
    He said the NBA should suffer the consequences. If you're arguing that it's false advertisement, which he is, then there are laws to compensate you and punish those responsible. Unless your "consequences" is just internet *****ing which it seems to be so since you spend so much time on an internet message board dedicated to a child's game that you voluntarily waste your time with.

    What is it that you're looking for? An apology? "I'm sorry you weren't smart enough to realize that you were buying entrance into a basketball game that was fulfilled." You'll be extremely lucky to even get that condescension.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-20-2017 at 03:52 PM.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by JB24 View Post
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    Don't think the Pacers would have taken LaVert, although who knows. Certainly one of the more impressive rookies in this draft class (though that isn't saying much). Shades of Joe Johnson.
    Agree. I don't think we would have taken LaVert. Plus no way would I want any part of Ian's contract unless its part of an Al Jeff trade

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Why would you rest Kevin Love? the guy has been resting for weeks, resting somebody that was off for a long time is stupid.
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by jrwannabe View Post
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    Agree. I don't think we would have taken LaVert. Plus no way would I want any part of Ian's contract unless its part of an Al Jeff trade
    I don't get the latter part ? Why would we still have Al Jefferson, currently we are paying the Young/Jefferson combo 24 million, I rather be paying Mahimi/Rookie combo 17 million

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    He said the NBA should suffer the consequences. If you're arguing that it's false advertisement, which he is, then there are laws to compensate you and punish those responsible. Unless your "consequences" is just internet *****ing which it seems to be so since you spend so much time on an internet message board dedicated to a child's game that you voluntarily waste your time with.
    Wow. Your imagination insofar as range of possibilities is pretty limited. "Consequences" could be legal (unless you're a legal scholar, lawyer, or judge your opinion of the "obvious" dismissal of any case is pretty spurious), they could be a growing refusal to buy the additionally-priced tickets for future games if the expectation becomes that the superstars won't bother to play, it could be a lowering of the attendance and ratings for teams hosting those superstars who don't play when they get there, which affects the league bottom line, it could be many things including tons of people *****ing on the internet (and in newspapers and on ESPN and TNT in their boardrooms who are affected when the superstars don't play in televised games).

    Maybe they figure those consequences aren't particularly expensive, but that doesn't mean the consequences don't exist. It's a direct result of marketing an expectation that isn't fulfilled and is in the long run a pretty ****** way of doing business. "Come spend a premium amount of money to maybe see a famous guy" isn't a particularly compelling campaign.
    BillS

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    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    If it's not healthy for players to play a full 82 games I would think LeBron, caring about the welfare of players on other teams, would lobby to have the league reduce the workload. You know he's not afraid to speak his mind. I can only conclude he doesn't care if other players get injuries from too much wear and tear. Same with Popovich.

    If it's about the players just getting tired, doesn't the NBA care about the product they are selling? If one team is well rested and the other is beat down and fighting nagging injuries it would seem the product would suffer.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    I don't get the latter part ? Why would we still have Al Jefferson, currently we are paying the Young/Jefferson combo 24 million, I rather be paying Mahimi/Rookie combo 17 million
    Ehh.....I'm half half on that....I have no problem with Thad ( I don't know why many have a problem with him ). But I'd rather have had Mahinmi ( despite the injuries ) over AlJeff any day of the week.
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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by immortality View Post
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    I don't get the latter part ? Why would we still have Al Jefferson, currently we are paying the Young/Jefferson combo 24 million, I rather be paying Mahimi/Rookie combo 17 million
    I wish we didn't have Al Jeff either. But since we have him, if somehow the Wizards said here's Ian for Al Jeff and Stuckey I'd do it. It's saying more about getting rid of Al Jeff even if it means taking Ian's contract

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...t-issue-league

    NBA commissioner Adam Silver has called the practice of teams resting marquee players "an extremely significant issue for our league" in a memo sent to team owners Monday and obtained ‎by ESPN.

    In the memo, Silver informed teams that the issue will be a prime topic of discussion at the next NBA Board of Governors meeting April 6 in New York and warned of ‎"significant penalties" for teams that don't abide by the league's standing rules for providing ‎"notice to the league office, their opponent, and the media immediately upon a determination that a player will not participate in a game due to rest."

    He states that it is unacceptable for owners to be uninvolved or defer decision-making on this topic to others in their organizations, who may not have the same awareness of the impact these decisions can have on "fans and business partners," the reputation of the league and "perception of our game."

    Silver also warns that teams will suffer "significant penalties" if they don't provide adequate notice when it's decided that a player will not play due to rest. There are league rules that govern when and how teams must notify the league office, their opponent and the media about such decisions.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    It is nice to see that Silver understands the impact to fans...and I really like how he gets the impact it has to how the league is perceived.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 03-20-2017 at 10:23 PM.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by jrwannabe View Post
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    I wish we didn't have Al Jeff either. But since we have him, if somehow the Wizards said here's Ian for Al Jeff and Stuckey I'd do it. It's saying more about getting rid of Al Jeff even if it means taking Ian's contract
    Ian is averaging 2/2 this year
    Lifelong pacers fan

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Ian is averaging 5 and 4 on the season, 7 and 5 during the Month of March.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Thank you Knicks

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by BornIndy07 View Post
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    Thank you Knicks

    ?
    Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

    Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You're being very narrow with your request. Increasing odds to win doesn't mean will win. Rest and it's impact on athletic performance is very well documented. It's entry level stuff for any serious athlete from weight lifters to marathon runners.

    A team can rest it's players, increase it's odds on winning, and still lose.
    Sure rest helps the individual, but does it always help the team? It's certainly not an open and shut case.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...t-issue-league

    NBA commissioner Adam Silver has called the practice of teams resting marquee players "an extremely significant issue for our league" in a memo sent to team owners Monday and obtained ‎by ESPN.

    In the memo, Silver informed teams that the issue will be a prime topic of discussion at the next NBA Board of Governors meeting April 6 in New York and warned of ‎"significant penalties" for teams that don't abide by the league's standing rules for providing ‎"notice to the league office, their opponent, and the media immediately upon a determination that a player will not participate in a game due to rest."

    He states that it is unacceptable for owners to be uninvolved or defer decision-making on this topic to others in their organizations, who may not have the same awareness of the impact these decisions can have on "fans and business partners," the reputation of the league and "perception of our game."

    Silver also warns that teams will suffer "significant penalties" if they don't provide adequate notice when it's decided that a player will not play due to rest. There are league rules that govern when and how teams must notify the league office, their opponent and the media about such decisions.
    Well, there you go, clearly no impact on the league and nothing needs to be done about it. No consequences, no problem.
    BillS

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    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Wow. Your imagination insofar as range of possibilities is pretty limited. "Consequences" could be legal (unless you're a legal scholar, lawyer, or judge your opinion of the "obvious" dismissal of any case is pretty spurious), they could be a growing refusal to buy the additionally-priced tickets for future games if the expectation becomes that the superstars won't bother to play, it could be a lowering of the attendance and ratings for teams hosting those superstars who don't play when they get there, which affects the league bottom line, it could be many things including tons of people *****ing on the internet (and in newspapers and on ESPN and TNT in their boardrooms who are affected when the superstars don't play in televised games).

    Maybe they figure those consequences aren't particularly expensive, but that doesn't mean the consequences don't exist. It's a direct result of marketing an expectation that isn't fulfilled and is in the long run a pretty ****** way of doing business. "Come spend a premium amount of money to maybe see a famous guy" isn't a particularly compelling campaign.
    The way the NBA has marketed stars has been going on for over 20yrs. Those "consequences" are slow coming. You're arguing that they're false adverstising, yet you want to limit the "consequences" to something that has had absolutely zero impact for two decades. I think the NBA has loudly declared they couldn't give two ***** about your complaints and will continue marketing in the very manner you don't like.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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