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Thread: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    i appreciate the cavs resting. 1.5 games behind 1 seed with the 6ers tonight

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    It's crazy how players suddenly need to rest all the time now. Just shows how soft the league has become.


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    you try dragging Walton and Lanier up and down the court

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
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    This players resting saga actually has me sort of taking ABC/ESPN's side on this. They spent a boat load of money and they are getting ripped off multiple times a year. To speak nothing of the fans of course.

    Look, I know we've made the regular season seem almost meaningless but this can't go on.
    In a weird way I agree and disagree with you. Sure the network pay big money.

    However, teams only care about winning (and as fans that's what we want). What can the NBA do? Start sending out guys to see if the injuries are real? Fine teams? That's a really slippery slope

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    It's not that they need to rest. It's simply a competitive advantage to do so, and teams are willing to take any advantage they can get in order to increase their odds of winning a title.
    What is the evidence that it increases the odds of winning a title? Jordan played virtually every game when he was winning titles. Kobe played virtually every game when he was winning titles. The Warriors went full throttle in the years they made back to back Finals, winning a title in one of them. Seems to me that there are a ton of modern examples where going full throttle from start to finish kept a great team in constant rhythm and led to a ring.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    It's crazy how players suddenly need to rest all the time now. Just shows how soft the league has become.
    They've always needed the rest. It's just that teams are suddenly realizing the link between inadequate rest and performance/injuries.

    The league recognizes it as well and has been thinking about shrinking the number of games.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    It's crazy how players suddenly need to rest all the time now. Just shows how soft the league has become.
    I actually heard an interview with a former NBA player talking about this and he said players now essentially have to work year round, where as in his days, the offseason was the time players actually rested for the most part. I don't remember who said this, so I can't pin point the exact era, but I found it interesting.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers



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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    I can't be the only one that hears Jim Bob Cooter call 6'8/250 behemoth marvels of the human form "soft" while struggling to get off the toilet and just laugh right?

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
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    i appreciate the cavs resting. 1.5 games behind 1 seed with the 6ers tonight
    Looks like you were counting eggs before they hatched!

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Blew a 13 point lead. Team sucks without IT

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    What is the evidence that it increases the odds of winning a title? Jordan played virtually every game when he was winning titles. Kobe played virtually every game when he was winning titles. The Warriors went full throttle in the years they made back to back Finals, winning a title in one of them. Seems to me that there are a ton of modern examples where going full throttle from start to finish kept a great team in constant rhythm and led to a ring.
    So far we don't really know. We know that in the short-term, rest increases your chances of winning. That has a long and established sample size.

    What we don't know is how extra rest helps in the long-term. The Jordan and Kobe examples end up pretty irrelevant because everybody in the league was doing the same thing. Teams without rest beat other teams without rest. We only have about 5 years of a select number of teams who chose to occasionally rest players. Two of those teams (Spurs and Cavaliers) won the title.

    It will take years of evidence to better establish if rest helps in the long-term. There is so much noise in that signal. Even a year like this won't help because this year is the opposite. The top three teams in basketball all have rested their players this season. So unless one of the other teams somehow wins, it will just be a team who rested beat another team who rested.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    About the big uproar with Cleveland resting star players...

    They say they are following The Spurs methods. True although the Spurs normally rest older players not 25 year olds. I would say the NBA might be overdoing it. Perhaps they should play 20% less games and reduce the tired players pay 20% instead of cheating the fans.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    What is the evidence that it increases the odds of winning a title? Jordan played virtually every game when he was winning titles. Kobe played virtually every game when he was winning titles. The Warriors went full throttle in the years they made back to back Finals, winning a title in one of them. Seems to me that there are a ton of modern examples where going full throttle from start to finish kept a great team in constant rhythm and led to a ring.
    You're being very narrow with your request. Increasing odds to win doesn't mean will win. Rest and it's impact on athletic performance is very well documented. It's entry level stuff for any serious athlete from weight lifters to marathon runners.

    A team can rest it's players, increase it's odds on winning, and still lose.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    I wish the Pacers were good enough to rest players.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I wish the Pacers were good enough to rest players.
    We pretty much know that we are going to lose every other game, so we should just rest players in those games.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I wish the Pacers were good enough to rest players.
    Resting players cheats the fans. The least the NBA could do is reduce the number of games if players can't handle it or want coddled. They shouldn't take it out on the fans who work very hard to pay for an expensive night out to see millionaires play a child's game.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Fans buy tickets to see Team X play Team Y, not player Z. So what you're buying is exactly what you get. No where on any ticket does it say that you're purchasing a ticket to see any player, whatsoever.

    Using the logic that fans pay to see certain players means that trades and roster moves cannot happen during the season. Imagine Kings season ticket holders saying the Kings couldn't trade Boogie because they bought tickets to see him. It's just stupid, and it falls apart when you take two seconds to think about it rather than complaining.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-20-2017 at 12:38 PM.
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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Fans buy tickets to see Team X play Team Y, not player Z. So what you're buying is exactly what you get. No where on any ticket does it say that you're purchasing a ticket to see any player, whatsoever.

    Using the logic that fans pay to see certain players means that trades and roster moves cannot happen during the season. Imagine Kings season ticket holders saying the Kings couldn't trade Boogie because they bought tickets to see him. It's just stupid, and it falls apart when you take two seconds to think about it rather than complaining.
    Different fans have different motivations for buying tickets to games. I get that in the basic transactional sense of the term, yes, they are buying tickets to a Cavs/Bucks game or whatever, but that's not the driving factor for everyone.

    That being said, I have no problem with teams resting players down the stretch. Coaches are employed to win basketball games and make sure their team is healthy and as fresh as possible for when it matters most. If that means they rest key guys 4-5 times a season, I don't have an issue with that.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Fans buy tickets to see Team X play Team Y, not player Z. So what you're buying is exactly what you get. No where on any ticket does it say that you're purchasing a ticket to see any player, whatsoever.

    Using the logic that fans pay to see certain players means that trades and roster moves cannot happen during the season. Imagine Kings season ticket holders saying the Kings couldn't trade Boogie because they bought tickets to see him. It's just stupid, and it falls apart when you take two seconds to think about it rather than complaining.
    Given the way the NBA markets stars instead of teams, one could make a case that there is an expectation being set up that the player is the product, not the team. If they don't want the consequences of disappointing customers by missetting expectations, they need to stop promoting players rather than teams.
    BillS

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    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Thought all this was interesting...












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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Different fans have different motivations for buying tickets to games.
    What the buyer's motivation is for purchasing a product is irrelevant. The NBA and it's teams sells tickets to watch two teams play each other. Why you want to watch those teams doesn't change the fact that you're only buying entry to watch those two teams. As long as those two teams play, you get exactly what was offered.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Given the way the NBA markets stars instead of teams, one could make a case that there is an expectation being set up that the player is the product, not the team. If they don't want the consequences of disappointing customers by missetting expectations, they need to stop promoting players rather than teams.
    I can only imagine the pitch meetings trying to come up with ideas on how to market teams without players in the ads so consumers with little ability to think rationally aren't confused.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I can only imagine the pitch meetings trying to come up with ideas on how to market teams without players in the ads so consumers with little ability to think rationally aren't confused.
    So, basically, you believe that the only thing marketable about the NBA is star players and marketing in any other way is impossible.

    And you believe that advertising "come buy tickets to see LeBron James play" doesn't constitute setting expectations that, you know, LeBron James will actually PLAY.
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    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So, basically, you believe that the only thing marketable about the NBA is star players and marketing in any other way is impossible.
    How in the world did you get that out of what I said?

    It's 100% perfectly logical to think that the NBA would use it's players on teams to market games involving said teams. Instead of focusing on the back of the jersey in the ad, focusing on the front would clear it ALL up. If you think you're entitled to see a certain player, rather than the team, I'm not going to be able to fix your problems. It's pretty clear. One simple glance at the ticket you bought should clear up the confusion on what/who you're paying to see.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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    Default Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    What the buyer's motivation is for purchasing a product is irrelevant. The NBA and it's teams sells tickets to watch two teams play each other. Why you want to watch those teams doesn't change the fact that you're only buying entry to watch those two teams. As long as those two teams play, you get exactly what was offered.
    Yes, again, I understand the transactional nature of your argument. I don't think it's 100% that black and white for the NBA, because ultimately, these people are the consumers of their product and they want to keep them happy and coming back.

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