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The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

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  • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

    Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
    Sure rest helps the individual, but does it always help the team? It's certainly not an open and shut case.
    Having your best players properly rested, increasing their individual athletic performance, isn't going to help team? Or do you think that the increased workload of the end of the bench scrubs some how offsets it?
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    Comment


    • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

      Originally posted by BillS View Post
      Well, there you go, clearly no impact on the league and nothing needs to be done about it. No consequences, no problem.
      The rule is that teams have to give 24hrs notice. Do you honestly think that really impacts ticket sales for people wanting to go see a particular player? To think that people wanting to go see LeBron in their city wait until the day before to buy tickets is just priceless. Silver's comment is about making sure the rule on how to rest players is properly followed, not that resting players is the problem. (EDIT: And I mean that he's not looking to stop the process but rather make the process more out in the open.)



      You guys are the embodiment of
      Last edited by Since86; 03-21-2017, 11:22 AM.
      Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

      Comment


      • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

        Originally posted by Since86 View Post
        Having your best players properly rested, increasing their individual athletic performance, isn't going to help team? Or do you think that the increased workload of the end of the bench scrubs some how offsets it?
        http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id...err-rest-stars


        You know how the NBA fixes this? Getting away from back to backs. Teams resting their players isn't going to go away, and it's not going to go away because fans complain. This is about long term for teams. If resting players means players have a better chance at avoiding injuries, then teams will rest players. Do you **** off fans for having your star sit out a game or two every couple of weeks or do you **** off fans for driving them into the ground and watching them get injuries. Do you miss 1-2 games a few weeks or do you miss 10 games because of an overuse injury?

        NBA players, and teams, are going to protect their investments as much as they can within reason. Sitting out a game is completely within reason. Thinking buying a ticket makes you entitled to a player is extremely childish, and completely ignores what the actual ticket represents. They aren't seals at the zoo there for whenever you make the decision to go. They're human beings with concerns about their own health and protecting themselves. No amount of your internet whining will stop what has been happening.

        The NBA will adjust their schedule LOOOOOOONG before they make a rule prohibiting resting players. And even if they do, teams/players will make up injuries and sit anyways.
        Last edited by Since86; 03-21-2017, 11:20 AM.
        Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

        Comment


        • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
          The rule is that teams have to give 24hrs notice. Do you honestly think that really impacts ticket sales for people wanting to go see a particular player? To think that people wanting to go see LeBron in their city wait until the day before to buy tickets is just priceless. Silver's comment is about making sure the rule on how to rest players is properly followed, not that resting players is the problem. (EDIT: And I mean that he's not looking to stop the process but rather make the process more out in the open.)



          You guys are the embodiment of
          I guess you read a different article then I did.

          The one I read showed the NBA commissioner cared a lot more then 24 hour notice. I'm on my phone, but I think he even mentioned advertisers and fans.

          Is the process going to stop? No. Is this something the NBA cares about more then you are implying the last couple of posts? Heck yes.

          Now is is there an easy answer? That's a hard question (and I happen to disagree with you. I think even if they got rid of back to backs teams would rest players. And to be 100% honest I'm not sure i would fault them. TPTB are paid to win titles.)

          Comment


          • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

            Originally posted by Since86 View Post
            The way the NBA has marketed stars has been going on for over 20yrs. Those "consequences" are slow coming. You're arguing that they're false adverstising, yet you want to limit the "consequences" to something that has had absolutely zero impact for two decades. I think the NBA has loudly declared they couldn't give two ***** about your complaints and will continue marketing in the very manner you don't like.

            The press release (the memo from a silver to NBA owners) says otherwise. And it doesn't just talk about notice. It talks about the practice in general. He even says they want to discuss it further information elation to the major networks (or something like that)

            Comment


            • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

              Originally posted by Since86 View Post
              The way the NBA has marketed stars has been going on for over 20yrs. Those "consequences" are slow coming. You're arguing that they're false adverstising, yet you want to limit the "consequences" to something that has had absolutely zero impact for two decades. I think the NBA has loudly declared they couldn't give two ***** about your complaints and will continue marketing in the very manner you don't like.
              I think you'll find that resting uninjured star players before the last few weeks of the season became an issue when Pop started doing it with Duncan. I don't recall any coach doing this on a regular basis mid-season prior to that. So "it has been going on for two decades" is a bit of a stretch. I would even venture to say it only became possible with the changes to the injured list, which are very recent.
              BillS

              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

              Comment


              • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

                Originally posted by vapacersfan View Post
                I guess you read a different article then I did.

                The one I read showed the NBA commissioner cared a lot more then 24 hour notice. I'm on my phone, but I think he even mentioned advertisers and fans.
                Look at what the memo said.

                In the memo, Silver informed teams that the issue will be a prime topic of discussion at the next NBA board of governors meeting April 6 in New York and warned of ‎"significant penalties" for teams that don't abide by the league's standing rules for providing ‎"notice to the league office, their opponent, and the media immediately upon a determination that a player will not participate in a game due to rest."
                He's not calling for the practice to end, he's calling for teams to follow the NBA protocol in notifying the NBA sooner that they will sit players. If resting players was the problem, they'd be looking at fixing that. Instead they're focusing on fixing the procedure on how/when teams inform the league.






                Originally posted by vapacersfan View Post
                Is the process going to stop? No. Is this something the NBA cares about more then you are implying the last couple of posts? Heck yes.
                I'm not saying they don't care. I'm saying that the "I paid for the ticket to see X and I'm cheated!" internet message board whining will do absolutely nothing to stop the practice and the fact that fans aren't entitled to see a certain player just because they bought a ticket. A ticket purchase gets you into the game, and that is it. That's what the ticket is, entry. Nothing more.
                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                Comment


                • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

                  Originally posted by vapacersfan View Post
                  The press release (the memo from a silver to NBA owners) says otherwise. And it doesn't just talk about notice. It talks about the practice in general. He even says they want to discuss it further information elation to the major networks (or something like that)
                  The solution is to flex different games into those slots when teams decide to rest players. Not to stop the practice. The NBA is going to go in that direction like the NFL.
                  Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

                    Originally posted by BillS View Post
                    I think you'll find that resting uninjured star players before the last few weeks of the season became an issue when Pop started doing it with Duncan. I don't recall any coach doing this on a regular basis mid-season prior to that. So "it has been going on for two decades" is a bit of a stretch. I would even venture to say it only became possible with the changes to the injured list, which are very recent.
                    You didn't read my link, did you?

                    And it's no coincidence that Popovich was the NBA's pioneer on resting stars in the name of injury prevention. This past summer, Rivers hired a host of sports science and performance gurus to help keep his stars healthy for the long term. And one of their recommendations was to rest stars when recovery wasn't possible. This season, Rivers began resting players as early as November
                    And I was talking about marketing superstar players over teams for decades. The problem of paying a ticket to see your favorite player early on only for them not to play later covers a lot more than just resting players. It gets into how severe injuries are and whether they should "man up" (I mean this conversation got kicked off by BnG's whining, who said GHill should learn to take a punch and not get his tooth through his lip and get a concussion on top it......) and whether or not in-season trades happen. If resting a player causes you to miss your favorite player and feeling cheated out of your money, then so would trading that player after you bought your tickets to a different team.

                    This idea that a ticket purchase entitles you to see a player play just doesn't actually exist. Once you realize that you're not buying access to see player X but rather team X, it all falls into place.
                    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

                      NBA needs to cut down the preseason to a couple games and add those days into the regular season. The league and the players/coaches are at fault here...give them a little more space and a little bit of serious discipline for non-early notice of rest and things will be fine. I think even before the season with schedule out, teams could be offered 1 or 2 "rest" games that are obviously bad scheduling times to rest their guys, gives the league and fans notice in advance.
                      "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

                      ----------------- Reggie Miller

                      Comment


                      • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

                        And right here is your proof that no amount of your whining about how you feel entitled will change what is happening and will continue to happen. This is from the article Va linked.

                        After the Cavaliers decided to rest their Big Three of LeBron James, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love for a 108-78 loss to the LA Clippers on Saturday, Cleveland general manager David Griffin said the league office called him shortly after the team announced its decision.
                        But the GM also said it isn't his job to appease the league and its television partners (which include ESPN).

                        "They're paying me to win a championship," Griffin told ESPN. "I'm not overly concerned about the perception of it. We literally had one guy rest tonight, and everybody else was reasonably injured, so I don't feel like we did anything terribly egregious."
                        http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...t-issue-league

                        The Cavs will continue to sit players, perception and fan whining be damned. They don't care. Fans will continue buying tickets and take that risk. They're concerned with the health of their players, not BnG's feelings of being cheated and his misunderstanding of what a ticket actually is.
                        Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

                          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                          You didn't read my link, did you?
                          Not sure how a 2017 article about Doc Rivers starting to rest players at the beginning of the season contradicts my point that prior to Pop it was not generally done to rest healthy players before the end of the season? It doesn't in any way imply Pop was doing it while Rivers was playing, just that since Pop did it Rivers picked it up due to his respect for Pop.
                          BillS

                          A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                          Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                          Comment


                          • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

                            Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                            And right here is your proof that no amount of your whining about how you feel entitled will change what is happening and will continue to happen. This is from the article Va linked.


                            http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...t-issue-league

                            The Cavs will continue to sit players, perception and fan whining be damned. They don't care. Fans will continue buying tickets and take that risk. They're concerned with the health of their players, not BnG's feelings of being cheated and his misunderstanding of what a ticket actually is.
                            Then why did the league bother to make the call if the league doesn't care?
                            BillS

                            A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                            Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                            Comment


                            • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

                              Originally posted by BillS View Post
                              Not sure how a 2017 article about Doc Rivers starting to rest players at the beginning of the season contradicts my point that prior to Pop it was not generally done to rest healthy players before the end of the season? It doesn't in any way imply Pop was doing it while Rivers was playing, just that since Pop did it Rivers picked it up due to his respect for Pop.
                              Pop has been doing it prior to end of seasons, and Rivers picked up on that. This whole situation really kicked off in Dec 2012.

                              Spurs fined $250,000 for 'disservice'
                              Dec 1, 2012

                              http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/8...itting-players



                              Obviously that massive fine had zero impact on teams' thought process about whether or not they're going to do this. And even if the NBA did somehow try and legislate a rule to stop it, which they won't and even if they did it would become a CBA battle, teams will just makeup injuries for why players don't dress.

                              But the NBA isn't going to go to battle with teams/players over player safety. They just won't. The NBA will try to make fixes through flexing games to satisfy TV deals, and ticket purchasers (who this is about) will continue to get the shaft.
                              Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                              Comment


                              • Re: The 2016-2017 NBA Random Thoughts Thread, 13th of its name: Kingslayers

                                Originally posted by BillS View Post
                                Then why did the league bother to make the call if the league doesn't care?
                                .

                                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                                I'm not saying they don't care. I'm saying that the "I paid for the ticket to see X and I'm cheated!" internet message board whining will do absolutely nothing to stop the practice and the fact that fans aren't entitled to see a certain player just because they bought a ticket. A ticket purchase gets you into the game, and that is it. That's what the ticket is, entry. Nothing more.
                                They don't care about your whining. They care about their TV partner's whining, and like I've said multiple times they'll "fix" it by flexing a different game into the time slot and air that one. Your "I got cheated" will continue to fall on deaf ears.
                                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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