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Thread: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

  1. #1776
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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    You know, as much flack as Alford is getting... The guy has taken UCLA to 3 sweet sixteens over the last 4 years, that's not bad at all.
    He and Tom Crean can talk about their great sweet 16 births.



  2. #1777
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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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    Default Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

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  4. #1779

    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    He and Tom Crean can talk about their great sweet 16 births.
    It's going to be tough to continuously compare him to Crean if he ends up going past the sweet sixteen this year... Crean has never been to 3 sweet 16's in 4 years (he's been to 3 in 9 years...), and while Crean walked in to a tough situation, his winning % is significantly lower than Alford's is over the last few years as well. It's not like UCLA was great when Alford took over either, when Alford took over UCLA had gone 6 seasons without even reaching the sweet 16. This while Alford is racking up top rated recruiting classes at UCLA. I get he's not anyone's first choice for a coach, but the hate on him is getting out of control as far as his results go in comparison to Crean.

    Again I'm not saying Alford is my #1 guy, but if I were given a choice between him and Crean, I'm taking Alford without hesitation.
    Last edited by BlueCollarColts; 03-20-2017 at 11:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    It's going to be tough to continuously compare him to Crean if he ends up going past the sweet sixteen this year... Crean has never been to 3 sweet 16's in 4 years (he's been to 3 in 9 years...), and while Crean walked in to a tough situation, his winning % is significantly lower than Alford's is over the last few years as well. It's not like UCLA was great when Alford took over either, when Alford took over UCLA had gone 6 seasons without even reaching the sweet 16. This while Alford is racking up top rated recruiting classes at UCLA. I get he's not anyone's first choice for a coach, but the hate on him is getting out of control as far as his results go in comparison to Crean.

    Again I'm not saying Alford is my #1 guy, but if I were given a choice between him and Crean, I'm taking Alford without hesitation.
    Why? UCLA making the Sweet 16 as a 3 seed really moves the needle that much? Their resumes are still pretty similar; show similar trends. The choice isn't between Alford and Crean so we can, should, and will do better.

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  8. #1781
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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    A few things here:

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    Crean has never been to 3 sweet 16's in 4 years (he's been to 3 in 9 years...)
    IU went to the Sweet 16 in 2012, 2013, and 2016 (so 3 in 5 years).

    Unless your comparison is based on total years in a job, which is silly given the different challenges IU and UCLA faced, but nevertheless...
    • Tom Crean made 3 Sweet 16s in 9 years at IU
    • Steve Alford made 0 Sweet 16s in 8 years at Iowa
    • Steve Alford made 0 Sweet 16s in 6 years at New Mexico
    • Tom Crean made 1 Final Four in 9 years at Marquette.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    and while Crean walked in to a tough situation, his winning % is significantly lower than Alford's is over the last few years as well.
    Tom Crean's teams have been wildly inconsistent. Won't get an argument from me. But you also conveniently ignore the fact that Alford has been coaching Division I for 22 years - a lot of Steve Alford's consistency involves him failing to make the Sweet 16 for nearly 15 straight years until UCLA. And never making it beyond, in spite of the team's record. Maybe this is the year he does, but that doesn't erase the 20+ years it took to do that.
    This is the darkest timeline.

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  10. #1782
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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Alford has the problem of having a long track record at this point. There's no clean slate for him. There's a chance that IU and Alford are a perfect combination and could achieve great things together. But there's also a chance he is who his resume says he is.

    Although his name is a bit of Indiana legend at this point, no college-aged or HS kids saw him play live. Heck, there could be some parents that are too young to remember seeing him play live. It's even possible there are some parents of HS'ers too young to have seen him playing live for IU.

    I still think he could recruit Indiana and the region as far as that goes, but it's not like he's going to be talking to awestruck kids amazed at his playing days and getting to meet their hero.

    He's far from my first choice. That said, he's not Crean and he's traveled some, played the game, and now coaching in a highly visible program so he wouldn't be coming to IU as a naive coach, overwhelmed by the situation. But he's not Crean.

    Still, I'd rather have a sure fire resume, or someone from a midmajor who has shown an ability to make more with less and gamble on their potential versus gambling Alford can be more paired with IU than his resume says he is.
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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    I know they are getting the lion's share of the attention right now, but honestly I don't think either Donovan or Alford will end up being our new coach.

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  13. #1784

    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    A few things here:



    IU went to the Sweet 16 in 2012, 2013, and 2016 (so 3 in 5 years).

    Unless your comparison is based on total years in a job, which is silly given the different challenges IU and UCLA faced, but nevertheless...
    • Tom Crean made 3 Sweet 16s in 9 years at IU
    • Steve Alford made 0 Sweet 16s in 8 years at Iowa
    • Steve Alford made 0 Sweet 16s in 6 years at New Mexico
    • Tom Crean made 1 Final Four in 9 years at Marquette.




    Tom Crean's teams have been wildly inconsistent. Won't get an argument from me. But you also conveniently ignore the fact that Alford has been coaching Division I for 22 years - a lot of Steve Alford's consistency involves him failing to make the Sweet 16 for nearly 15 straight years until UCLA. And never making it beyond, in spite of the team's record. Maybe this is the year he does, but that doesn't erase the 20+ years it took to do that.
    The reason I chose to compare Alford's time at UCLA to Crean at IU is both are similar programs... Both expect strong results. That's not really the case with schools like Iowa and New Mexico, which put significantly fewer resources into their basketball programs and are just satisfied with making the tournament.

  14. #1785

    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Why? UCLA making the Sweet 16 as a 3 seed really moves the needle that much? Their resumes are still pretty similar; show similar trends. The choice isn't between Alford and Crean so we can, should, and will do better.
    All I am saying is I think Alford is a better coach than Crean, and i've seen a lot of people saying they're equal and I just don't believe that. I also agree we can and should do better, if Donovan isn't possible I would much rather go get a guy like Archie Miller or Gregg Marshall than hire Alford.

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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Alford without Lonzo is just Alford. And Lonzo and the Ball boys aren't coming to Indiana. The only reason Alford has them is because they're from LA. Their dad was asked about it and basically laughed at the idea of his kids playing in Indiana.

    IMO, Alford making the final 4 with this group would be no different than Crean going there with Wade at Marquette.



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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    It's going to be tough to continuously compare him to Crean if he ends up going past the sweet sixteen this year... Crean has never been to 3 sweet 16's in 4 years (he's been to 3 in 9 years...), and while Crean walked in to a tough situation, his winning % is significantly lower than Alford's is over the last few years as well. It's not like UCLA was great when Alford took over either, when Alford took over UCLA had gone 6 seasons without even reaching the sweet 16. This while Alford is racking up top rated recruiting classes at UCLA. I get he's not anyone's first choice for a coach, but the hate on him is getting out of control as far as his results go in comparison to Crean.

    Again I'm not saying Alford is my #1 guy, but if I were given a choice between him and Crean, I'm taking Alford without hesitation.
    That's fine that you'd take Alford over Crean. I get that Crean with an IU background is appealing to some. It's not to me. If Steve Alford had not gone to IU, he would not even be considered based on the success level necessary for the job that Fred yammered on about on Thursday.



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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    The reason I chose to compare Alford's time at UCLA to Crean at IU is both are similar programs... Both expect strong results. That's not really the case with schools like Iowa and New Mexico, which put significantly fewer resources into their basketball programs and are just satisfied with making the tournament.
    UCLA records by season:

    2012-2013 (Howland's final year): 25-10; 13-5 in PAC [1st]; 1st round NCAAs
    2013-2014: 28-9; 12-6 in PAC [2nd]; Sweet Sixteen
    2014-2015: 22-14; 11-7 in PAC [4th]; Sweet Sixteen
    2015-2016: 15-17; 6-12 in PAC [10th]; no NCAAs
    2016-2017: 31-4; 15-3 in PAC [3rd]; Sweet Sixteen (at least)

    The trend line was not looking so good for Alford coming into this season. So bad in fact, let's not forget this unprecedented act of desperation: he gave up an entire year on his contract. His seat was very hot. UCLA fans would still trip over each other to drive him to the airport if he took the Indiana job.

    Also, let's stop acting like Iowa and New Mexico are impossible places to win. New Mexico (a place where I think Alford should have stayed, as the fit was great) cares a lot about basketball and has pumped a lot of money into the program and facilities over the last decade plus. It's a very desirable job in the Mountain West. If we're going to compare to results of someone like Gregg Marshall or Archie Miller or whoever else at mid-majors then why are we trying to sweep Alford's record under the carpet at a school in our own conference and another school that is, at least program wise, on or around par with the Daytons or Wichitas of the world?

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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Why? UCLA making the Sweet 16 as a 3 seed really moves the needle that much? Their resumes are still pretty similar; show similar trends. The choice isn't between Alford and Crean so we can, should, and will do better.
    This is as simple and concise as you can possibly say it. Just like Glass said Crean's season this year wasn't the only thing considered in his termination, Alford's success this year isn't something that should be considered without looking at the whole story.

    Like I said when this all started. If Alford's the guy, whatever, IU will have a chance to go to the final four maybe once every 10 years or so, just like they would have with Crean which hey if that's what you can live with, go for it, but I thought the whole point for firing Crean was to aim higher.

    If we hire Alford, Glass and IU are basically admitting that Crean's relative level of success at IU was fine, but that we just needed an IU guy so he could weather the lean times a little better with some of the fanbase.


    Alford is just extremely unappealing to me, forgetting Donovan for a second, I'd rather go with Archie (young and potentially your coach for 25-30 years), Marshall (has done more than Alford with less), or even god forbid it Tony Bennett and his butt ugly system. Heck I'd rather roll the dice on a guy like Chris Collins or Enfield before going for Alford.

    I don't personally trust Alford's recruiting at UCLA either considering that his big gets are the Ball boys and then Wilkes who is on record of being way more enamored with the idea of living in LA for college than he is with being coached by Alford.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 03-20-2017 at 02:14 PM.



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  20. #1790
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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    The kids Alford will be recruiting in state barely will remember tales of IU's 2002 final four starting next year basically.

    Thinking Alford's name has any meaning to them because of his time at IU is frankly moronic, and is at worst borderline destructive considering the way Bob Knight and a lot of his era has behaved towards IU in the past 15 years.

    It'd be different if Alford was rolling up years of success, but 4 2nd weekend tourney births in 22 years as a head coach? Is that and an IU degree really all it takes to get some of you revved up? What if instead of Steve Alford I told you we were going to hire Rick Barnes? I bet most of you would be ready to go burn down Assembly Hall, but guess what Barnes time at Texas was more successful than anything Alford or hell Tom Crean has ever done.

    In 17 years at Texas, Barnes had 1 Final Four, 2 Elite Eights, and 2 other sweet sixteens.



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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    All I am saying is I think Alford is a better coach than Crean, and i've seen a lot of people saying they're equal and I just don't believe that. I also agree we can and should do better, if Donovan isn't possible I would much rather go get a guy like Archie Miller or Gregg Marshall than hire Alford.
    I don't think there's any evidence to support this though. It's just you hoping he'd be better at IU than he's been at other stops. His career suggests that he can win very big at a certain level and then still struggles in March (see his entire time at New Mexico).

    Maybe he's slightly better than Crean, but even then I think they're essentially the same guy. You gotta remember whoever is taking this gig is probably getting at minimum a 7 year deal with a pretty nasty buyout. Slightly better than Crean ain't worth that headache when Alford throws up a stinker or two (which history says he will).

    When you're at a tipping point like IU appears to potentially be, there's only way off the shitter and that's by opening the checkbook and going hard for somebody that is established or appears decidedly on the path to being established as a great coach. Ask UK with Cal, ask UNC with Roy Williams, ask Arizona with Sean Miller, and then go ask the programs who have whiffed on these hires. There's not a whole lot of middle ground. And IU has already used up two swings with the Mike Davis hire and the Kelvin Sampson hire.

    Crean was IMO, a smart hire for what was needed at the time, but all he really did was get the program breathing again on it's own. IU is still very much not out of the woods, and a bad hire here probably puts IU firmly outside of the elite category...likely forever.

    Where does Alford put you 7 years from now? Probably with 2-3 sweet 16s. Sounds a lot like where we are now.



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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Also, not trying to attack anyone personally, I just feel very emotionally strong about this hire and I think Alford is the kind of nepotism that leads to a program like IU solidifying it's movement towards mediocrity and irrelevancy.



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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    I'd really like for Dakich to get back into coaching somewhere like, Idaho State so we don't have to hear his incessant trolling of the IU fans anymore.

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  27. #1794

    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'd really like for Dakich to get back into coaching somewhere like, Idaho State so we don't have to hear his incessant trolling of the IU fans anymore.
    I'm listening today too and it's wearing me down. I used to like him a lot, but not the last month. Plus i'm tired of hearing about the IU coaching search already.

  28. #1795

    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    I'll just leave the Alford stuff alone, I think it's a mute point anyway because I guarantee you we'd hire a guy like Archie or Marshall before Alford, and we should. Dakich was one of the biggest supporters of Alford to IU and he's even saying he may be wrong now.

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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    I'll just leave the Alford stuff alone, I think it's a mute point anyway because I guarantee you we'd hire a guy like Archie or Marshall before Alford, and we should. Dakich was one of the biggest supporters of Alford to IU and he's even saying he may be wrong now.
    Moot. It's a "moot" point.

    /grammarnazi


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  31. #1797

    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarColts View Post
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    I'll just leave the Alford stuff alone, I think it's a mute point anyway because I guarantee you we'd hire a guy like Archie or Marshall before Alford, and we should. Dakich was one of the biggest supporters of Alford to IU and he's even saying he may be wrong now.
    Yep from what i can gather, it sounded like he went on record to Gregg Doyle that it was a done deal and then came on the radio and claimed that because they hired a search committee, that he's not sure he's right.

    Real lame. Losing respect. He's entertaining sometimes, but losing respect now.

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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Apropos of nothing, like anyone who has ever coached a basketball game in the state of Indiana on any level, Frank Vogel's name has been tossed out there as a potential IU candidate. Vogel reportedly has zero interest in leaving the NBA.

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    Default Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Alford's coaching ability aside, do we really want to be associated with all of this?

    http://m.ocregister.com/articles/alf...erce-iowa.html


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    Default Re: Indiana Hoosier Athletics 2016-2017

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Apropos of nothing, like anyone who has ever coached a basketball game in the state of Indiana on any level, Frank Vogel's name has been tossed out there as a potential IU candidate. Vogel reportedly has zero interest in leaving the NBA.
    What is Jim O'Satan up to these days?


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