Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: Can JO be a franchise player

  1. #1
    NotLosingButWinning
    Guest

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    i think he can but he is going to have to improve his game in a lot of areas such as passing. that being said i think he needs artest and tinsley more than any other player of this team.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    If JO isn't a player we can build around how many players are in the league can a team be built around?

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Frankfort, IN
    Posts
    9,096

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    I think he is. You might always want him to be a bit better but he's a 20-10 guy who's become pretty decent defensively.

    Would you rather build around Shaq or Garnett? Sure. OTOH, if you had an expansion draft and were offered the choice of Ben Wallace or JO I think most people would take JO.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  4. #4

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    -Kobe is not in the playoffs.

    -T-Mac was traded because of his "success" in Orlando.

    -AI, well, we are seeing how well an AI team is doing against the Pistons.

    Certianly these players have been built around but there is no way you can say they have been more successful than JO.

    There is Shaq, Duncan, KG clearly better now. LaBron and possibly Amare will be better in the years to come.

    I don't believe that teams can be built around non-big men unless those players are truly great. LaBron is the only non-big I would trade JO for right now.

  5. #5
    ReggieMiller8325
    Guest

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    I rather have Artest any day right now then J.o.PERIOD!

  6. #6
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,930

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    Is there a point where JO 'gets it' and becomes a true 'go to' leader and franchise player? Does anyone think he is already there besides the fact he has a max contract?

    Why has he not gotten there yet (I don't think he has)?

    Has Reggie deferred to JO because he's been instructed to do so or because it is clear JO would pout if he isn't put into the star position?

    For whatever reason Reggie's deferred to JO has it backfired and instead of making JO a confident and experienced leader (and 'go to' guy) has it simply fed his ego and created a monster?

    And why have things gotten to a point where the weaknesses in JO's game can be exploited to the point where that is all it takes to beat the Pacers? Coaching? Fear of telling the emperor he has no clothes? Still treading lightly due to the Isiah Thomas firing?

    Is it simply an issue of time and hard knocks (experience) being needed?

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Frankfort, IN
    Posts
    9,096

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Is there a point where JO 'gets it' and becomes a true 'go to' leader and franchise player? Does anyone think he is already there besides the fact he has a max contract?
    I think he was there before he got hurt - the consistency of the 15-18 foot J combined with his quickness in the post made him pretty much unstoppable. And up to when Jax came back he was putting up huge #'s.

    We won't see that JO these playoffs - the shoulder's done to him what Ewing's wrist did - took away the consistent jump shot. Hopefully he can at least get more expolsiveness in the post though.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  8. #8
    sweabs
    Guest

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    JO can be a franchise player assuming he is surrounded with the right supporting cast.

  9. #9
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,930

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think he was there before he got hurt - the consistency of the 15-18 foot J combined with his quickness in the post made him pretty much unstoppable. And up to when Jax came back he was putting up huge #'s.

    We won't see that JO these playoffs - the shoulder's done to him what Ewing's wrist did - took away the consistent jump shot. Hopefully he can at least get more expolsiveness in the post though.
    Which reminds me... does anyone wish that JO would've never had the 55 point game? I keep thinking back to Harrington and his 40 point game....

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  10. #10
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,173

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by ReggieMiller8325
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I rather have Artest any day right now then J.o.PERIOD!
    So...how long after the season ends will your handle become RonArtest8325?

  11. #11
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,173

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We can play this game all day.

    Kobe isnt in the playoffs, but neither is Lebron. If you tell me you wouldnt trade around Lebron, you are either stupid or just plain crazy. Its a moot point if they are in the playoffs.

    T-Mac carried teams before

    So did AI. Remember when he took his team to the finals? by himself?

    I never said any of them were more successfull then JO.
    KG is also not in the playoffs.

    I'm hoping that JO is still just not 100% yet, physically or mentally. We've seen flashes of how unstoppable he can be when he wants to.

  12. #12
    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,755

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    JO is overrated. He needs to not be playing right now, period.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,259

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    The message with KG and LeBron is that even great players can't really carry a team by themselves for more than short stretches. J.O is not really at the level of the top players in the league, but he is close. I would rather have a team with talent at a number of positions than a completely top heavy team.

  14. #14
    Tim
    Guest

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    You guys need to question coaching more.

    JO and every other player listen to the coach or sit, if there was a problem Rick would have fixed it by now. JO is playing pretty much the way Rick wants.

  15. #15
    canyoufeelit
    Guest

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    http://82games.com/04IND15A.HTM

    He takes 70% jumpshots. That is HORRIBLE for what is supposed to be a low post player. He needs to get 40% or more of his points inside like a Duncan or a Shaq instead of 30%

  16. #16
    NotLosingButWinning
    Guest

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by canyoufeelit
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    http://82games.com/04IND15A.HTM

    He takes 70% jumpshots. That is HORRIBLE for what is supposed to be a low post player. He needs to get 40% or more of his points inside like a Duncan or a Shaq instead of 30%

    sometimes he takes those shots because the shot clock is running down and he has to shoot it and other times it is because he is settling for the jumper, but in the last few games he has taken in to the rim more often.

  17. #17
    sweabs
    Guest

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by canyoufeelit
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    http://82games.com/04IND15A.HTM

    He takes 70% jumpshots. That is HORRIBLE for what is supposed to be a low post player. He needs to get 40% or more of his points inside like a Duncan or a Shaq instead of 30%
    Exactly! He needs to stop settling, and go into the paint and use all this extra weight/muscle he put on. Instead, he gets double teamed down low, gets blocked or turns it over and becomes frustrated, so he starts settling for jump shots.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    3,900

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    1. Shaq
    2. T-Mac
    3. AI
    4.Kobe

    D.Wade is close

    Im sure there are others, I just cant think of them off the top of my head
    Yes, J.O. is a franchise player. He's a top 5 player in the league when he's healthy.
    On your list I'd agree with Shaq, but T-Mac, AI, and Koby have all proven they aren't on that level. For Wade, you'll never know until Shaq is gone. Look at how much everyone thought of Penny, and Kobe until they didn't have the dominant big man to play beside.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Frankfort, IN
    Posts
    9,096

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    Quote Originally Posted by canyoufeelit
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    http://82games.com/04IND15A.HTM

    He takes 70% jumpshots. That is HORRIBLE for what is supposed to be a low post player. He needs to get 40% or more of his points inside like a Duncan or a Shaq instead of 30%
    It's also what the Pacers coaching staff wants him to do so he doesn't take so much of a pounding inside.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  20. #20
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    44
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    He's not settling, with Al traded and Ron suspended, he hasn't had any help whatsoever in the interior. He's getting pushed around because he's the only guy on our roster with anything resembling a post game, and I'm not 100% convinced his knee injury from last spring has healed yet, giving him less leverage. Let alone the shoulder injury...

    He probably shouldn't be playing right now, but that has nothing to do with whether he's overrated or not...

    And the answer is, "yes". When healthy, JO *IS* a franchise player.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  21. #21
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,528

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    We've kind of talked about this before & I'll be honest I fluxuate on what I think from time to time.

    I will say this though. I don't think any player should be a MAX. player if they have to be surrounded by a specific player. I can understand needing certain types of players around a max. player but specific players?

    Did Jordan have to have Pippen? I don't know if we can prove that one way or another but I just have a gut feeling that M.J. would have been fine with Joe Dumars or even Reggie Miller.

    I guess I take a couple of things into consideration.

    1. Can they take over a game? If you absolutely positively need a basket can they do it?

    2. Do they make players around them better? Or do they need players around them to make them better?

    3. Are they willing to let someone else be the hero? If they are not the hero will they pout?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  22. #22
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,717

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    I don't know the answer, but I know two things, I have no problem with his max contract and the pacers better not ever trade J.O

  23. #23
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,488

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    Some seem to be forgetting how banged up Jermaine O'Neal is. He probably wouldn't be playing if this were just the regular season.

    Some seem to be forgetting how last year, when healthy, and with good help in the interior, how great JO was, how he led the Pacers to 61 wins, and to the ECF's, playing banged up in the ECF's.

    Though JO was great last year, I noticed he seemed to struggle more than he did when Brad was here. When Brad was here, you couldn't double JO as much because Brad could knock down that midrange J...........Sorry to bring Brad up.

    Jermaine O'Neal is the best player the Pacers have ever had in their NBA franchise history. You're telling me that he is being questioned right now when he is obviously banged up, and is lacking proper help in the interior?

    Reggie didn't lead the Pacers to a playoff series victory until his 7th season with the team. JO led the Pacers to the ECF's in his fourth year with the club.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    My answers to Pecks ?'s

    1a. Can he take over a game? Absolutely

    1b. If you absolutely positively need a basket can they do it? I am not sure on this. He is not as clutch as some go to players (90's Reggie, Jordan, Duncan...) but he better than alot.

    2. Do they make players around them better? Or do they need players around them to make them better? This is the one that gets me with JO. I think you have to be a great passer to make players around you better and JO isn't even a good passer in my opinion. Who else does JO make look like a star?

    3. Are they willing to let someone else be the hero? If they are not the hero will they pout? Don't have enough info to answer this question.

  25. #25
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The Coliseum
    Posts
    6,248

    Default Re: Can JO be a franchise player

    JO won't be a franchise player until he plays like a franchise player. Right now he's just a scorer.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •