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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

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Rule #11

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Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

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  • #16
    Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

    Originally posted by SkipperZ View Post
    They base whether a player is over/underpaid by expected WAR and their formula for calculating dollars / WAR. Its speculative and based on analytics which don't favor players like monta and stuckey (although I do agree that Stuckey was overpaid by quite a bit).

    But even if you disagree with their valuation of Monta/Stuckey, there's no doubt to me that the premise of the article is likely true. The best players are underpaid which leads to overpaid middle-level players.
    So in the union does each player have ONE vote? The middle class should be the majority of players and thus the strongest voting block.
    {o,o}
    |)__)
    -"-"-

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    • #17
      Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

      Stats and poor conclusions. They go together like peanut butter and jelly.

      Stuckey is clearly overpaid. We got a deal on Ellis.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

        My tinfoil hat theory is that Stuckey was signed to be a trade piece down the road. Some team in need of a bench scorer would gladly take that contract.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

          Originally posted by owl View Post
          So in the union does each player have ONE vote? The middle class should be the majority of players and thus the strongest voting block.
          I'm not arguing that the systems wrong or that the players union should look out for its stars. It's definitely better for competitive balance, and as a result for us fans, to have a max contract and salary cap. I'm just saying that in a world with no cap and no max players like lebron would easily make much more than they're making now

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          • #20
            Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

            Originally posted by SkipperZ View Post
            It's definitely better for competitive balance, and as a result for us fans, to have a max contract
            Is it though? I find it hard to believe limiting what a player can make actually improves competitive balance when allowing players to actually make what they are "worth" it would cause the top talent to spread out more as teams would be unable to afford to have 2 or 3 of the top players on the same team. Instead of Shaq going to the Lakers Shaq to team up with Kobe he may have had to go to the Clippers instead if he wanted to be in LA. Wouldn't Shaq on the Clippers and Kobe with the Lakers make the league have better competitive balance than Shaq and Kobe both on the Lakers?

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            • #21
              Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

              I think we will be singing the praises of these contracts next year about this time.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

                Iman Shumpert 4yrs/$40mil
                Demarre Carrol 4yrs/$60mil
                Monta Ellis 4yrs/$44mil

                Sorry, but anybody who thinks the Monta contract is a bad one is delusional.
                //

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                • #23
                  Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

                  Originally posted by CooperManning View Post
                  My tinfoil hat theory is that Stuckey was signed to be a trade piece down the road. Some team in need of a bench scorer would gladly take that contract.
                  My tinfoil has theory as of late is similar. Except George Hill is the man on the trading block. Call me crazy, but it kind of makes sense with the way our roster is right now. He's very redundant with Ellis and even Stuckey - and we lack bigs. Could Hill possibly be traded for a PF or C? He's really the only player on the team with any value that we can actually trade (aside from PG). And it wouldn't hurt us all that bad. I know we love Hill, but this might be worth it for the right player.

                  Forgive me if this is crazy, but I'm getting a little bored with the offseason right now...
                  Lifelong pacers fan

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                  • #24
                    Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

                    Originally posted by pacers_heath View Post
                    My tinfoil has theory as of late is similar. Except George Hill is the man on the trading block. Call me crazy, but it kind of makes sense with the way our roster is right now. He's very redundant with Ellis and even Stuckey - and we lack bigs. Could Hill possibly be traded for a PF or C? He's really the only player on the team with any value that we can actually trade (aside from PG). And it wouldn't hurt us all that bad. I know we love Hill, but this might be worth it for the right player.

                    Forgive me if this is crazy, but I'm getting a little bored with the offseason right now...
                    I hope not. Of the 3 guys, G Hill is the most versatile. Monta is probably the best scorer, but he also has major holes that make him kind of hard to fit into a team. G Hill is a piece that would fit anywhere. And you know, for all the talk of G Hill needing the ball, he's probably the best of the 3 at playing off ball. G Hill is the key for making our planned 2 combo guard backcourt work, IMO.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

                      No idea how anyone can think Stuckey at 7 mil is over paid next to Shumpert's 10 mil per and Carroll's 15 mil per.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

                        Originally posted by diamonddave00 View Post
                        No idea how anyone can think Stuckey at 7 mil is over paid next to Shumpert's 10 mil per and Carroll's 15 mil per.
                        He's overpaid. He's just not Carroll or Shumpert overpaid.

                        And Stuckey being overpaid is ok, cause it's not a huge amount. I just question the signing. He's such a redundant player on the Pacers. Pacers are just collecting combo guards. We'll see if it pays off. I think it won't.

                        Also, anyone who thinks Stuck is going to shoot 39% from 3 again is a bit crazy. He's gonna be closer to his norms and add to the fact that his scoring will be down just cause you have Ellis and PG getting most of the touches. $7M for a guy who's likely to avg 10ppg or less is overpaid.

                        Team is filled with just avg NBA 3pt shooters. Bird wants to stretch the floor, but you traded the only one of the team that was a legit 3pt threat in Rudez. Hopefully with scorers on the team will mean more wide open 3s, which translates to more 3s being made.

                        It could work out, but it's gonna take awhile to figure things out. Even the Cavs started slow last year with new players, and they had LeBron. We'll see if the team can rally around PG13 and start to win games.
                        First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

                          The fact that their beta version of this is called CARMELO alone turns me off from what they have to say...

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                          • #28
                            Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

                            I don't understand why people think Stuckey is overpaid taking into consideration the new market value and cap increase coming up. We are talking about a guy who has been a double figure scorer for the last 7 years in a row.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

                              The fundamental flaw of studies like these is that they don't take into account the evolution of players over time, or how the environment changes around them. They look at previous year's performances, and make a presumption that they will continue the same level of production going forward.

                              When people move to new locations, or participate in a team's fundamental strategic stylistic changes, the previous data has less meaning in many circumstances.

                              As an example, many (myself included) felt like giving George Hill a 5/40 contract was a little too rich. Since then, many things have changed: our whole offensive model has changed, he's matured and gotten comfortable here in Indy, etc. I can't imagine anyone today saying that George Hill is overpaid (unless you have some sort of inherent bias against the guy).

                              So, even though I'm a numbers guy, I'd never put my reputation at stake writing an article that has these kinds of fundamental flaws in it's design. It almost feels a bit like click bait, honestly.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Ellis, Stuckey not bargains for Pacers?

                                Originally posted by Sparhawk View Post
                                He's overpaid. He's just not Carroll or Shumpert overpaid.

                                And Stuckey being overpaid is ok, cause it's not a huge amount. I just question the signing. He's such a redundant player on the Pacers. Pacers are just collecting combo guards. We'll see if it pays off. I think it won't.
                                As I said above, we felt the same way about George Hill when he got re-signed.

                                I suspect that by year 3, we'll be feeling a lot different. He has the kind of maturity that indicates continued development and productivity. He still has upside from my perspective. I think Bird likes Stuckey as a core piece that in the new cap world will seem relatively inexpensive.

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