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Thread: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

  1. #26
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    There's a lot of great stuff in here. I don't know how I missed this thread earlier...

    This is what I don't get. Many people complain when we don't develop the young/bench guys. Well, the best way to do that is to build a big lead and stick them in there. I like that Rick is going deep into the bench. It helps develop the players and gives them alot of experience whether they lose the lead or not. Bottom line is we get the win AND give the bench some development. Best of both worlds if you ask me.

    Now if the same type of thing (leaving the bench in too long) in the playoffs, then that may be a different matter. But for now, I think its a good thing.
    I like it more earlier in the season. Now is the time of year we should be shortening the rotations to get ready for the playoffs.

    Even handed? Insightful? How about idiotic? Jump off fair weather bandwagonners. We don't need you or WANT you. BYE now!
    I disagree. I thought the original post was excellent although I might argue a few of the points.

    I registered here so I could defend what I wrote. Thanks bulletproof for posting it here.

    On Al Harrington:

    -snip-
    Besides, my reason for saying Al isn't starter material isn't that he's peaked, my reason for saying that is that he's a tweener. The problem with tweeners is that they really struggle with defensive assignments because they are too slow to guard small forwards or shooting guards and they are not bulky enough to guard power forwards. In the playoffs last year, Paul Pierce exploded when Al tried to guard him, and did pretty much nothing when Ron guarded him. When Al starts it will be too easy for the other team to create mismatches.

    Given that Al has some great offensive skills, I think the fact that he's a tweener makes the role of first scorer off the bench the perfect role for him. He's not a well-rounded player, so when there are other scorers like JO in the game who dominate the ball, Al doesn't really do much for us. As bulletproof said, I wasn't putting Al down, I was just saying that the loss of Ron means we are not in a good position to utilize Al's talents. That's why he's been struggling, and he will continue to struggle until Ron gets back, I think.

    -snip-

    I've noticed that blaming the coach is one of the main things fans do when they can't accept that the players aren't as amazing as they think they are. Blaming the officials is another one.

    And last but least,

    On fair-weather fans

    Dude, PacerMan, I'm not a fair-weather fan, you're just a fan who likes to pretend that there's fair weather when there isn't. [size=15:71fac7d5e8]I expect a lot from my team, and when I don't see it, I worry about it. I think I just care more about the Pacers than you do, because evidently when they get blown out of the gym twice by a second-tier team like the Hornets you think there's no problem. Maybe when your team loses in the playoffs, you can only be upset for 3 minutes and then get over it because you're sure they'll come back and win the championship next year. Sorry if it means a little more to me than that.[/size]

    Thanks for the comments everyone!
    Please post more often.

    Actually, I liked some of the additional analysis even better. I really, really liked the part I bolded. Yes, I was on suicide watch a couple of weeks ago, but that's because the Pacers are my first love (my wife is fine with status, by the way). I've always resented the "bandwagon jumper" comments that sometimes come out if I'm down on a player, "my" team, etc. If I was a f@c#ing bandwagon jumper, I'd just give up. But I've made waaayy too much of an emotional investment in this team over the past twenty-five years or so to 'quit' on my team. Instead, Hell hath no fury like a Pacers' fan scorned. I'll never get my 1999 or 2000 championships, and I really want one NOW!

    Also, I agree with your point on Al as a "tweener". I was thinking about this today - he could start for a lot of teams, but so can Elton Brand. I wouldn't want to be pinning my hopes for a deep playoff run from a team where either one of those guys is the starting PF, however.

    -snip-
    I figured it out, Rick would rather we use the entire shot clock and not score than score at the begining of the clock. Thats why AJ gets so much playing time he does not get the team into scoring position at all let alone early in the clock! Same with Worst dribble dribble dribble late pass clang.


    Couldn't have said it better myself... Except you left out Travis Bust's superior ability to get the rim [size=9:71fac7d5e8] just to get his shot blocked > 75% of the time. [/size]
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  2. #27
    Oh What Could Have Been! fwpacerfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    Great post Monkeydude. Pretty objective, although a little harder than need be, but that's what makes us fan(atical)s.

    JO isn't being asked to do too much, but he has seemed to have gotten lazy and is settling for jumpers. I don't see JO working to get post position like he was earlier in the year, maybe his knee is bothering him more than he lets on.

    I totally disagree with your bench statement. Since Ron has gone down the bench has outscored the opponents bench 156 to 106 and has out rebounded them 67 to 52. The bench has put up 34% of the teams points in this stretch. That is very good production.

    Jonathon Bender has been very effective since his return - 10.5 points in 17 minutes - I'll take it. Also this would qualify, imho, for being an 'effective scorer off the bench.'

    I agree with your defensive assesments. I've said all year that this team needs Pollard for the playoffs - his post defense is good, maybe even pretty good, when he's guarding big players. I thought he was effective against Dampier last week and I felt Rick should've used him more against NO.

    I agree with the heart issue as well, but I don't think this team is playing out of control as much as it's learning to work without Ron.

    On that issue, it looks like Ron may be back this week :Ron's Return - although I don't think there is a need to rush him back and risk re-injuring his hand.

    Even though it's not popular around here, I don't think the 'sky is falling.' I was very pleased to see teams we struggled with beat the teams that are so much better than us (namely Minnesota and Detroit). The Sixers beat the Wolves and Utah handled Detroit. Of course NO lost to the Wizards, but for some reason NO gets up for the Pacers more than the Pacers get up for them.
    "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
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  3. #28
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    Of course NO lost to the Wizards, but for some reason NO gets up for the Pacers more than the Pacers get up for them.
    Its hard to get "up" for a team who you hammered. Yes they beat us the first game after the break but we had hammered them the time before that. They have beat us twice now but in both of those games we were without Artest (I know he played in the first one we lost but he was clearly not close to healthy as he had surgery the next day)

    So to be really scared of them we would need to loose to them at full strength. Also I think we lost the second one on coaching. Players have bad nights there is no reason to think that coaches are always on. Rick had a bad night his substitutions were terrible and he had clearly given up way early with who he had in the game. Then when thigs started to turn he started puting other players back in and it was to late.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    They also played the first two without Mashburn. And hammered us the last two times without Wesley. Don't just take Pacer injuries into account. I still like the Pacers in a 7 game series with them, but they scare me more than the Nets or Pistons simply because of the match-up problems they present for us.

    Good point but I like our chances. I am more worried about New Jersey simply because they were in the finals the last two years.


    And I know this belongs in another thread but to the people who think we will go 1-3 or 0-4 on this trip.

    Do you realize that we have not lost three of four games since Tins regained the starting job? And that we have not lost more than 2 in a row all season?

  5. #30
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    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    JO isn't being asked to do too much, but he has seemed to have gotten lazy and is settling for jumpers. I don't see JO working to get post position like he was earlier in the year, maybe his knee is bothering him more than he lets on.

    I totally disagree with your bench statement. Since Ron has gone down the bench has outscored the opponents bench 156 to 106 and has out rebounded them 67 to 52. The bench has put up 34% of the teams points in this stretch. That is very good production.

    Jonathon Bender has been very effective since his return - 10.5 points in 17 minutes - I'll take it. Also this would qualify, imho, for being an 'effective scorer off the bench.'

    I agree with the heart issue as well, but I don't think this team is playing out of control as much as it's learning to work without Ron.

    On that issue, it looks like Ron may be back this week :Ron's Return - although I don't think there is a need to rush him back and risk re-injuring his hand.

    Even though it's not popular around here, I don't think the 'sky is falling.' I was very pleased to see teams we struggled with beat the teams that are so much better than us (namely Minnesota and Detroit). The Sixers beat the Wolves and Utah handled Detroit. Of course NO lost to the Wizards, but for some reason NO gets up for the Pacers more than the Pacers get up for them.
    Agreed on the JO statement.

    I'm sorry but if JO is MVP material and the best big man in the East...then he needs to carry this team...on occasion...now being one of them when Ron is out....

    As monkeydude and others pointed out... Ron is key in matching up better with NO,,,but Jermaine in my opinion needs to play bigger physically against them... not fade to the perimeter on offense.... not get dunked on by a point guard... and shouldn't be trying to take charges in the lane... like it or not he is our interior presence and needs to play like one of the best shot blockers and Power forwards in the league... NO went waltzing into the lane without fear against us last time out....

    Agreed on shortening the rotation I'd like to see Jamal stay in longer in the 1st period, and come back sooner in the second... it would benefit the second unit to run with Jamal a little bit... especially JB and FJ... but other than the NO game our bench has been playing well.

    JB and FJ have been our most consistant bench players since the break...i look for them to continue that... Reggie needs less time, to rest up for the playoffs...he looks leg weary lately

    Pollard man... maybe he should just always stay on the defensive end of the court, while we play 4 on 5 on the offensive end... how you can have a wide open tip in and almost shatter the back-board is beyond me....get him out of the weight room or something.

    It isn't panic time at all... ... NO got spanked by Washington last night..... Detroit lost to Utah last night...and looked bad doing it... not that any of this justifies anything... Your just seeing teams making adjustments to changes in personnel or dealing with injuries and getting prepared for the playoffs.

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