Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30

Thread: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

  1. #1

    Default GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    This was posted by a regular over on the Pacers' board on realgm. It's well-written, even-handed and insightful. And a quick read as well. Enjoy.


    It is time for us as Pacers fans to wake up from our dreams of an NBA championship and realize that without Ron Artest, we are not a good basketball team. We may not even get out of the first round without him. Since the All-Star break, we have struggled in every single game, even though we have played 4 games against bad teams and 2 games against a second-tier team, the Hornets. And both times we played the Hornets, we got blown out. If we can't consistently beat the dregs of the NBA, what will we do when we face an up-and-coming team like the Heat or the Cavaliers that has not been in the playoffs for years and will be playing its heart out?

    1. Jermaine O'Neal is being asked to do too much. We don't have anyone who can be consistently relied on as his second option. Some nights Reggie is that guy, some nights it's Al, but some nights no one else shows up. Without a second option, our offense can go on long dry spells. That's what happened last year against the Celtics in the playoffs.

    2. Jermaine O'Neal is taking too many jumpers and not playing effectively enough in the post on offense. In the playoffs, you need a consistent post game to wear down your opponents' big men. But Jermaine is looking a little worn out himself, probably because the burden of carrying this team on his back is a little much for him. So instead of being a banger, he is taking jumpers, and so his shooting percentage is way too low for a superstar power forward.

    3. We have no effective scorer off the bench. Without Artest, Al becomes a starter, but Al is the only one who has shown he is capable of putting up 15 points off the bench on any given night. Our second unit right now is horrible at scoring. Our best bench scorers right now are Jonathan Bender and Fred Jones and Austin Croshere. That is just not good enough to succeed in the playoffs.

    4. Jonathan Bender is still not ready to be an important part of our rotation. I know it's exciting to see him play after all this time, and he is showing flashes of stardom. Even his defense and his post game have improved. But he is also showing flashes of scrub-dom. At times he is a foul machine, a turnover machine, and a bricklayer all at once. You don't want to rely on that kind of inconsistent player in the playoffs, especially when you have a stubborn coach who won't change the rotation if a player is playing like crap.

    5. Al Harrington is not good enough to be a starter in the NBA. I've seen enough of this guy to determine that he is what he is, a good sixth man who gives you problems if he's starting for you. He can score very well at times, but he's a hopeless tweener, not quick or explosive enough to play small forward and not powerful enough to play power forward. At best he's a rich man's Maurice Taylor, and he's old enough that he won't get much better.

    6. Except for Freddie Jones, our perimeter defense sucks. All year I've been saying that Anthony Johnson can't guard a turnip, and Jamaal Tinsley and Reggie Miller aren't exactly studs themselves. Even Freddie has trouble guarding taller shooting guards, although he's quick enough to stay with anyone.

    7. Our post defense is still our strongest point, because Jermaine O'Neal and Jeff Foster are both pretty good at this, and so is Scot Pollard, but even our post defense isn't as good without Artest. Everyone knows Artest is the best man defender in the NBA, but he's underrated as a help defender, and he ventures into the post quite often if he needs to. Also, a key part of post defense is defensive rebounding, and we are being outrebounded even by teams like the Sixers who have horrible frontcourts. When we play strong teams like the Hornets, we get killed inside. Ron's rebounds are being sorely missed.

    8. We have no heart. Ron Artest is the emotional leader of this team, and the guys feed off him and play hard. In that regard, as an emotional leader, he's like Allen Iverson and Michael Jordan, his teammates just know it's unacceptable not to be giving it their all when he's on the court. He demands that you give 100 percent. But now, we have guys coming onto the court playing lazy ball and taking three or four minutes to get into their rhythm. Jermaine and Al are guilty of this quite often. They don't have the killer instinct to put teams away as soon as possible; Ron does.

    9. We are playing out of control. Our team has received at least one technical foul in every game since the All-Star break. Rick Carlisle has gotten a total of five, and our players have gotten some too. Instead of showing determination, we are standing around whining about calls. That is completely unacceptable and needs to change as soon as possible.

    In summary, Ron Artest is the leader of the Indiana Pacers in too many ways to count. There are very few guys in the NBA who are able to consistently put their teams on their back and will them to victory. I mean VERY few. Jermaine O'Neal is not one of those guys, neither is Shaq, neither is Tracy McGrady, neither are a lot of great players. Ron Artest is one of them. The journey that he has taken to get here is remarkable. From his experience growing up, to his anger management problems, to all the people back home who depend on him and that he comes through for (remember how he worked at Best Buy when he joined the NBA), for him to have the success he has had, it's the American Dream. It almost brings tears to my eyes to think about it. I don't understand how anyone can't like this kid. Guys like him are the reason I'm a sports fan, that's the truth.

    Ron Artest is SOOO important to our team that without him, we go from one of the best 3-4 teams in the NBA to maybe a little above average -- and I really do believe we're just a little above average right now.

    So guys, let's hope Ron Artest gets better. Our season depends on it.

  2. #2
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,585
    Mood

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    I really miss Ron Artest.

  3. #3

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    Wow, that was really good.
    Sobering analysis.

  4. #4
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Age
    42
    Posts
    5,742

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    I agree that we would not go deep without Ron but I dont think we are facing that. I take solace in the fact that the two times we defeated the Hornets we had Ron the two losses he was either about to undergo surgery because he was already injured or was not in the game at all.

    Of course Al seems to be starting to adjust to the starters role now with his game tonight. So maybe the put down of Al was a little too soon

  5. #5

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    Of course Al seems to be starting to adjust to the starters role now with his game tonight. So maybe the put down of Al was a little too soon

    Did you see it as a put down? I thought it was pretty objective. I think his post highlighed how well-balanced we were before Ron's departure. And it is just one game. It's not like we blew the Sixers out.

  6. #6
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Age
    42
    Posts
    5,742

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    Did you see it as a put down? I thought it was pretty objective. And it is just one game. It's not like we blew the Sixers out.
    Not so much as a put down but he said that Al was not good enough to be a starter and I was just saying that tonight he looked a lot more into the flow of the game. He looked like a starter tonight.

    I think we didnt blow this out only because of the substitution pattern.

    Rick seems to like to play the second unit as long as possible and let other teams back into games. It really bothers me that as soon as we get a good lead the starters come out and the bench comes in and lets the other team back in.

  7. #7

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    Rick seems to like to play the second unit as long as possible and let other teams back into games. It really bothers me that as soon as we get a good lead the starters come out and the bench comes in and lets the other team back in.

    This is what is being said on both boards. It has to be apparent to Bird as well. Perhaps it's time for him to sit his young coach down and have a heart-to-heart.

  8. #8
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,585
    Mood

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    Rick seems to like to play the second unit as long as possible and let other teams back into games. It really bothers me that as soon as we get a good lead the starters come out and the bench comes in and lets the other team back in.

    This is what is being said on both boards. It has to be apparent to Bird as well. Perhaps it's time for him to sit his young coach down and have a heart-to-heart.
    Don't see why he would, Bird was the same way in the 90's.

  9. #9
    Member Netweeny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Akron, Ohio
    Age
    40
    Posts
    87

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    This is what I don't get. Many people complain when we don't develop the young/bench guys. Well, the best way to do that is to build a big lead and stick them in there. I like that Rick is going deep into the bench. It helps develop the players and gives them alot of experience whether they lose the lead or not. Bottom line is we get the win AND give the bench some development. Best of both worlds if you ask me.

    Now if the same type of thing (leaving the bench in too long) in the playoffs, then that may be a different matter. But for now, I think its a good thing.

  10. #10
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,585
    Mood

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    This is what I don't get. Many people complain when we don't develop the young/bench guys. Well, the best way to do that is to build a big lead and stick them in there. I like that Rick is going deep into the bench. It helps develop the players and gives them alot of experience whether they lose the lead or not. Bottom line is we get the win AND give the bench some development. Best of both worlds if you ask me.

    Now if the same type of thing (leaving the bench in too long) in the playoffs, then that may be a different matter. But for now, I think its a good thing.
    Good point.

  11. #11

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    [quote="PacerMan"]
    Even handed? Insightful? How about idiotic? Jump off fair weather bandwagonners. We don't need you or WANT you. BYE now!

    I suspect people don't take you very seriously here.

  12. #12

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    Some of the points were good but parts were off.

    He was being rough on Al and I think he is wrong about Al not being starter material. To say that Al at 23 won't get better because he has peaked is laughable.

    He was quick to judge Bender too if what he was going by were the games played since Ron has been out.

    Shaq can't carry a team?

    Ron can carry a team? Lets see this team without JO for an extended period and see how true that is. Just a year ago Ron was a big part of this team falling apart.

    By the way I really do like Ron but the point was overstated.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  13. #13
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,805

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    i'm getting mixed signals here.

    sometimes i've read that the bench guys (bender, for instance) were hot and shouldn't have been pulled from the game. ergo, carlisle's sub pattern were bad.

    sometimes i've read that the starters were doing a good job and shouldn't have been pulled from the game. ergo, carlisle's sub patterns were bad.

    do we really want to go back to isiah thomas coaching here? because it seemed to me that was always what he did - he'd go with whoever is playing well, resulting in very unpredictable substitution patterns. as a result, the players - the young players especially - try to do too much when they get floor time.

    rick carlisle's system is much more structured. it involves, among other things, regular substitution patterns. it means sticking with the plan. it becomes second nature to the players, which makes them more efficient. it might hurt during short term stretches, like when one player is hot, but overall it makes for a more successful team, as the results show so far.

  14. #14
    Monkeydude
    Guest

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    I registered here so I could defend what I wrote. Thanks bulletproof for posting it here.

    On Al Harrington:

    First of all, he's 24, not 23. It may not seem like a big difference, but there's no reason to misrepresent a player's age to make him seem like he has more room for improvement than he does. The assumption that a player will keep getting better every year until he's 27 is an assumption that many 15-year-olds have made over the years, but eventually they realize it doesn't work that way. I have argued several times on other boards that players reach their potential at the age of 24, that the only exceptions are hard-nosed guys with an incredible work ethic. That does not describe Al, so I think he's in his prime now.

    Besides, my reason for saying Al isn't starter material isn't that he's peaked, my reason for saying that is that he's a tweener. The problem with tweeners is that they really struggle with defensive assignments because they are too slow to guard small forwards or shooting guards and they are not bulky enough to guard power forwards. In the playoffs last year, Paul Pierce exploded when Al tried to guard him, and did pretty much nothing when Ron guarded him. When Al starts it will be too easy for the other team to create mismatches.

    Given that Al has some great offensive skills, I think the fact that he's a tweener makes the role of first scorer off the bench the perfect role for him. He's not a well-rounded player, so when there are other scorers like JO in the game who dominate the ball, Al doesn't really do much for us. As bulletproof said, I wasn't putting Al down, I was just saying that the loss of Ron means we are not in a good position to utilize Al's talents. That's why he's been struggling, and he will continue to struggle until Ron gets back, I think.

    On Jonathan Bender:

    His game still has serious holes, anyone can see that. I think it's great that we have a guy on our roster with as much talent as he does, but when we are a championship contender it's stupid to worry about developing talent. We need to play the consistent performers who we know can step up, not the guys who sometimes look great and sometimes look awful because they're too young to be consistent. If we were an average team, I'd feel differently.

    Remember that Jonathan Bender played the fourth quarter of Game 1 against the Celtics last year, and his atrocious performance probably cost us that game, which proved pivotal in the series. Do you want to repeat that? I don't.

    On Ron Artest:

    When I talk about putting a team on his back and willing it to victory, I'm talking about his attitude, not how many points he scores. Ron Artest cares about winning more than he cares about being alive. Guys feed off that kind of heart. There is a tiny handful of guys with that kind of heart, I'm talking about Artest, Allen Iverson, Ben Wallace, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Mike Bibby, and Kobe Bryant. They aren't all the best players in the league, but they're the guys you win championships with.

    And Shaq? Please. That guy is an oaf who gets fat in the offseason and doesn't take care of his body. He has no heart at all. What a waste of talent.

    On Rick Carlisle:

    I was going to say something about the way you guys are criticizing his rotations, but then I saw that wintermute said exactly what I wanted to say. C'mon people, do you REALLY want Isiah Thomas again? Look at the standings, we lost an All-Star center and replaced him with a stiff, but we got much better. Time to fire the coach!

    I've noticed that blaming the coach is one of the main things fans do when they can't accept that the players aren't as amazing as they think they are. Blaming the officials is another one.

    And last but least,
    On fair-weather fans

    Dude, PacerMan, I'm not a fair-weather fan, you're just a fan who likes to pretend that there's fair weather when there isn't. I expect a lot from my team, and when I don't see it, I worry about it. I think I just care more about the Pacers than you do, because evidently when they get blown out of the gym twice by a second-tier team like the Hornets you think there's no problem. Maybe when your team loses in the playoffs, you can only be upset for 3 minutes and then get over it because you're sure they'll come back and win the championship next year. Sorry if it means a little more to me than that.

    Thanks for the comments everyone!

  15. #15

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    Thanks for stopping by Monkeydude; you should come by and post more often.

  16. #16
    PD original FireTheCoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    southport, indiana
    Age
    44
    Posts
    626

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    Time to fire the coach!

    I've noticed that blaming the coach is one of the main things fans do when they can't accept that the players aren't as amazing as they think they are.


    NICE....!

    I couldn't have said it better myself. I always get a chuckle outta the fans that want to FireTheCoach.... LOL.

  17. #17
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Age
    42
    Posts
    5,742

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    do we really want to go back to isiah thomas coaching here? because it seemed to me that was always what he did - he'd go with whoever is playing well, resulting in very unpredictable substitution patterns. as a result, the players - the young players especially - try to do too much when they get floor time.
    Actually thats not entirely true. How many times would Austin come into the game score 10 points in 4 minutes and get yanked not to play again for months. Jeff was the same way he would play the greatest game of his career in the 1st half and not see the floor in the 2nd half.

    There were a million times I screemed at the TV durring the Isiah reign of terror over him pulling a player who was hot. You seem to be confused because he would never pul Ron when he was getting hot. And by hot I mean about to blow his top.

    My problem with what Rick is doing is he is giving way way to many minutes to the backups. I am not so mad about when he took Tins out in the 1st quarter. Its how long he waited into the 2nd to put him back in. There is a difference there can you see it? The starters need rest I know that and everyone knows that. AJ is only good for a couple of minutes a game not 20.

    On the other side of the coin if Bender is in there and he has hit 4 shots in a row leave him in a couple of extra minutes. I am not asking that he play untill he drops but go ahead and see what he can do.

  18. #18

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    ...second-tier team like the Hornets...
    1) Which Eastern Conference teams do you consider first-tier and second-tier?

    2) How do you decide that teams are second-tier? The reason I ask is that the Hornets are 32-27 and you are comparing them to another "second-tier" team, the 76ers, who are 23-36.

    3) Why the name MonkeyDude?

  19. #19
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    8,623

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    do we really want to go back to isiah thomas coaching here? because it seemed to me that was always what he did - he'd go with whoever is playing well, resulting in very unpredictable substitution patterns. as a result, the players - the young players especially - try to do too much when they get floor time.
    Actually thats not entirely true. How many times would Austin come into the game score 10 points in 4 minutes and get yanked not to play again for months. Jeff was the same way he would play the greatest game of his career in the 1st half and not see the floor in the 2nd half.

    There were a million times I screemed at the TV durring the Isiah reign of terror over him pulling a player who was hot. You seem to be confused because he would never pul Ron when he was getting hot. And by hot I mean about to blow his top.

    My problem with what Rick is doing is he is giving way way to many minutes to the backups. I am not so mad about when he took Tins out in the 1st quarter. Its how long he waited into the 2nd to put him back in. There is a difference there can you see it? The starters need rest I know that and everyone knows that. AJ is only good for a couple of minutes a game not 20.

    On the other side of the coin if Bender is in there and he has hit 4 shots in a row leave him in a couple of extra minutes. I am not asking that he play untill he drops but go ahead and see what he can do.
    I could not agree more, the last two games were perfect examples.

    The first 3 - 4 minutes of the game people get into the feel of the game, as usual our offense starts running around that time, we get a lead, 5 - 7 -15 points. Tins puts up 5 Ast, 2 Rb , 2 - 8 points and there is a "flow" then we hit the 8 - 9 minute mark, out comes Jeff, out comes Tins.

    We will not see Tins back on average before the 5 min mark in the second Q.

    Last thing I'm saying is FireTheCoach! BUT we ARE allowed to notice things that are in OUR view detrimental to the team, which is the substitution patterns.

    The full bench on the floor is nice, but certainly without JB not a nice sight nor a winning one.

    The FACT that other teams get away with double and triple teaming JO is because of those sub-patterns, there is simply no one on the floor to take over, no Tins to drive/shoot/pass no Reg to shoot, no Al to post, no Ron to hustle or create, Cro remains a streak player, JB showed promise and would have probably made a difference last night, but fact is we have not or only in a few minutes shown why we are one of the best teams in the league these past 4 - 5 games.

    I think that to show pride in themselves, and to give it to us fans they should demolish a team like the sixers last night and I can even forgive them for losing twice to NO in one week, certainly after we've (the coach) more or less gave up after the 3d Q and "others" were played.

    On a sidenote: i notice that Fred is more and more taking over the PG role when he and AJ are in at the same time, this however clashes with the time when he is on the floor with Tins, which was visible last night.

    The change in the rotations due to Ron's absence are hard to overcome for some players, Al is one who has obvious problems with it, but he is not the only one, Jeff seems to struggle as well and so does JO on defense, he is obviously told to be careful not to get in to foul trouble because him out as well would be deadly for the team.

    I do hope to see more of JB because I have the hope he will get into his own before the playoffs and be a part of importance then, just in case.

    NO do not fire the coach, but do have him look at himself and the substitutions he is making, if we can see the "flow" stopping then he surely must be seeing it
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  20. #20
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Age
    42
    Posts
    5,742

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    I certainly dont want the coach fired. I cant imagine this team with an Isiah at the reigns.

    I am simply concerned about the amount of time given to the backup point guard. There have been to many games to count where we had a lead when Tins sat only to have to lead not only gone but we are behind before Tins comes back in.

    To his credit the majority of the time he is able to change the flow of the game and give us the lead in time for AJ to come back in and give it away again. (I know AJ has not given it away in every single game but more than not he has). The Hornets game was a good example. Had AJ only played say the last two of the first and one or two of the second we might have been able to avoind the colapse.

    But instead he was left in there so long that the Hornets pus a run on us and put us down by 11. Rick does not allow the team to run in order to catch that back up. Tins started to and got benched for the lob to Oneal and never saw the floor again. I just really believe that Rick does not trust Tins and would much rather have Kenny or AJ in there. That scares me because Tins is clearly without a doubt the best pg on this team.

  21. #21

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    I registered here so I could defend what I wrote. Thanks bulletproof for posting it here.

    On Al Harrington:

    First of all, he's 24, not 23. It may not seem like a big difference, but there's no reason to misrepresent a player's age to make him seem like he has more room for improvement than he does. The assumption that a player will keep getting better every year until he's 27 is an assumption that many 15-year-olds have made over the years, but eventually they realize it doesn't work that way. I have argued several times on other boards that players reach their potential at the age of 24, that the only exceptions are hard-nosed guys with an incredible work ethic. That does not describe Al, so I think he's in his prime now.

    Besides, my reason for saying Al isn't starter material isn't that he's peaked, my reason for saying that is that he's a tweener. The problem with tweeners is that they really struggle with defensive assignments because they are too slow to guard small forwards or shooting guards and they are not bulky enough to guard power forwards. In the playoffs last year, Paul Pierce exploded when Al tried to guard him, and did pretty much nothing when Ron guarded him. When Al starts it will be too easy for the other team to create mismatches.

    Given that Al has some great offensive skills, I think the fact that he's a tweener makes the role of first scorer off the bench the perfect role for him. He's not a well-rounded player, so when there are other scorers like JO in the game who dominate the ball, Al doesn't really do much for us. As bulletproof said, I wasn't putting Al down, I was just saying that the loss of Ron means we are not in a good position to utilize Al's talents. That's why he's been struggling, and he will continue to struggle until Ron gets back, I think.

    On Jonathan Bender:

    His game still has serious holes, anyone can see that. I think it's great that we have a guy on our roster with as much talent as he does, but when we are a championship contender it's stupid to worry about developing talent. We need to play the consistent performers who we know can step up, not the guys who sometimes look great and sometimes look awful because they're too young to be consistent. If we were an average team, I'd feel differently.

    Remember that Jonathan Bender played the fourth quarter of Game 1 against the Celtics last year, and his atrocious performance probably cost us that game, which proved pivotal in the series. Do you want to repeat that? I don't.

    On Ron Artest:

    When I talk about putting a team on his back and willing it to victory, I'm talking about his attitude, not how many points he scores. Ron Artest cares about winning more than he cares about being alive. Guys feed off that kind of heart. There is a tiny handful of guys with that kind of heart, I'm talking about Artest, Allen Iverson, Ben Wallace, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Mike Bibby, and Kobe Bryant. They aren't all the best players in the league, but they're the guys you win championships with.

    And Shaq? Please. That guy is an oaf who gets fat in the offseason and doesn't take care of his body. He has no heart at all. What a waste of talent.

    Thanks for the comments everyone!
    First off let me say I am glad to have you and hope that you do post more often. While I disagree on some points you took a stand and that's always more interesting. I in no way see you as a fair whether fan

    About Al. I don't know if the is much we see eye to eye on. I misquoted his age only because I did not know his birthday was two weeks ago. Not trying to twist the facts there.

    There is truth that at 24 a player ceases to be a young player and looked at as untapped potential but that doesn't mean they are in thier primes. Largely because players get better at the intangibles and smarter. The older a player gets the better he gets at winning and knowing what it takes. So yes I believe without a doubt that Al's best basketball is yet to come.

    I believe that Al has a great work ethic and have never heard that questioned. In fact I believe his time in Florida in the off season is one of the harder programs out there.

    Al is a very good defender and in the past has shown himself as a great defender. Al can guard 90% of the forwards in the association. So I don't think that Al's tweener size comes in to play. If not being as good of a defender as Ron or having Pierce explode on you makes a player a bad defender I don't how many good defenders there are out there.

    You are the only person I have heard say that Al is not of starter material. Most of the "experts" and posters I believe think that Al would be starting on other teams. In fact a leading reason people want Al traded is because they don't think it is good for team chemistry to have a young player of starter ability to continue coming off the bench.

    I also believe that Al is a versitle player in fact to his detriment as he struggles to find a role on the team. He can do a lot of things well. In fact I believe he could be a defensive stopper, a serviceable point forward, be a post threat, spot up shooter any number of things if he were called to do it and his role was clearly defined. This season he has been asked to score up until now as a first option with the second unit. His role has changed in the since Ron's injury let's give him more than 4 games to adjust.


    On Bender and Shaq I am going to be quicker because I don't like defending either one because one hasn't done anything and the other is a Laker.

    Bender turns 24 next year. By your own theory if we don't give him minutes to see what he can do and develope him when do we do it?
    We have to put Jon out there just to see what he can do its been long enough. Secondly if inconsistant play is your standard of earning no mins. I'm not sure if we could field a five man team on the Pacers.

    While Shaq is on the decline, has a questionable work ethic and the only good thing about him is he isn't Kobe I have to give him his due. Shaq has won three championships so far being the center of everything the do on both ends of the court if that isn't carrying the team I don't know what is. With out him LA wouldn't have won anything. (And the Pacers would have a championship banner.)
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  22. #22
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    8,623

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    I certainly dont want the coach fired. I cant imagine this team with an Isiah at the reigns.

    I am simply concerned about the amount of time given to the backup point guard. There have been to many games to count where we had a lead when Tins sat only to have to lead not only gone but we are behind before Tins comes back in.

    To his credit the majority of the time he is able to change the flow of the game and give us the lead in time for AJ to come back in and give it away again. (I know AJ has not given it away in every single game but more than not he has). The Hornets game was a good example. Had AJ only played say the last two of the first and one or two of the second we might have been able to avoind the colapse.

    But instead he was left in there so long that the Hornets pus a run on us and put us down by 11. Rick does not allow the team to run in order to catch that back up. Tins started to and got benched for the lob to Oneal and never saw the floor again. I just really believe that Rick does not trust Tins and would much rather have Kenny or AJ in there. That scares me because Tins is clearly without a doubt the best pg on this team.
    Scary much agreement here, also look at yesterday, plus minus says "something" when looking at "one" position, Tins +12 AJ -5

    As for the lob to JO, again full agreement, where it was even noted that JO "missed" that and was not a "bad pass". Would've put us 3 behind now iot became 7, Tins was pulled and they went to +15 in the next 2 minutes.

    Tins, despite what some might think here, is one of the "better" players on the team, he has in a lot of games now, scored crucial points to end runs or change the flow, his passing is very good and if Reg hit a few more of his shots the last couple of games he would easily be collecting double doubles over those same games.

    Leaving the stat lines aside, which most only like when they speak in their favour, otherwise they are "just stat lines" it is still obvious that the starters play better with Tins on the floor, there is better spacing, there is better positional play, I fail to understand why KA does not get some minutes behind Tins, but if AJ has to get them then at least limit them to a length that is no more then what backups normally get, not half games.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  23. #23
    Member rabid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,321

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!!




















































  24. #24
    Member rabid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,321

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    Jon Bender (last 5 games, not including DNP vs Philly)

    16.75 min
    10.5 pts
    1.5 rebounds
    1 assist
    1. 5 blocks
    .5 steals
    1.5 turnovers

    Not bad for a guy who hasn't played all year.

    31.2 pts per game from our bench in the past 5 games (without Al of course). Not spectacular but definitely not bad.

    4-1 since Ron's been out.

    Our next 10 games:

    @ Golden State
    @ L.A. Clippers
    @ Utah
    @ Denver
    Toronto
    @ Boston
    @ Cleveland
    Portland
    Sacramento
    @ Memphis

    I think we'll be OK folks. Everybody take a deep breath, calm down and let's watch some basketball.

    Pacers aren't looking too spectacular right now, but we're not playing nearly as bad as some of you are claiming. Look at some of the teams we're playing down the stretch... One of our best players is out until the playoffs and we're still winning most of our games. We're 1/2 game from having the best record in the NBA.

    Sheesh, look at how this team was (not) playing this time LAST year. Sorry, but even though I might be a little concerned, I'm definitely not flipping out. There are a LOT of positives to see in this team right now and I'm looking forward to seeing this team respond to a little adversity.

    So go ahead and sign me up for the SUNSHINE BRIGADE!!!!
    ed:

  25. #25
    Member Ragnar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Age
    42
    Posts
    5,742

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: GREAT CURRENT ANALYSIS OF TEAM

    If you think I am coming across as being down on the club I am not.

    I am merely concerned with one issue. The reason that I am concerned with it is that when Rick was the assistant durring the Bird year we did the exact same thing with Travis Worst. He played way way too much I took it that Jax was just too ald to play that many minutes but now I am beginning to wonder.

    The thing that really irks me is that Tins is a better defender now than AJ and yet he still isnt getting the pt that he should. Brewer is a way way better defender than AJ but he wont play at all. So I was wondering why is it that a defensive minded coach would not play his best defender at the pg spot?

    I figured it out, Rick would rather we use the entire shot clock and not score than score at the begining of the clock. Thats why AJ gets so much playing time he does not get the team into scoring position at all let alone early in the clock! Same with Worst dribble dribble dribble late pass clang.

    It isnt the D if it were the two pg rotation would be Tins and Brewer. But neither of them have any intrest in waiting on the end of the shot clock.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •