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All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

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  • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

    Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
    I think people are greatly over stating how much Bird planned to change things. First, both Bird and Vogel said they only planned to play "a little faster" and "a little smaller". I don't think he envisioned CJ Miles at PF being an ideal situation, even if it is working OK at times. I believe they expected to reduce Roy's role, and that's really about it.

    Bird even said when DWest opted out that it forced things to move further in that direction than he had planned. IOW, he decided to blow it open and start a mini rebuild to prepare for Paul George Era II, but only after DWest opted out. He knew he wasn't going to turn around at that stage of the year and bring in an all-star PF like Horford which would basically be a DWest replacement to play with Hibbert. Just wasn't happening.

    What you see on the court isn't Bird's end game. If it were, he wouldn't have drafted Myles Turner who is a big guy for his age and a shot blocker without fantastic mobility.

    We are still going to be pretty big. Not as big and slow as Roy Hibbert. But BIG! Give Bird some time and be patient...smh.

    The team is mobile now. Bird just wanted to move the roster away from being a bunch of turtles out there. Mostly because Paul's game would not be able to grow if we kept playing that style.

    Comment


    • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

      I have tried my upmost to stay out of this debate lately because IMO all that can be said has been said and virtually nobody is going to change their minds. However when something new comes up that strikes me as, well shocking, I feel compelled to say something.

      I do NOT normally listen to the post game show on the radio because, well because that show is just not for me. But I had to stop and get gas so I left it on the channel and when I got back in the car Mark Montieth was on, I will listen to him when they have him on.

      As we all know this was one Pacers P.R. person (Eddie White) talking to another Pacers PR person (Mark Montieth) so anything they say is going to be basically what the Pacers want us to hear.

      That being said they were talking about the game and that is when Eddie White dropped the bomb by asking Montieth if getting rid of Roy Hibbert was addition by subtraction. This came out of nowhere as he wasn't being talked about and while the style of play was being discussed it really was more oriented towards the guards and wings.

      Montieth went on to instead of answering the question directly started talking about how Ian was really far more suited for this style of play and all of the advantages brought to the floor. But they he made and emphasized the point that Ian didn't care about getting touches. Whatever offense he got he was going to be happy with. Then it was implied that our former center was unhappy and had been unhappy about his role in the offense for several seasons.

      To me this was shocking, not from Montieth but from Eddie White. Basically he is a shill, which is fine that's his job but I don't look to him to get any objectivity or frankly in-sight. So him asking this very pointed question just struck me as odd.

      Montieth's reply at first was the basic politically correct thing you would expect but then when they talked about the offense and how Ian wouldn't disrupt the team because he was unhappy was pretty direct.

      Nothing new here really, just thought it was very odd to hear that in depth of a conversation between the two on the post game show.


      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

      Comment


      • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

        Originally posted by Peck View Post
        I have tried my upmost to stay out of this debate lately because IMO all that can be said has been said and virtually nobody is going to change their minds. However when something new comes up that strikes me as, well shocking, I feel compelled to say something.

        I do NOT normally listen to the post game show on the radio because, well because that show is just not for me. But I had to stop and get gas so I left it on the channel and when I got back in the car Mark Montieth was on, I will listen to him when they have him on.

        As we all know this was one Pacers P.R. person (Eddie White) talking to another Pacers PR person (Mark Montieth) so anything they say is going to be basically what the Pacers want us to hear.

        That being said they were talking about the game and that is when Eddie White dropped the bomb by asking Montieth if getting rid of Roy Hibbert was addition by subtraction. This came out of nowhere as he wasn't being talked about and while the style of play was being discussed it really was more oriented towards the guards and wings.

        Montieth went on to instead of answering the question directly started talking about how Ian was really far more suited for this style of play and all of the advantages brought to the floor. But they he made and emphasized the point that Ian didn't care about getting touches. Whatever offense he got he was going to be happy with. Then it was implied that our former center was unhappy and had been unhappy about his role in the offense for several seasons.

        To me this was shocking, not from Montieth but from Eddie White. Basically he is a shill, which is fine that's his job but I don't look to him to get any objectivity or frankly in-sight. So him asking this very pointed question just struck me as odd.

        Montieth's reply at first was the basic politically correct thing you would expect but then when they talked about the offense and how Ian wouldn't disrupt the team because he was unhappy was pretty direct.

        Nothing new here really, just thought it was very odd to hear that in depth of a conversation between the two on the post game show.
        Montieth has made that point about Hibbert in the past in a couple article's... but yeah, surprising it would be that direct between those two in the post game show.
        "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

        Comment


        • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

          Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
          I'm happy that the team is playing well right now but at 14 games into the season I'm not prepared to say that Bird made the right call in going in the direction he did. If we play the remainder of the entire season dominating teams the way we have in the past few games then show some playoff success then I'll have to say that Bird was right. The team is fun to watch right now but I'd still enjoy watching our last core play a more physical game than to watch a team put up a barrage of 3 pointers while starting CJ MIles at pf, that's just my preferred style of play. It's going to take a lot more than a few good games to convince me that small ball is the answer especially in the playoffs. You're right that we'll have to revisit Bird's decision in the coming months but now is not the time.
          Preferred style of play? Watching a boring team that can play defense but can't score can't score verses a team that can play defense and can light it up? Some people just have such a hard time letting go. Nobody can deny that the East is stronger now. This team will still be an East contender despite a stronger conference. The last core played in a pathetically weak conference save one Lebron lead team.

          Comment


          • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

            Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
            Every one of us has a preferred style. My preferred style was the one we had in 12-13. It's obvious that I didn't like the fact that Bird moved the team away from that style and his whole attitude over the summer only worsened my opinion of him. So, why would I trust him?

            I do trust Frank and the players, though. My faith on them has never been shaken. That's why I had the team winning a lot of games in the pre-season prediction thread.

            The players don't just pop up out of thin air though. They are brought here by Bird. If you trust the players, then you by definition are trusting Bird to some extent. OK, you don't like the style, but Bird has shown time and time again that he has the ability to put a good group of players together.

            Comment


            • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

              Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
              The players don't just pop up out of thin air though. They are brought here by Bird. If you trust the players, then you by definition are trusting Bird to some extent. OK, you don't like the style, but Bird has shown time and time again that he has the ability to put a good group of players together.
              True. I never said that Bird is an incapable GM. I simply said that I disagree with some of his actions during the last off-season.
              Originally posted by IrishPacer
              Empty vessels make the most noise.

              Comment


              • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                True. I never said that Bird is an incapable GM. I simply said that I disagree with some of his actions during the last off-season.
                Fair enough.

                Comment


                • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                  Originally posted by tadscout View Post
                  Montieth has made that point about Hibbert in the past in a couple article's... but yeah, surprising it would be that direct between those two in the post game show.
                  I think Hibbert being a disruption and complaining about touches has been pretty common knowledge for a couple years.
                  Danger Zone

                  Comment


                  • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                    Crazy how well we are playing. I'm also excited about the player acquired because of the Hibbert trade...

                    Comment


                    • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                      Originally posted by presto123 View Post
                      Preferred style of play? Watching a boring team that can play defense but can't score can't score verses a team that can play defense and can light it up? Some people just have such a hard time letting go. Nobody can deny that the East is stronger now. This team will still be an East contender despite a stronger conference. The last core played in a pathetically weak conference save one Lebron lead team.
                      How can stating a preference be wrong? I enjoy watching a grind it out defensive game much more than watching a team jack up 40 three's. For me the 90's Pacers taking on the Knicks was the ultimate and I enjoyed watching our prior core much more than watching the Warriors in the finals. Historically small ball teams that jack up a ton of three's with no inside game haven't done very well in the playoffs, we've had the one exception and that was last year. That's not to say that I'm not enjoying our current team at all but don't tell me what kind of basketball I'm supposed to prefer.
                      Last edited by Pacerized; 11-28-2015, 08:55 PM.
                      Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

                      Comment


                      • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                        Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
                        How can stating a preference be wrong? I enjoy watching a grind it out defensive game much more than watching a team jack up 40 three's. For me the 90's Pacers taking on the Knicks was the ultimate and I enjoyed watching our prior core much more than watching the Warriors in the finals. Historically small ball teams that jack up a ton of three's with no inside game haven't done very well in the playoffs, we've had the one exception and that was last year. That's not to say that I'm not enjoying our current team at all but don't tell me what kind of basketball I'm supposed to prefer.
                        I agree, but at this point I think you will be looking at reruns. I don't see the league switching back. Another Shaq might force it. But even if Hakeem returned I'm beginning to think this is the new normal. So by all means enjoy. Just don't expect to see it live.

                        Comment


                        • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                          Hibbert had 6 points and 6 rebounds in 30 minutes tonight. lol
                          Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

                          Comment


                          • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                            Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                            I agree, but at this point I think you will be looking at reruns. I don't see the league switching back. Another Shaq might force it. But even if Hakeem returned I'm beginning to think this is the new normal. So by all means enjoy. Just don't expect to see it live.
                            One team has won a title playing small 1 time. I don't see the trend toward wussy ball to last forever. All it takes is one team to dominate playing big with great wing defense. I could see the Wolves being the trend changer in just a few years. Right now we have a very special player in Curry that's forcing teams to adjust but at some point that special player will be a big man that just overpowers everyone as you say another Shaq, then teams will scurry to match up.
                            Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

                            Comment


                            • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                              Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
                              How can stating a preference be wrong? I enjoy watching a grind it out defensive game much more than watching a team jack up 40 three's. For me the 90's Pacers taking on the Knicks was the ultimate and I enjoyed watching our prior core much more than watching the Warriors in the finals. Historically small ball teams that jack up a ton of three's with no inside game haven't done very well in the playoffs, we've had the one exception and that was last year. That's not to say that I'm not enjoying our current team at all but don't tell me what kind of basketball I'm supposed to prefer.


                              I prefer a balanced team. One that can play offense AND defense. Not one that can play defense and rank 30th in offense. If you prefer that style, good luck on ever getting a championship. It's amazing how people over-rate that team.
                              Last edited by presto123; 11-29-2015, 02:57 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: All things Roy Hibbert for the next year or so....

                                Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
                                One team has won a title playing small 1 time. I don't see the trend toward wussy ball to last forever. All it takes is one team to dominate playing big with great wing defense. I could see the Wolves being the trend changer in just a few years. Right now we have a very special player in Curry that's forcing teams to adjust but at some point that special player will be a big man that just overpowers everyone as you say another Shaq, then teams will scurry to match up.
                                Miami was another and it's not so much small ball. It is about playing faster. I am not against having a big team but I am now opposed to having lumbering bigs. Regardless I don't think Hibbert is any contenders choice for a C.

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