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Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

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  • #1

    Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

    First the raw numbers, as of early on July 5th.

    Player............................................ .......salary for 2015-2016
    Paul George............................................ .......17,120,106
    George Hill.............................................. ......8,000,000
    C.J. Miles............................................. .........4,394,225
    Ian Mahimni........................................... .......4,000,000
    Solomon Hill.............................................. ....1,358,880
    Damjan Rudez............................................. ..1,149,500
    Myles Turner............................................ ......2,357,600 (this is 120% of the slot value of pick #11)
    Joe Young............................................. ........525,093
    XXXX roster place holder salary per rules...........525,093
    XXXX roster place holder salary per rules...........525,093

    Add all of that up, and you get 39,955,570

    Now, add in what we can guess are the starting salaries for Monta Ellis and Lavoy Allen as reported:

    Monta Ellis............................................. ........10,300,000 (an updated educated guess)
    Lavoy Allen............................................. .......3,825,000 (an updated educated guess)

    Add that up, and you get 53,080,750 for 10 players under contract once those guys are signed officially.

    Remember that we still have large cap holds of 18,000,000 on David West, and 9,300,000 on Luis Scola, and other cap holds on players likely to leave still on our books until they sign elsewhere or are "renounced" by us on July 9th.

    So, technically, we are still operating over the cap until David West signs at least.

    For now, I am still estimating the "cap" number to come in at 68,886,000, and a "Luxury tax" number ( a de-facto ceiling for Indiana) at 83,930,000.

    It would appear that my idea of trying to stay over the cap from a few days ago is clearly out the window now, unless you do something wacky and unexpected that we can't see yet. So, I guess we renounce all of those exceptions, get as far under as we can, and hope for the best. Not what I would have done, but the Pacers clearly aren't on the same brain track as I am.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    By the order of how we can maneuver things and play with the timing of these deals, we have slightly more room under the salary cap than you may realize. We have nearly 30 million dollars to work with before you start signing guys officially. The way to do this is to sign players currently on other teams, then sign Allen and perhaps Scola last.

    At this point, I think it makes sense to also do the following:


    1. Execute a sign and trade for David West if possible to whatever team he wants to go to. Put your pride and hurt feelings aside, and make a cold blooded business decision. I don't think it even matters what we bring back, as long as it is someone useful that can make our team. Some ideas of mine would be:

    A. San Antonio: try and acquire the rights to Livio Jean Charles, or Patty Mills, or Cory Joseph in a sign/trade

    B. LA Clippers: see if you can acquire Jamal Crawford, and then try and engage and move him to a 3rd team for someone younger and more useful to us.

    C. Cleveland: Try and acquire Brendan Haywood's contract for West (I have no idea why Cleveland even wants West, but apparently they do), then try and move Haywood for a better player more useful to us. Failing that, make Cleveland give us Rakeem Christmas or Cedi Osman

    D. Washington: Either engage them in a double sign/trade for Kevin Seraphin, or go ahead and take Nene from them, then try and move Nene to a 3rd team that wants to dump a long term contract.

    E. Once you gain some assets for West, try and engage the Nuggets on a trade for Kenneth Faried, who I think could be had from the Nuggets and who would fit here well, at least from an on court perspective. I would also inquire with Utah about Derrick Favors, and I would try and somehow pry Evan Fournier from Orlando, and Myles Leonard from Portland.

    F. Yes, I know those last 5 parts made me sound like Grimp.

    2. Try and involve yourself in somebody else's trade, and try and gain assets by helping other teams.

    3. Break our long standing team policy, and get involved with a restricted free agent somewhere if we think the player fits us long term. As long as we do this AFTER the Hibbert trade and before we do anything else, I see no reason why us having to wait 3 days would be a problem. I'm not a fan of Enos Kanter, but he still is a very young C with lots of offensive skill. With OKC being very tax averse, and having to think about trying to re-sign Kevin Durant next summer, I think we could potentially poach Kanter if we want to.

    4. Sign some cheaper free agents to 2 year deals, with only this year guaranteed. That could give us some extra potential trade leverage in February potentially. Unlikely, but it still might help us somehow gain an asset later.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It makes zero sense for a team like us to hoard cap space this summer, when next summer almost everyone will have space as well. THIS SUMMER is the time for us to spend, yet we are taking (for now) the exact opposite approach.

    I am assuming that the Pacers have some long term master plan on spending this extra money we have come up with. If we are simply cutting payroll so our ownership can build a bigger shopping mall, buy another luxury yacht, or simply roll around in a room full of cap savings cash like a modern day Scrooge McDuck, I am going to be seriously pissed off.

    Let's face it: we all WANT to believe our front office has some large, yet unseen master plan that will make us younger and better and keep us competitive, but to me it doesn't feel like that quite yet. Right now it looks like Bird and company are just lurching from one move to the next, with little to no thought on how one move might affect other moves in the future.

    Face it, you are hoping there is some sort of vision and long term master plan taking place here.....but are you sure? I am not.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For the record, in a vacuum I hate the Hibbert trade/salary dump, at least until I know more information.

    Here is why:

    1. I hate "selling low" on any player. We clearly sold low on Hibbert.
    2. I hate the timing. If you were going to do this, we should have either done it sooner, or waited til later. I don't see what the hurry was, since everyone just about worth signing is already gone as a free agent. Waiting it out a bit would have been more prudent I think.
    3. I hate that this move potentially puts more pressure and responsibility on Myles Turner than he is ready for. Like everybody, I like how the kid looked today in summer league, but let's get real.....summer league is nothing like playing against the NBA frontline studs he will see every night. I am very clearly on the "bring him along as slowly as you can train", and do not agree with those of you who want to throw him to the wolves right away.
    4. I hate that now, absent some great corresponding move that we can't see yet, that this move makes us a weaker team in the short term. I can't stand the thought of having to tell Paul George that, after working so hard to come back from such a horrific injury, that it appears as if we are taking a step back. If you guys think Hibbert is bad, wait until you see Ian Mahimni try and play 30 minutes a game.

    Here are some unanswered questions that I want to know after this trade:

    1. Were Paul George and George Hill consulted or informed about what was going on?

    2. Did Hibbert and/or his agents request a trade from Larry Bird after we drafted Turner, and we are doing them a solid by making this happen to Los Angeles, where he has spent all summer?

    3. Why does this negativity that our front office felt for Hibbert and vice versa seem so PERSONAL? It seems there are serious personality conflicts here, and I want to know what the deal is.

    4. Will Paul George or George Hill make any public comments about this deal, either for or against? Do we want them to?

    5. Why now? What was the hurry? We could have gotten this deal done a month from now it seems to me.....I don't see what the rush was to make it, unless there are auxiliary moves coming that we just can't see yet.

    6. Was Vogel for this trade, against it, or did he just go along with it because he has to? How much say and sway does he have over decisions like this? It feels like this move may have been done in spite of Frank to me, though that is just speculation on my part.

    7. Will this trade ruin Hibbert for good, or will it turn his career around? Both possibilities are possible.

    8. Is it possible that Hibbert just doesn't love basketball anymore? Is it possible that he might even retire after his contract is up, if he can't stay in Los Angeles? Maybe basketball isn't that important to him anymore, which is why Larry chose to get rid of him now.

    9. I wonder what Lakers fans are thinking tonight? I think they should be happy....but I bet they aren't.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I understand Hibbert's weaknesses, and I realize that something changed in his personality for whatever reason, and that the player that was once a premium NBA big man defensively probably wouldn't have been that for us.

    I can also see the scenario that his attitude was now toxic, and they didn't want that to infect the locker room with a young impressionable Turner coming in to take his place.

    But I don't want to hear ANY complaints from anyone when whoever we get to take his place gets hurts and misses games, or when our defense at the rim becomes a red carpet for quality opponents. Roy wasn't a good offensive player, obviously. But they guy when he was right was a warrior, a guy who played his guts out with limited natural ability and answered the bell every night. Do you understand how hard it must be for a guy with his limitations to manage to suit up every night, like he did for us? In fact, giving him periodic rest this year by having Turner as a legit 3rd string big man would have really helped him be better I think. Hibbert fought off his clumsiness and severe asthma and laid it on the line every night for us. Sometimes he was good, sometimes he was bad....but he was always on the floor, in the fight, playing as hard as he could.

    You can say that Roy wasn't tough mentally if you want. But you can't argue his physical toughness and work ethic while he was here. And you cant argue that he wasn't a critical core part to some of the best teams our franchise has ever had. We will miss his durability and rim protection for sure.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The most important news of the day potentially for Indiana and its fans isn't the Hibbert trade though. And it also isn't the fact that Myles Turner played his first game ever today for us.

    Potentially, the best news for us is that one of the very best "big man" coaches in the NBA was fired today by Portland. Kim Hughes, the veteran big man coach who is extremely highly respected all throughout the league was fired today by Portland over comments he made to WTHI Terre Haute a few days ago, when he admitted the obvious truth that LaMarcus Aldridge was going to leave them.

    Even though this was about as obvious and harmless of a statement as you can imagine, Portland chose to fire him anyway. Big mistake in my opinion.

    Hughes is a guy who gets very close to his players, and he was in Terre Haute because he was working with Myles Leonard this summer. Leonard was running a camp for kids in his hometown of nearby Robinson, Illinois.

    If we want one of the very best big man coaches to come in and develop Myles Turner, we have an opportunity now to hire one of the best in Kim Hughes. Apparently, the front office didn't think Hibbert developed well enough while here. If they want the next big man player with lots of potential to reach his maximum ceiling, hiring Hughes would be a great way to do it.

    Frank Vogel, Larry Bird, Kevin Pritchett....get it done. Get Hughes here, even if you have to get ownership to pony up a little extra cash to hire an extra coach we didn't plan on. If we don't hire Hughes, some other top organization will.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    More cap updates as events warrant.

    Tbird
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

    Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
    8. Is it possible that Hibbert just doesn't love basketball anymore? Is it possible that he might even retire after his contract is up, if he can't stay in Los Angeles? Maybe basketball isn't that important to him anymore, which is why Larry chose to get rid of him now.
    Not saying this means anything but your item 8 reminded me of this Scott Agness tweet from earlier today.


    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

      Good stuff on some accounts.. But there is no way we sign Monta with West/Scola cap holds..

      Remember Hibbert had opten in, Eating up any space we would have had.. Think those rights have been renounce,
      Which is why it was crucial to trade Hibbert.. Allow us to sign our guys back. Bird had the balls to gamble, And it's
      paying off..

      Sell low or high, Hibbert was done here. I don't think you remember just how bad his play dipped.. Dude was a statue on D,
      Always throwing his hands in the air and looking for help..

      And a cement truck on Offense.. Yes, I'll miss his exquisite 59 step pivot and him bricking a hook shot 14 feet out. Whatever Roy did good on D, He did equally if not worse on O.. It was bad................. I found myself pulling my hair. A lot of this,


      I loved Roy here.
      He was a fan a fav.. But things got so bad, That neither he or the pacers were having fun out there.. You don't pay someone 15 million to

      play 15/20 mins per game.. Remember Hibbert only played 25 MPG last year and only went over 30 Mins, 6 times. Frank didn't want him in late in the game..

      This break up is both for parties. Pacers go more up tempo and use Roy's salary to fill out the roster. Roy gets a new start.
      Remember the definition of insanity, Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

      1.5 years we tried after his mid season collapse.. Just didn't work out.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

        Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
        First the raw numbers, as of early on July 5th.
        It makes zero sense for a team like us to hoard cap space this summer, when next summer almost everyone will have space as well. THIS SUMMER is the time for us to spend, yet we are taking (for now) the exact opposite approach.

        I am assuming that the Pacers have some long term master plan on spending this extra money we have come up with. If we are simply cutting payroll so our ownership can build a bigger shopping mall, buy another luxury yacht, or simply roll around in a room full of cap savings cash like a modern day Scrooge McDuck, I am going to be seriously pissed off.

        Let's face it: we all WANT to believe our front office has some large, yet unseen master plan that will make us younger and better and keep us competitive, but to me it doesn't feel like that quite yet. Right now it looks like Bird and company are just lurching from one move to the next, with little to no thought on how one move might affect other moves in the future.

        Face it, you are hoping there is some sort of vision and long term master plan taking place here.....but are you sure? I am not.

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        For the record, in a vacuum I hate the Hibbert trade/salary dump, at least until I know more information.

        Here is why:

        1. I hate "selling low" on any player. We clearly sold low on Hibbert.
        2. I hate the timing. If you were going to do this, we should have either done it sooner, or waited til later. I don't see what the hurry was, since everyone just about worth signing is already gone as a free agent. Waiting it out a bit would have been more prudent I think.
        3. I hate that this move potentially puts more pressure and responsibility on Myles Turner than he is ready for. Like everybody, I like how the kid looked today in summer league, but let's get real.....summer league is nothing like playing against the NBA frontline studs he will see every night. I am very clearly on the "bring him along as slowly as you can train", and do not agree with those of you who want to throw him to the wolves right away.
        4. I hate that now, absent some great corresponding move that we can't see yet, that this move makes us a weaker team in the short term. I can't stand the thought of having to tell Paul George that, after working so hard to come back from such a horrific injury, that it appears as if we are taking a step back. If you guys think Hibbert is bad, wait until you see Ian Mahimni try and play 30 minutes a game.

        Here are some unanswered questions that I want to know after this trade:

        1. Were Paul George and George Hill consulted or informed about what was going on?

        2. Did Hibbert and/or his agents request a trade from Larry Bird after we drafted Turner, and we are doing them a solid by making this happen to Los Angeles, where he has spent all summer?

        3. Why does this negativity that our front office felt for Hibbert and vice versa seem so PERSONAL? It seems there are serious personality conflicts here, and I want to know what the deal is.

        4. Will Paul George or George Hill make any public comments about this deal, either for or against? Do we want them to?

        5. Why now? What was the hurry? We could have gotten this deal done a month from now it seems to me.....I don't see what the rush was to make it, unless there are auxiliary moves coming that we just can't see yet.

        6. Was Vogel for this trade, against it, or did he just go along with it because he has to? How much say and sway does he have over decisions like this? It feels like this move may have been done in spite of Frank to me, though that is just speculation on my part.

        7. Will this trade ruin Hibbert for good, or will it turn his career around? Both possibilities are possible.

        8. Is it possible that Hibbert just doesn't love basketball anymore? Is it possible that he might even retire after his contract is up, if he can't stay in Los Angeles? Maybe basketball isn't that important to him anymore, which is why Larry chose to get rid of him now.

        9. I wonder what Lakers fans are thinking tonight? I think they should be happy....but I bet they aren't.

        -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        I understand Hibbert's weaknesses, and I realize that something changed in his personality for whatever reason, and that the player that was once a premium NBA big man defensively probably wouldn't have been that for us.

        I can also see the scenario that his attitude was now toxic, and they didn't want that to infect the locker room with a young impressionable Turner coming in to take his place.

        But I don't want to hear ANY complaints from anyone when whoever we get to take his place gets hurts and misses games, or when our defense at the rim becomes a red carpet for quality opponents. Roy wasn't a good offensive player, obviously. But they guy when he was right was a warrior, a guy who played his guts out with limited natural ability and answered the bell every night. Do you understand how hard it must be for a guy with his limitations to manage to suit up every night, like he did for us? In fact, giving him periodic rest this year by having Turner as a legit 3rd string big man would have really helped him be better I think. Hibbert fought off his clumsiness and severe asthma and laid it on the line every night for us. Sometimes he was good, sometimes he was bad....but he was always on the floor, in the fight, playing as hard as he could.

        You can say that Roy wasn't tough mentally if you want. But you can't argue his physical toughness and work ethic while he was here. And you cant argue that he wasn't a critical core part to some of the best teams our franchise has ever had. We will miss his durability and rim protection for sure.

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        The most important news of the day potentially for Indiana and its fans isn't the Hibbert trade though. And it also isn't the fact that Myles Turner played his first game ever today for us.

        Potentially, the best news for us is that one of the very best "big man" coaches in the NBA was fired today by Portland. Kim Hughes, the veteran big man coach who is extremely highly respected all throughout the league was fired today by Portland over comments he made to WTHI Terre Haute a few days ago, when he admitted the obvious truth that LaMarcus Aldridge was going to leave them.

        Even though this was about as obvious and harmless of a statement as you can imagine, Portland chose to fire him anyway. Big mistake in my opinion.

        Hughes is a guy who gets very close to his players, and he was in Terre Haute because he was working with Myles Leonard this summer. Leonard was running a camp for kids in his hometown of nearby Robinson, Illinois.

        If we want one of the very best big man coaches to come in and develop Myles Turner, we have an opportunity now to hire one of the best in Kim Hughes. Apparently, the front office didn't think Hibbert developed well enough while here. If they want the next big man player with lots of potential to reach his maximum ceiling, hiring Hughes would be a great way to do it.

        Frank Vogel, Larry Bird, Kevin Pritchett....get it done. Get Hughes here, even if you have to get ownership to pony up a little extra cash to hire an extra coach we didn't plan on. If we don't hire Hughes, some other top organization will.

        -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        More cap updates as events warrant.

        Tbird
        I share all of your concerns Tbird. So far I don't see a vision for the short term that doesn't take a major step back from we would have had if we had simply stayed pat this year. Hibbert haters seem to love the idea of have a bunch of ball dominant wing players just jacking up shots and assume that our defense will just come naturally even if we have a front court by committee. Our defense was special it and no matter what we do we're taking a huge step back in that area. I don't see our offense picking it up enough to compensate for that and I don't even know if Vogel can coach an offense made up that way. I really fear that PG won't like these changes when he sees the result and if we strike out on free agency next year he'll want out.
        Bird lied to the fans about West and is way past due to give us a statement as to why he felt he had to do that and why he felt he had to move on from Hibbert. More importantly he owes the fans his vision for the short and long term future of this team and how long he thinks it will take to have a competitive team again. Right now all I see is dysfunctional actions from Bird and I've lost a lot of faith in him.

        I like some of your ideas but it's not like Denver is going to give us Faried for a L.A.'s second round draft pick our our cap space.
        Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

          To PICASSO:

          You are assuming that the first order of business has to be to OFFICIALLY sign Monta Ellis. It doesn't have to be first, you can arrange these deals in the official order you need to make them happen to maximize your flexibility.

          We should probably do the deals in this order:

          1. Hibbert trade
          2. Renounce or Sign/trade with West (if we can do it)....this will eliminate his cap hold either way.
          3. Sign Scola as cheap as possible or renounce him to get his money off the books.
          4. Sign Stuckey as cheap as possible or renounce him to get his money off the books.
          5. Sign Ellis with cap space.
          6. Sign anyone else who isn't a minimum contract with remaining cap space up 4 million or so under the cap (payroll at this point should add up to about 65 million give or take)
          7. Sign Allen to his deal.
          8. Use "Room Exception" of 2.8 million to go slightly over the cap
          9. Sign guys to minimum contracts.

          Payroll total SHOULD end up between 72,000,000 and 75,000,000 total, in my opinion.

          If we aren't trying to compete and care more about pinching pennies then we might end less than that, and even if we are trying to be competitive, and argument can be made to remain way below the cap by some amount so we can be flexible within the season.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

            Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
            To PICASSO:

            You are assuming that the first order of business has to be to OFFICIALLY sign Monta Ellis. It doesn't have to be first, you can arrange these deals in the official order you need to make them happen to maximize your flexibility.

            We should probably do the deals in this order:

            1. Hibbert trade
            2. Renounce or Sign/trade with West (if we can do it)....this will eliminate his cap hold either way.
            3. Sign Scola as cheap as possible or renounce him to get his money off the books.
            4. Sign Stuckey as cheap as possible or renounce him to get his money off the books.
            5. Sign Ellis with cap space.
            6. Sign anyone else who isn't a minimum contract with remaining cap space up 4 million or so under the cap (payroll at this point should add up to about 65 million give or take)
            7. Sign Allen to his deal.
            8. Use "Room Exception" of 2.8 million to go slightly over the cap
            9. Sign guys to minimum contracts.

            Payroll total SHOULD end up between 72,000,000 and 75,000,000 total, in my opinion.

            If we aren't trying to compete and care more about pinching pennies then we might end less than that, and even if we are trying to be competitive, and argument can be made to remain way below the cap by some amount so we can be flexible within the season.

            I forgot that Monta wasn't signed yet.. But you gotta figure that West cap hold was renounce. He just said no to Indy..
            The rest i agree with, Also, Think we'll go all in again..

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

              It makes sense to do the trade now. Very few teams have any cap-space remaining to take on a deal like this besides the Lakers and 76ers and the Sixers have three young bigs and have probably shown zero interest. The Lakers will need to begin filling in the multiple gaps in their roster immediately. They struck out on every FA big-men they went after and even lost the one player they wanted to retain, Ed Davis, in the process.

              The Pacers probably want to sign a couple more players and could use the extra cap-space they will have as a result of this trade. They'll probably get a couple 2nd round picks and foreign prospects from the Lakers as well. This is a good trade for both teams considering the factors envolved.

              Also, you can consider David West as renounced because the Pacers wouldn't have been able to offer Monta Ellis the contract they offered and have it cleared by the NBA without the cap space from renouncing David.
              Last edited by naptownmenace; 07-05-2015, 01:34 AM.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

                Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post
                It makes sense to do the trade now. Very few teams have any cap-space remaining to take on a deal like this besides the Lakers and 76ers and the Sixers have three young bigs and have probably shown zero interest. The Lakers will need to begin filling in the multiple gaps in their roster immediately. They struck out on every FA big-men they went after and even lost the one player they wanted to retain, Ed Davis, in the process.

                The Pacers probably want to sign a couple more players and could use the extra cap-space they will have as a result of this trade. They'll probably get a couple 2nd round picks and foreign prospects from the Lakers as well. This is a good trade for both teams considering the factors envolved.

                Also, you can consider David West as renounced because the Pacers wouldn't have been able to offer Monta Ellis the contract they offered and have it cleared by the NBA without the cap space from renouncing David.
                Not true necessarily. All we have is an agreement to sign Ellis, not the actual deal and contract itself. The NBA hasn't approved jack squat yet. Deals aren't official until they are.....well, official. Deals do NOT have to be officially done in the order we learn about them. I think many people don't realize that.

                For instance, we could do the Hibbert trade first, then sign Ellis, and then RE-SIGN WEST back, if we wanted to and if he had any interest. Obviously we know that isn't going to happen, but there isn't any reason why it legally couldn't, under the scenario I just gave you.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

                  Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
                  Not true necessarily. All we have is an agreement to sign Ellis, not the actual deal and contract itself. The NBA hasn't approved jack squat yet. Deals aren't official until they are.....well, official. Deals do NOT have to be officially done in the order we learn about them. I think many people don't realize that.

                  For instance, we could do the Hibbert trade first, then sign Ellis, and then RE-SIGN WEST back, if we wanted to and if he had any interest. Obviously we know that isn't going to happen, but there isn't any reason why it legally couldn't, under the scenario I just gave you.
                  I know about the 10 day moratorium. That's nothing new so I didn't mean that the league has made the deal official but I do believe that players sign some sort of offer sheet and the team submits it to the league for review. I don't think a team that is over the cap even has the ability to offer a contract to an opponent's FA so they must've informed the league of their intentions to renounce West and sign Monta Ellis to a 4-year 44 million deal with the new found cap space.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

                    Yeah, there is no way we still have David under our hold..
                    Plus the July 1st to 8th Is a grace period for
                    the NBA teams to resign their players(RFA, FA)..

                    We did the same with Portland a few years ago when they
                    threw Hibbo that mini Max. Took our sweet time to match,
                    And Portland was cash strapped, as they had a offer for Hibbo,
                    Counting against their salary(cap hold offer).

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

                      This trade could be better on the Pacers part. They could have gotten a protected 1st or did Kobe a favor and take Nance Jr. in the deal. Roy has a trade kicker that adds an extra 2.3 million to his salary and effects the Lakers salary cap. It could be possible that LA will have to add a player to the deal. I think when it comes to bigs Kanter is the best option right now. The realistic 2016 FAs includes Conley, Barnes, and Horford so free agency probably isn't the primary route. We almost have to think there is a plan because it would be an injustice to PG and the fans not to have one.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

                        The Pacers now have likely the most (or nearly the most) financial flexibility they have ever had at any point in franchise history, a position that I doubt anyone anywhere would have believed would be possible at the end of this past season.

                        Having this ammunition available for the remainder of the offseason could produce significant short term gains as well as maximizing the likelihood of being competitive with big spending markets when the values of all contracts skyrocket going forward.

                        I suspect a whole lot of unexpected activity will happen at the trade deadline this year, especially with lots of players turning into free agents to take full advantage of the upcoming bonanza.

                        The vision I would think is to be able to hold onto our core (preumably George, Hill, and possibly Ellis now) with the new highly inflated salaries, and to be a desirable destination for an athletic big or two next summer, while possibly getting a one year rental on somebody.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

                          Good stuff, Tbird. A couple of comments:

                          Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
                          I am assuming that the Pacers have some long term master plan on spending this extra money we have come up with. If we are simply cutting payroll so our ownership can build a bigger shopping mall, buy another luxury yacht, or simply roll around in a room full of cap savings cash like a modern day Scrooge McDuck, I am going to be seriously pissed off.
                          Agree.

                          Originally posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
                          2. I hate the timing. If you were going to do this, we should have either done it sooner, or waited til later. I don't see what the hurry was, since everyone just about worth signing is already gone as a free agent. Waiting it out a bit would have been more prudent I think.
                          This deal was only possible because the Lakers struck out. Nobody was taking Hibbert for cap when FA started. So earlier was out of the question.

                          As for doing it later - I agree that it would be nice if the Pacers have a spending plan in place before dumping Hibbert. I am assuming the backup plan is acquiring an expensive guy like David Lee who GSW has to dump to avoid the tax. Not my favorite deal but it addresses the spending concerns, and we might get an extra asset out of it.

                          It's very interesting that from the perspective of Laker fans, they just took on an expensive (and somewhat unwanted) contract without getting assets (in fact they are the ones who are paying) while the view from Pacer fans is that we just lost Hibbert for nothing. FWIW I think both teams are just being pragmatic. Pacers didn't want Hibbert anymore for whatever reason (in fact we apparently wanted him to opt out) so getting some assets is better than nothing; Lakers need to get some actual NBA players on the court, and paying Hibbert for one year doesn't hurt their FA plans for next year. It was a consolation prize sort of trade for both teams, and not really anything to be happy about IMO.

                          For Roy himself, I think this deal is great. He gets his money, plus the bonus from the trade kicker. He gets a change of scenery, but it happens to be in his offseason hangout. He's all primed for a contract year IMO. I wish Roy all the best.

                          Edit: Also agree about Hughes btw. I thought about it when the news came out. I don't know how well Popeye Jones is doing, but adding another experienced coach surely can't hurt.
                          Last edited by wintermute; 07-05-2015, 03:24 AM.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

                            Well said TBird. If the Thanks button wasn't binary, I'd still be clicking it.
                            Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Tbird topics: Salary cap update as of July 5th, 2015 (post Hibbert trade)......plus some speculation and thoughts

                              ^ On the money, Dallas, LA, or others in search of a big man wanted tht salary space open for DJ or Aldredge. They all knew that they could land Hibbert as a backup plan for about the same amount of $ w/o giving up players. It's basically a 1 year rental instead of a long term commitment. Word was the Pacers tried hard to move Roy during the draft, so the other teams knew he was basically a 1 year free agent for 15.8 mil. The Lakers just had him low on the want list.

                              Now for what we do, I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure the plan was West would be here & Roy wouldn't. Also I'm sure the Pacers were going to pitch hard for Ellis anyway. So we are basically improvising for West's replacement only. I don't think they had a plan nor seen that coming. I do think they knew Roy was out & hoped Ellis was in.

                              I'd personally try to land a PF & start Mahimi at C. I'd back him up with LaVoy. That makes us smaller as they desired.
                              I'm not really thrilled w/ maybe David Lee & maybe Scola as the PF combo. It wouldn't matter who started, lol.
                              The Pacers can't do allot w/o trades at this point. It's as the gentleman above said, kind of a move both teams needed to make, but not a great move for either.

                              Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
                              1 - 2, Tinsley's coming for you.
                              3 - 4, You're not a team no more.
                              5 - 6, He's gonna plead the 5th.
                              7 - 8, He's gonna stay out late.


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