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Thread: At what point in time does it....

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default At what point in time does it....

    become to soon to beleive something special is happening & is going to happen in the playoffs?

    Is it to soon right now to think that we are playing the best basketball in the entire NBA?

    Is it to soon to think that there is no team that wants us in the first round of the playoffs?

    Is it to much to think that we are not just beating bad teams or getting lucky, but that by a solid foundation of defense & team work that we really are this good?

    Is it to much to think that picking up Dale Davis is the single most significant transaction that we have had since Byron Scott came on board in 94?

    Is it wrong to believe that Anthony Johnson is the leagues most improved player in the second half of the season?

    Is it wrong to think that we have gone from a fluffy soft team to a team that is physical & bruising?

    Is it appropriate to point out that while kicking the crap out of the Cavs. that every single Pacer that played real min. (minus John Edwards) gave solid contributions?

    Is it wrong to point out that by everybody making the extra pass that we found the open man almost all night long?

    Is it wrong to think that if we played like we did last night vs. every team that no team would be safe against us?

    Have I gone way to far from the darkness?

    Ok, just because I haven't been in touch with my inner darkness lately I'll reach out to my brothers on the dark side.

    Here goes.

    Does anybody really hope that J.O. doesn't rush back & hangs out till we need a low post presence in the playoffs?

    Is anybody else enjoying Scott Pollard as much as I am over the past 5 games?

    Would it be wrong to point out that Jeff Foster is the best backup center in the NBA right now?

    Dale Davis is an all-star. Yeah I know it's not a question but I just thought I'd throw that out there because we all know I can't go one post without praising the True Warrior.

    Is it wrong to think that Stephen Jackson for Al Harrington was a good trade. (sorry Tim)

    Back to my darkside for a min.

    When one see's players like Pollard, Fred Jones, Croshere playing through pain & then think back about Reggie playing on bad ankles & knowing that Jermaine will be back in a couple of weeks. Doesn't one get sick at their stomach thinking about Jon Bender & how little he plays?

    Is it wrong to think that the playoffs might provide some more Miller magic?

    Is it really way to much to dream about the reaction that David Stern will get from the fans when he has to give the Larry O'Brian trophy to Herb Simon at the Conseco Fieldhouse?

    Ok, I've gone to far.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  2. #2

    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    I wonder what Jermaine will do to this team's chemistry.

  3. #3
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Arrrrrrrrgh...I can't help it...sorry...too far, you've gone too far. Not to.


    Is it wrong to think that Stephen Jackson for Al Harrington was a good trade. (sorry Tim)
    It's turning out to be a great trade.

  4. #4
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Let me add, I think that once the team got over the notion of Ron coming back this season, they could finally put 11/19 behind them and focus. And yes, I'm a little concerned what JO's return will do to the team's chemistry. I can't help but think of Webber's return to the Kings last year.

  5. #5
    Member skyfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Effort, teamwork and to a certain extent toughness is infectious.
    I love the way that DD makes everyone of his teammates better, by boxing out, swallowing boards and setting picks. I couldn't imagine a better C for the Pacers team.

    I think when JO rejoins the team it is important that they aim to get him shots that aren't low block postups. JO is primarily a finesse PF and is perfectly capable of being part of a motion offense and I think reducing the amount of fighting he has to do on the low block is a great idea. Run him off some high screens set by DD and see how his defenders can cope with that. Post offense is an important part of any NBA offense but if used too often it becomes very predictable.

  6. #6
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    become to soon to beleive something special is happening & is going to happen in the playoffs?

    Is it to soon right now to think that we are playing the best basketball in the entire NBA?

    Not too soon...

    Is it to soon to think that there is no team that wants us in the first round of the playoffs?

    Not too soon....

    Is it to much to think that we are not just beating bad teams or getting lucky, but that by a solid foundation of defense & team work that we really are this good?

    Not too much to think...

    Is it to much to think that picking up Dale Davis is the single most significant transaction that we have had since Byron Scott came on board in 94?

    Not too much to think...

    Is it wrong to believe that Anthony Johnson is the leagues most improved player in the second half of the season?

    It is not wrong...

    Is it wrong to think that we have gone from a fluffy soft team to a team that is physical & bruising?

    It is not wrong...

    Is it appropriate to point out that while kicking the crap out of the Cavs. that every single Pacer that played real min. (minus John Edwards) gave solid contributions?

    It is very appropriate...

    Is it wrong to point out that by everybody making the extra pass that we found the open man almost all night long?
    Passing... ball movement... movement without the ball... Did I die and go to basketball heaven?

    Is it wrong to think that if we played like we did last night vs. every team that no team would be safe against us?
    It is not wrong...

    Have I gone way to far from the darkness?
    Winning will do that.


    Ok, just because I haven't been in touch with my inner darkness lately I'll reach out to my brothers on the dark side.

    Here goes.

    Does anybody really hope that J.O. doesn't rush back & hangs out till we need a low post presence in the playoffs?

    Yo! Here! I see no reason to rush or push anything. Plus there is no reason to put JO into the position where he thinks he has to do it all or be pressured to contribute in a major way. Why not work him back in slowly? Why 'fix' what isn't broken until we have to?


    Is anybody else enjoying Scott Pollard as much as I am over the past 5 games?

    I've been happy with Scott Pollard the entire season and particularly with his heart and hustle he put on display during the 'short bench' games following 11/19. I wish that guy was here last year.



    Would it be wrong to point out that Jeff Foster is the best backup center in the NBA right now?
    I'll get back with you on that... but I will grant that having Jeff as a backup center means he isn't necessarily forced to play the other team's bigger, more talented starter as much... or he can play him after he's been worked some while Jeff is fresh off the bench.

    Dale Davis is an all-star. Yeah I know it's not a question but I just thought I'd throw that out there because we all know I can't go one post without praising the True Warrior.



    Is it wrong to think that Stephen Jackson for Al Harrington was a good trade. (sorry Tim)

    Contrary to the opinion some came away with after 11/19 calling Sjax a 'hothead' I think he's been a calming influence and a guy that seems to make a point of involving the other players (as in passing out 'thanks' and 'congrats'). Case in point, Jeff made a good play early in tonight's game and got to the line. DD's work set it up tho and I saw Sjax give Dale some props as Jeff went to the line.

    The lack of pouting is nice as well.


    Back to my darkside for a min.

    When one see's players like Pollard, Fred Jones, Croshere playing through pain & then think back about Reggie playing on bad ankles & knowing that Jermaine will be back in a couple of weeks. Doesn't one get sick at their stomach thinking about Jon Bender & how little he plays?

    My friend, who was at the game with me, turned and asked me (in all seriousness) "Anything new on Bender (his injury and potential return)?"

    I started laughing...
    He laughed as well...

    Nothing more needed said.


    Is it wrong to think that the playoffs might provide some more Miller magic?

    This 2005 team is Miller's team... I hope he and JO (and the coaching staff) have noticed and figured it out. An aggressive Reggie is better for everyone.

    Is it really way to much to dream about the reaction that David Stern will get from the fans when he has to give the Larry O'Brian trophy to Herb Simon at the Conseco Fieldhouse?

    Ok, I've gone to far.
    I'd say 'yes, that might be too much' except during the drive home I was thinking about (and envisioning) David Stern in Conseco being announced to a chorus of boos as he was introduced to hand out the hardware for a Pacer championship.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  7. #7
    Member skyfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    The only other player who has had such a night and day improvement in their game in the 2nd half of the season has been Vince Cater. Atleast AJ has done it for the right reasons.

    Given Al's tendinitis problems seem to be worsening this season, Jax for Al was a superb trade.

    The way the Pacers are toughing out close games is reminiscant of last season where they just willed themselves to victory many times, closing the opponent down. To be able to continue to do that without Ron and JO is a testament to Rick Carlisle's system and the whole roster. No doubt the Pacers have had a few lucky breaks, but thats the way the cookie crumbles and it was defensive toughness that put them in a situation to be able to take those big shots.

  8. #8
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    become to soon to beleive something special is happening & is going to happen in the playoffs?

    -Something special is happening, it may continue into the playoffs, but it won't beat Detroit or Miami.

    If we can continue to play this well with Jermaine in the lineup I may be singing a different tune.




    Is it to soon right now to think that we are playing the best basketball in the entire NBA?

    -Yes

    Is it to soon to think that there is no team that wants us in the first round of the playoffs?

    -No, we are the upset pick if we stay in the 6-8 seeds. The other teams have been sent reeling backwards, other than the Nets.

    Is it to much to think that we are not just beating bad teams or getting lucky, but that by a solid foundation of defense & team work that we really are this good?

    -We do have a solid foundation of defense and teamwork. I want to watch a bit more before I decide just how good our defense is.

    Is it to much to think that picking up Dale Davis is the single most significant transaction that we have had since Byron Scott came on board in 94?

    -Yes. Trading Dale for Jermaine is more important.

    Is it wrong to believe that Anthony Johnson is the leagues most improved player in the second half of the season?

    -Probably not. He has gone from dreadfully bad to somewhat good.

    Is it wrong to think that we have gone from a fluffy soft team to a team that is physical & bruising?

    -I don't think we were fluffy soft before, but we are physical and bruising now. We very rarely get outrebounded now.

    If there is anything I have learnt this season, it is how much I hate teams that can't rebound. We were like that for a good part of the season, and I nearly went insane.

    Is it appropriate to point out that while kicking the crap out of the Cavs. that every single Pacer that played real min. (minus John Edwards) gave solid contributions?

    -Sure

    Is it wrong to point out that by everybody making the extra pass that we found the open man almost all night long?

    -In my opinion, this is a result of having the same roster, more or less, for a while now (better chemistry).

    Is it wrong to think that if we played like we did last night vs. every team that no team would be safe against us?

    -I don't know.

    Have I gone way to far from the darkness?

    -No. Dale is reason enough to join the club. I'm going to the game Sunday, so I'm going to be on the uppitdy for a while too. (Section effing 3! Seats of a lifetime)

    Ok, just because I haven't been in touch with my inner darkness lately I'll reach out to my brothers on the dark side.

    Here goes.

    Does anybody really hope that J.O. doesn't rush back & hangs out till we need a low post presence in the playoffs?

    -I want Jermaine to be healthy a few games before the playoffs. But I don't want him back if he isn't healthy, ever.

    Is anybody else enjoying Scott Pollard as much as I am over the past 5 games?

    -I liked David better.

    Would it be wrong to point out that Jeff Foster is the best backup center in the NBA right now?

    -Would it be wrong to point out David is the best fourth string center?

    I may have to start rooting for Feisty to be traded, or my boy ain't ever going to see any playing time.

    Dale Davis is an all-star. Yeah I know it's not a question but I just thought I'd throw that out there because we all know I can't go one post without praising the True Warrior.

    Is it wrong to think that Stephen Jackson for Al Harrington was a good trade. (sorry Tim)

    -No, it was a great trade. Fairly even talent-wise, but Jackson's intangibles and the fact he is a SG make it great.

    Back to my darkside for a min.

    When one see's players like Pollard, Fred Jones, Croshere playing through pain & then think back about Reggie playing on bad ankles & knowing that Jermaine will be back in a couple of weeks. Doesn't one get sick at their stomach thinking about Jon Bender & how little he plays?

    -I have never cared for this arguement. If the man can't play he can't play.

    Is it wrong to think that the playoffs might provide some more Miller magic?

    -No. I am almost counting on it.

    Is it really way to much to dream about the reaction that David Stern will get from the fans when he has to give the Larry O'Brian trophy to Herb Simon at the Conseco Fieldhouse?

    -
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  9. #9
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    I'm in the strange position of having to cool Peck's and Bball's unbridled enthusiasm. You guys are just a little too excited about what is going on and it is making me nervous.

    As Reggie said the Pacers started playing playoff basketball a couple of weeks ago. My point is the Pacers really can't play any better, they can't turn it up a notch like other teams will.

    Right now the Pacers would beat the folowing teams in a seven game series. Cavs, Sixers, Magic without any problem. Beating the Wizards will depend on who they have healthy, if they have the team they have right now the Pacers will beat them. Beating the Celtics I thnk is a 50/50% proposition homecourt might be a deciding factor, and same with the Bulls. I am evaluating the pacers without J.O.

    Pistons and Heat are an entirely different story, the current Pacers team cannot beat either of those teams in a 7 game series, unless Shaq get hurt.

    On the other hand if J.O comes back I think the Pacers have a chance against the Pistons and Heat.

    Peck and Bball you are frightening me a little

  10. #10
    Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    With the current offense, JO should get tons of easy shots. That's got to make him pretty excited to be back, to be a part of this.
    You're caught up in the Internet / you think it's such a great asset / but you're wrong, wrong, wrong
    All that fiber optic gear / still cannot take away the fear / like an island song

    - Jimmy Buffett

  11. #11
    Member Harddrive7's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
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    With the current offense, JO should get tons of easy shots. That's got to make him pretty excited to be back, to be a part of this.


    Yeah but do we keep the same offense when he does get back?

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Like everyone, I want to see the Pacers compete in the playoffs. Having said that, everything is gravy right now in my mind. This has been an extraordinary year. It has shown the character and the true abilities of our players. It has shown their willingness to work within the game plan. It has shown we have an extraordinary coach and staff. It has shown we are in good hands replacing Reggie. And lastly, it has shown that Miller was no where near being washed up as many had felt.

    I said this right after the suspensions were handed down from the brawl. What this team has accomplished will long be remembered here.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

  13. #13
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    I'm very impressed with the way this team has played lately. However, I'm very concerned about how the team will play when JO returns. On paper, we should be much better, but there's no time for rust/chemistry changes in the playoffs. Each game is too important. Plus, my head still believes that heart can only take you so far.

    I'll be watching and rooting like hell, but I'm not quite ready to put on my just yet.

  14. #14
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Peck and Bball you are frightening me a little
    Why shouldn't they be excited? There's something for each of them: Dale is playing and JB isn't........
    PSN: MRat731 XBL: MRat0731

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    CA Pacer Fan A-Train's Avatar
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    Question Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by skyfire
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    No doubt the Pacers have had a few lucky breaks, but thats the way the cookie crumbles .....


    Name ONE lucky break! I dare ya!!!





    Oh, and my one word response to Peck's questions: No.

  16. #16
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Peck and Bball you are frightening me a little

    No ****. I had to check the calendar to confirm its not April 1.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  17. #17
    Member Harddrive7's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade
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    I'm very impressed with the way this team has played lately. However, I'm very concerned about how the team will play when JO returns. On paper, we should be much better, but there's no time for rust/chemistry changes in the playoffs. Each game is too important. Plus, my head still believes that heart can only take you so far.

    I'll be watching and rooting like hell, but I'm not quite ready to put on my just yet.

    Well I have said the same thing about heart winning a lot of games but hell, Detroit won a championship with it so...

  18. #18
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Is it to soon right now to think that we are playing the best basketball in the entire NBA?

    Would it be wrong to point out that Jeff Foster is the best backup center in the NBA right now?

    Is it really way to much to dream about the reaction that David Stern will get from the fans when he has to give the Larry O'Brian trophy to Herb Simon at the Conseco Fieldhouse?

    I wonder if Stern will come to a playoff game in Indy. I bet they send Granik instead. But if the Pacers get to the ECF or Finals, Stern will have to come. The booing of Stern as he hands the NBA championship trophy to the Pacers will be deafening and yet Pacer fans would be so happy who knows.

    _______________

    The best basketball in the NBA, I don't know about that. The Nuggets might have a strong argument.

    _______________

    Jeff the best backup center in the NBA? I can't argue with that. But I did notice something last night, Jeff seems stronger than he used to be. And the refs seem to call more fouls on him when he comes off the bench

  19. #19

    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I'm in the strange position of having to cool Peck's and Bball's unbridled enthusiasm. You guys are just a little too excited about what is going on and it is making me nervous.

    As Reggie said the Pacers started playing playoff basketball a couple of weeks ago. My point is the Pacers really can't play any better, they can't turn it up a notch like other teams will.

    Right now the Pacers would beat the folowing teams in a seven game series. Cavs, Sixers, Magic without any problem. Beating the Wizards will depend on who they have healthy, if they have the team they have right now the Pacers will beat them. Beating the Celtics I thnk is a 50/50% proposition homecourt might be a deciding factor, and same with the Bulls. I am evaluating the pacers without J.O.

    Pistons and Heat are an entirely different story, the current Pacers team cannot beat either of those teams in a 7 game series, unless Shaq get hurt.

    On the other hand if J.O comes back I think the Pacers have a chance against the Pistons and Heat.

    Peck and Bball you are frightening me a little


    Terrific summary of our current situation. I agree with all of your post, until the last line. Frightening? Nah. Amusing, yes.

  20. #20

    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Right now this team is going to live and die by the jump shot.

    Yes this team is playing great defense.

    Yes this team is playing a much better offense. Not only is it more fun to watch, it is much more effective.

    But... in this posters opinion we are woefully inadequate in our post scoring options. When our jump shots don't fall, we are going to struggle mightily.

    The old Pacers team that this reminds us of had Rik Smits. JO would be a nice upgrade at that position if we could bring him in and keep the same offensive fluidity flowing.

    If we could guarantee Reggie and Jax won't have any bad games in the playoffs, anyting can happen. But even in his prime Reggie has had some problems putting together the back to back efforts that guys like Magic, Bird, and Jordan could.

    One thing is for certain though... as bad as the East is anything can happen. The only team I really fear in the playoffs is Miami. I know we have the edge over them, but some of those wins were w/o Shaq and the last one was an OT victory at home.

    I'd much rather play the Pistons than the Heat. This is no disrespect to the Pistons, this is all about resepect for Shaq Diesel.

  21. #21
    CA Pacer Fan A-Train's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by skyfire
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    I love the way that DD makes everyone of his teammates better, by boxing out, swallowing boards and setting picks. I couldn't imagine a better C for the Pacers team.
    Too bad we didn't move Dale to the center position back in 2000 and allowed Antonio to be the starting PF. Smits, with his sore feet, could have come off the bench and everyone would have been happy. No one (AD that year) would have forced a trade, Bender never would have become a Pacer, and Croshere most likely wouldn't have had his breakout Finals performance and gotten his huge contract.

    All because Rik Smits just HAD to start.

    I find it interesting that the idea of Dale playing center was argued against so vehemently back in 2000, but it seemed to be the obvious choice when he came back this year. What changed?

  22. #22
    Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Train
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    I find it interesting that the idea of Dale playing center was argued against so vehemently back in 2000, but it seemed to be the obvious choice when he came back this year. What changed?
    Most of the true centers retired.
    You're caught up in the Internet / you think it's such a great asset / but you're wrong, wrong, wrong
    All that fiber optic gear / still cannot take away the fear / like an island song

    - Jimmy Buffett

  23. #23
    Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by Harddrive7
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    Yeah but do we keep the same offense when he does get back?
    I think we have to. Anything else would be very distruptive. Although we've proved we can handle distruptions OK. I also think that type of offense would be really good for JO in that it should help reduce the pounding he takes going one-on-one (or one-on-three) in the post.

    As for us living and dying by the jump shot... Well, we're getting open ones. I expect players in the pros to be able to make open jumpers.
    You're caught up in the Internet / you think it's such a great asset / but you're wrong, wrong, wrong
    All that fiber optic gear / still cannot take away the fear / like an island song

    - Jimmy Buffett

  24. #24
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    I was thinking about this - when JO returns, how long do the Pacers leave him in the sixth man role?

    He can play 36 mpg and finish, but leave the starters 'as-is' so Reggie can get on-track early.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  25. #25
    CA Pacer Fan A-Train's Avatar
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    Default Re: At what point in time does it....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
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    Most of the true centers retired.
    Which centers, particularly those in the East, would Dale have had more trouble with than Smits did?

    I remember Ewing and Mourning in the East, but I have to think Dale would have defended both of them as well as Rik ever could.

    I still think we would have been better off with the Davises at C/PF with Rik off the bench than we ended up being with Dale and Rik and Austin off the bench.

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