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Thread: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    Earlier today I sat down & wrote a long reply to the question about whether the Pacers were overachieving. For reasons beyond my control I had to leave before posting it & somebody else dumped it.

    However this is as good a place as any to put in to brief thoughts about that. You do NOT win this many games in a row/play this good for this long/get lucky or whatever you wanna call it without a basic foundation being there.

    Defense my friends. Defense the likes of which we have not seen played by this team since last year on the perimeter & post defense like we have not seen since 2000.

    Let's take a quick poll. 2-3 months ago if the Pacers were in a close game but were down & needed to catch up how many of us would beleive (& I mean truely believe) that we would do it?

    Now how many of you feel today that if we are down 3-6 points with a min. & a half to play we are still in the game?

    I won't lie, on the first question I was pretty much taking comfort that we were just close because of the seasons turmoils.

    Now I believe.

    God help me I believe. I am not hoping to make the playoffs now, I'm expecting to compete in the playoffs.

    Just like that team early in the season that filled in after the suspensions I could sink my teeth into them because I understood them, I recognized them & to be frank I just enjoyed them.

    I have that feeling everytime we tip off now. It's not just because we are winning (although that does help) it's because of how we are winning.

    Yes, we are depending way to much on jump shots. But you play the hand that is delt you.

    It's not our offense that is winning right now anyway. It's the suffocating defense that we are laying down on the floor. What I love about it is that the defense is contagous. When our starters go to the bench the reserves actually sometimes pick up the pace. We are physical. Teams do NOT push us around anymore & if they do play physical with us we don't have players on the floor standing around complaining to the refs. We just soldier through. We are rebounding. I don't know what it is since Dale has come on board but I bet very few teams have outrebounded us.

    This team has a very similar feel to the 93/94 team that I loved so much.

    Anthony Johnson = Haywood Workman
    Reggie Miller = Reggie Miller
    Stephen Jackson > Satan
    Dale Davis = Dale Davis
    Scott Pollard/Austin Croshere/Jeff Foster = Rik Smits

    I love this team. I am proud of this team. No matter how the season ends our heads should be held high because this team has done this state proud.

    That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.

    Onto the game.

    Yes, it's easy to set back & say N.Y. is a mess. But this same mess beat the crap out of us not to long ago. They played a differant Pacers team tonight & they were found wanting.

    Scott Pollard was just fabulous. He was everywhere. He put a body on the Knicks & his defense was troublesome for the Knicks. This was the player we all thought we were getting & I have no problem with him starting the rest of the year. Or I have no real problem with him coming off of the bench either but the guy deserves to play.

    Dale Davis

    Jax was out of his mind good. His drives were just breathtaking. I know a lot of you loved his three's & believe me when he hit them I loved them to. But his moves to the basket is what changed the game. His defense was decent as well. Thomas often out muscled him but Jax held his own for the most part.

    Eddie Gill was great on Marburry & helped stop some of his penatration. The fact that Stephon had to worry about # 32 helped as well because there were at least three times I saw that he altered his shot & missed layups that he normally would make. Sorry, slipped back into Dale fan mode for a min. Eddy actually passed the ball well for a change also.

    I know this next part is sacralige & God knows I am not happy to say this but has anybody really missed Jamaal Tinsley the last few games? Not because we don't need him, cause we do, but A.J. has just played that well. I've always been one of his bigger fans on here because I always thought for a backup p.g. he was almost perfect, but I never considered him starting material. Right now he is playing as well as almost any starting point guard as most in the N.B.A. I'm not saying he is the best, but he has been damn good & not just because he is hitting his shots (which really helps) but he has actually been running the offense very very well.

    Jeff Foster is one hell of a backup center. Starting next to Dale he was great as well, but next to J.O. I never liked him. But he is probably one of the (if not the) best backup centers in the NBA. Is it just my imagination or has he been playing more physical since Dale has arrived? Yea, yea I know I'm nuts so let's forget I asked that.

    There were really no goats on our team last night. James Jones had some foul trouble but honestly I thought they were bogus calls. I liked his aggresiveness on defense. Austin didn't do jack squat on offense but he did hit the boards fairly well & did a decent job of cutting off the lanes.

    Can't end without talking about Reggie.

    His last made basket in the Garden was from what? 25-30' out. Unreal.

    He was forcing it a little to much early on but eventually smoothed out as the game went on.

    Reggie in the Garden will always be a memory that I can take to my grave. I remember virtually every playoff series vs. them (yes even before 94) & Reggie certainly has had a large impact on these events.

    Hugging Spike at the end pretty much said it all.

    BTW, from reading what NJPacergirl said it sounds like it was mostly Pacers fans that were chanting R-E-G-G-I-E at the end.

    I don't know how to feel about that to be honest. Part of me wants that to be Pacers fans & then part of me wants that to be some Knicks fans as well.

    Although I will state again that I am deeply ashamed as a Pacers fan that when Pat Ewing was retiring that we did not at least give the man the standing ovation he desereved. Sadly most of the jackasses in the fieldhouse booed the man

    Either way there certainly is emotion in the air about N.Y. & Reggie, but to be honest just like Reggie said the day that Ewing left the true rivalry ended.

    Now it's home to the Cavs. tommorow.

    I'm reminded of a quote from that great philosopher "Conan the Barbarian".

    In the future no one will remember if we were good men or bad, all that they will remember is that few stood against many.

    Think about everything we have had to overcome this year (yes a lot of it brought on by ourselves but not all) & look at where we are.


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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    welcome back dude

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    I know NJ Pacer girl said that it was mostly Pacer fans chanting Reggie Reggie but from what I heard in the MSG network feed, it seemed to me that it would take a lot more than a few Pacers fans to be heard by people watching on TV. Also Walt Frazier on MSG network said that the last time that MSG crowd chanted an opposing team's players name was when Dr. J was playing his last game.

    It bought a tear to my eye when the PR guy introduced Reggie and the garden crowd cheered.

    Peck, I agree 100% with you on the comparison to the 1990's teams.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    Free Throw Shooting, Free Throw Shooting, Free Throw Shooting!!!!

    This is an undeniable and huge attribute to the Pacers success. At this point who on this team forces you to cringe when they go to the line?

    Alright I know, I still cringe when Dale is fouled, but clearly Bird must be attending practices forcing Dale to shoot at least 1 million foul shots a day.

    Lately I've been refering to Dale as Calvin Murphy.

    This team is filled with great foul shooters: Reg, Austin, Gill, Jackson, Johnson, Pollard (for a big guy), and hell at this point Dale.
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    [QUOTE=Peck]
    I know this next part is sacralige & God knows I am not happy to say this but has anybody really missed Jamaal Tinsley the last few games? Not because we don't need him, cause we do, but A.J. has just played that well. I've always been one of his bigger fans on here because I always thought for a backup p.g. he was almost perfect, but I never considered him starting material. Right now he is playing as well as almost any starting point guard as most in the N.B.A. I'm not saying he is the best, but he has been damn good & not just because he is hitting his shots (which really helps) but he has actually been running the offense very very well.

    He plays better with a motion offence.


    Think about everything we have had to overcome this year (yes a lot of it brought on by ourselves but not all) & look at where we are.

    I was just looking at the standings earlier this evening and we are only 2 games away from 3rd place in the East. (I didn't look at tie breakers) We are only 7 games behind Detroit who's in 2nd.

    Some preseason picks had us finishing third behind Miami and Detroit, and after all that has happened we could actually do that.

    I'm thinking that if we get JO back early in the playoffs and we just run plays for him at the end of games and stick with the motion, we could actually make the finals.

    What was it Larry Bird said? Something about 'making the finals and you have a chance.'

    I haven't given up on this season yet!


    PS. Good read as usual Peck! I think I look forward to your opinions on the Pacers more than anyone else. This board is special, but you and UB make it outstanding!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    It's amazing how this last stretch of 12 games or so has changed the look of this team. With Dale back, we have that toughness, that swagger that we missed when we lost Artest. But with Dale, we have the leadership of a mature veteran. This team is taking *confidence* with them into the playoffs. They know now that if they play well, they can beat anyone at anytime. Every time I think about what they've done it just blows me away. This team has heart. This is something special we are witnessing here. Carlisle should be CoY - there's no doubt in my mind. There no saying what this team might accomplish in the postseason.

    I trust that Carlisle and Bird are taking notes on how this team is winning without JO and that they will bring him back with this style of team play in mind.
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  7. #7
    ReggieMiller8325
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    Great Post Peck Nice to see you post.

  8. #8
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    However this is as good a place as any to put in to brief thoughts about that. You do NOT win this many games in a row/play this good for this long/get lucky or whatever you wanna call it without a basic foundation being there.

    Defense my friends. Defense the likes of which we have not seen played by this team since last year on the perimeter & post defense like we have not seen since 2000.

    Let's take a quick poll. 2-3 months ago if the Pacers were in a close game but were down & needed to catch up how many of us would beleive (& I mean truely believe) that we would do it?

    Now how many of you feel today that if we are down 3-6 points with a min. & a half to play we are still in the game?

    I won't lie, on the first question I was pretty much taking comfort that we were just close because of the seasons turmoils.

    Now I believe.

    God help me I believe. I am not hoping to make the playoffs now, I'm expecting to compete in the playoffs.

    Just like that team early in the season that filled in after the suspensions I could sink my teeth into them because I understood them, I recognized them & to be frank I just enjoyed them.

    I have that feeling everytime we tip off now. It's not just because we are winning (although that does help) it's because of how we are winning.

    Yes, we are depending way to much on jump shots. But you play the hand that is delt you.

    It's not our offense that is winning right now anyway. It's the suffocating defense that we are laying down on the floor. What I love about it is that the defense is contagous. When our starters go to the bench the reserves actually sometimes pick up the pace. We are physical. Teams do NOT push us around anymore & if they do play physical with us we don't have players on the floor standing around complaining to the refs. We just soldier through. We are rebounding. I don't know what it is since Dale has come on board but I bet very few teams have outrebounded us.

    This team has a very similar feel to the 93/94 team that I loved so much.

    Anthony Johnson = Haywood Workman
    Reggie Miller = Reggie Miller
    Stephen Jackson > Satan
    Dale Davis = Dale Davis
    Scott Pollard/Austin Croshere/Jeff Foster = Rik Smits

    I love this team. I am proud of this team. No matter how the season ends our heads should be held high because this team has done this state proud.

    That which does not kill us, makes us stronger.

    I could not agree anymoe than I do. The defense and rebounding is the difference right now. The whole team is playing defense as a team. The whole team is rebounding as a team. Credit whoever you want but the whole team is doing it as a team.

    Dale Davis deserves a lot of the credit, he has fit in perfectly. Of all the trades/transactions that took place in late Feb, the Pacers acquiring Dale has impacted the Pacers as much Walker has impacted the Celts and B. Davis has impacted the Warriors.

    Peck, I believe I heard the Pacers have only been outrebounded 4 times since Dale has been playing. In fact the pacers have dominated the boards in recent games. Last night they crushd the Knicks on the boards, I don't care what the final stats indicate.

    The question needs to be asked why has Dale made such a huge difference. Well he does not deserve all the credit, the other players deserve credit, but also don't underestimate the different style of offense. Generally the big people are closer to the basket in better position to get rebounds.

    OK, I'm just going to say it. Dale blocks out, J.O does not. That is a huge difference. By Dale blocking out it allows other Pacers players to get the rebounds even if Dale does not. Dale clears space, takes up space in the lane, J.O does not. Dale is a somewhat intimidating in the lane, J.O is not.

    You should have heard Mike Brown on the JMV show yesterday gush about Dale Davis. He talked about how much of a difference he's made on pick and roll defense, Mike Brown loves the guy.

  9. #9
    cariocapacer
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory
    I thought the PAcers won, not the Knicks. vbg

  10. #10

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    I actually watched a lot of coverage last night and I might have to change my stance...From where I was in the suite, it did seem like as the game went on, there was more cheering when the Pacers hit their shots. but I also want to believe that Knick fans were chanting and the media is running with that, so I'll go with it too!

    Even on my way home last night, I saw tons of Reggie jersey's which you don't see too often in New York. It was nice to see.

  11. #11
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    I wonder whether Spike will be in Indy on the 20th ........
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    JO doesn't know how to block out. I am very much hoping that Dale can teach him, because it is frustrating to watch JO not get more rebounds than he can. JO is a poor rebounder, and it is so refreshing to watch Dale and Jeff get rebounds like they are supposed to.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
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    Free Throw Shooting, Free Throw Shooting, Free Throw Shooting!!!!

    This is an undeniable and huge attribute to the Pacers success. At this point who on this team forces you to cringe when they go to the line?

    Alright I know, I still cringe when Dale is fouled, but clearly Bird must be attending practices forcing Dale to shoot at least 1 million foul shots a day.

    Lately I've been refering to Dale as Calvin Murphy.

    This team is filled with great foul shooters: Reg, Austin, Gill, Jackson, Johnson, Pollard (for a big guy), and hell at this point Dale.
    This is not real surprising to me that Dale hits his foul shots. Remember when the big debate was which Davis should we keep. While Tony kept whining that summer Dale hired a coach to teach him the fine art of making free throws. Spent alot of hours in Atlanta working on them and I remember rumors were flying down there Dale was being heavily pursued by the Hawks in trade talks but Donnie didn't bite.

  14. #14
    Member Doug's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    As usual, Peck hits the nail right on the head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Now I believe.

    God help me I believe. I am not hoping to make the playoffs now, I'm expecting to compete in the playoffs.
    I keep thinking I'm crazy for feeling this way. I *do* expect to compete, and even excel, in the playoffs. I do get that same feeling as I had in 93/94. That we are a buzzsaw just waiting to cut through anybody.

    In my mind, I'm thinking this has the makings of an new Hoosiers, that an NBA-championship is *not* out of the question. Again, the little voices say "you're crazy!". But stranger things have happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Is it just my imagination or has he [Jeff Foster] been playing more physical since Dale has arrived? Yea, yea I know I'm nuts so let's forget I asked that.
    Agree 100%. Daleness is contagious. Everybody seems to have caught it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
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    I keep thinking I'm crazy for feeling this way. I *do* expect to compete, and even excel, in the playoffs. I do get that same feeling as I had in 93/94. That we are a buzzsaw just waiting to cut through anybody.

    In my mind, I'm thinking this has the makings of a new Hoosiers, that an NBA-championship is *not* out of the question. Again, the little voices say "you're crazy!". But stranger things have happened.
    More importantly, do the players believe they can go all the way? It appears that they do. Although I'm still not getting my hopes up too high. For the time being, I'm just marveling at how these guys have picked themselves back up after all that has happened to them this season. If they had folded somewhere along the way, who could've really blamed them? And it's obvious Dale has been the shot in the arm this team needed.

  16. #16
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    Not sure what thread to put this in.

    I was watching NBA nation last night on ESPN2, the only good NBA related show on ESPN by the way, but Mark jackson was on and they were discussing whether Reggie would come back next season. Mark so no way. More interestingly, Mark said Reggie is not happy with the way a lot of te young guys in the NBA act and is tired of dealing with it.

    Interesting comments, there was no follow-up

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    He certainly seems rejuvinated by playing alongside AJ, DD, and Croshere, with only one semi-young player. Coincidence or not?
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  18. #18
    Fear my small avatar Gyron's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    Didn't an 8th seed (NY) make it to the finals just a few years ago......For a 5th or 6th seed to make it to the finals, it wouldn't be unheard of........

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    What we're doing right now just makes me think the 99-2000 team should not have been broken up in the first place all over again. It's enjoyable on one level and makes me a little angry on another level when really stop to think about it.

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  20. #20
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    Side note: I kept thinking to myself, what is Herb Williams doing playing for the pacers again. Seeing that throwback #32 brought back memories

  21. #21
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyron
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    Didn't an 8th seed (NY) make it to the finals just a few years ago......For a 5th or 6th seed to make it to the finals, it wouldn't be unheard of........

    Yes the Knicks were the 8th seed in 1999, which was the 50 game lockout shortened season.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Yes the Knicks were the 8th seed in 1999, which was the 50 game lockout shortened season.
    That pissed me off SO much...
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  23. #23
    3ptmiller
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Knicks victory

    yea i almost shed a tear at the end of the game, when they chanted "reg-gie! reg-gie! reg-gie!" and then he gave Spike Lee a big hug, they said the only time they chanted somebodys name in MSG was DR.J.. just amazing

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