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Thread: Its time...

  1. #1
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Its time...

    Al just looks lost playing with the starters and out of position at SF.

    Its time to start JB at SF and move Al back to his more familiar role of super-sub/ PF. I'm not proposing to increase JB's minutes significatnly above his current level - its when he get the minutes that matters to me.

    Right now both the starters and subs are out of sync. This problem was exagerated tonight against a team that is good but not great, but its still been an issue against the other inferior (Wizards, Jazz, Warriors, etc.) teams we've played lately.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  2. #2

    Default Re: Its time...

    Its time to start JB at SF and move Al back to his more familiar role of super-sub/ PF. I'm not proposing to increase JB's minutes significatnly above his current level - its when he get the minutes that matters to me.
    Your not the only one who thought of this...

    but this is also a FOR SURE way to **** Al off..

    if we do this, Al undoubtably asks for a trade

  3. #3
    Member SycamoreKen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time...

    Its time to start JB at SF and move Al back to his more familiar role of super-sub/ PF. I'm not proposing to increase JB's minutes significatnly above his current level - its when he get the minutes that matters to me.
    Your not the only one who thought of this...

    but this is also a FOR SURE way to **** Al off..

    if we do this, Al undoubtably asks for a trade
    If it is better for the team, then I could care less if Al cries about it. Some people on here seem to think Al's happiness should come before the success of the team. He need's to be willing to do what he needs to do to help get wins, not what strokes his ego.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Its time...

    If it is better for the team, then I could care less if Al cries about it. Some people on here seem to think Al's happiness should come before the success of the team. He need's to be willing to do what he needs to do to help get wins, not what strokes his ego.
    What you fail to see is that Al's happiness has a direct impact on the success of the team.

    While I do agree that his only concern should be how to help this team win, THIS IS THE REAL WORLD...things don't work like that, there are polotics involved here.

    Treating this with a black and white mindset will not work

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time...

    Its time to start JB at SF and move Al back to his more familiar role of super-sub/ PF. I'm not proposing to increase JB's minutes significatnly above his current level - its when he get the minutes that matters to me.
    Your not the only one who thought of this...
    As you'll recall, I've been saying this since Ron went down.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=931 and
    http://www.pacersdigest.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=990

    but this is also a FOR SURE way to **** Al off..

    if we do this, Al undoubtably asks for a trade
    Now as for Al:

    If the coaching staff thinks this is the best move *for the team* and Al bellyaches, then I've got no problem trading Al to the highest bidder at the next available opportunity. Its not like its his contract year or anything, he's getting paid and he'd still be second on the team in minutes until Ron returns.

    I've always liked Al but he's not a franchise player. If he's as selfish as you think, then he's expendable... and I've got no problem with taking a hardnosed approach with an expendable player.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  6. #6
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time...

    Al over the last 4 games has been as good as invisible.

    He played some defense in the first game Ron was out, the last 3 he abandoned that as well.
    He seems totally lost, his intensity most certainly lacking.

    Don't ask me why, but he has now had 4 games to show why he should be a starter and all he has shown is he shouldn't be.

    I know the rotations not only changed in personelle, also in position, Al now has to play SF (acccodring to him his natural position) instead of PF and JO plays less C where Cro takes over from Pollie and Jeff and JB from Al.

    This entire scheme of rotation changes hurt us badly, there is no synch in either line-up and except for JB no player has stood up to start producing.

    JO lacks the extra attention people pay to Al or Ron, and is now at least double teamed without consequences for the opponent (no one else on the team has stepped up except for Tins and JB to make a threat) .

    Jeff hustling and fouling yesterday was not exactly a contribution, Pollie made on but his scoring is so bad that is hurts, shame because he was the only one pulling offensive boards for us, putbacks would've been nice

    I agree to at least change the rotation to what they were and let JB start for Ron, play less minutes of course and let Al come from thebench again.
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  7. #7
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time...

    There is an easy solution to solve this problem. it won't **** off Al and it will help the team.

    They can start AL, so they don't **** him off by making him feel as though Bender has now passed him by, All you have to do is adjust the substitution patterns so that AL only plays with the starters the first 4 or 5 minutes of each half and maybe the end of the game, otherwise you can substitute AL 4 minutes into the game, bring Bender in and then bring AL back 4 or 5 minutes later when the reserves come in.

    Simple solution and I predict that the coaching staff will make this adjustment very soon.


    The key thing is to have AL on he floor with Freddie, AJ or Kenny I see that cooming maybe, Cro and either Bender or Pollard.

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    Default Re: Its time...

    If Al is so fragile of mind that the team has to worry about him getting upset when a shake up of the rotation is needed, then is he really an asset to the team?

    Other teams that have been more successful than the Pacers, like the Spurs, have moved guys in and out of the starting line up based onhow well they are playing. The need for a spark off the bench has led Ginobilli fom being a starter to a 6th man for the good of the team. He has stated he would rather be starting, but he still plays hard.

    I know it isn't a black and white issue, but one guy can't put the team in a bad postition because he gets bent out of shape when the need to do different things arrise.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Its time...

    Simple solution and I predict that the coaching staff will make this adjustment very soon.
    Who is in your crunch time unit?

  10. #10
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time...

    Simple solution and I predict that the coaching staff will make this adjustment very soon.
    Who is in your crunch time unit?
    Prior to Artest's injury AL was finishing most games, I would guess he was on the floor at crunch time close to 90% of the time, so I would keep that the same and yes that means Foster, J.O and AL along the front line

  11. #11

    Default Re: Its time...

    It is also time that Kenny Anderson moves in front of Anthony Johnson as the team's #2 PG. AJ's defense has fallen off the table and he is just not running the team well. He played a nice game against Golden State, but he has been horrible against the Hornets twice and has not been particularly good recently.

    Kenny has been waiting for a long time to get back into the rotation and now is the time. I would be willing to have AJ move to the backup SG spot to aid our outside shooting, but I believe it is time to have our best 2 PGs move to the top of the rotation.

  12. #12
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time...

    It is also time that Kenny Anderson moves in front of Anthony Johnson as the team's #2 PG. AJ's defense has fallen off the table and he is just not running the team well. He played a nice game against Golden State, but he has been horrible against the Hornets twice and has not been particularly good recently.
    He hasn't been the same since that ab strain. I'd like to see him go to the IL for a while to heal that thing.
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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time...

    As has already been mentioned, you do what's best for the team. If Al can't handle it, then we can ship him off. He can't play the 3 and will be second-fiddle at the 4 so long as JO is here. Al needs to accept that, or ask that we move him someplace else.

  14. #14
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time...

    As has already been mentioned, you do what's best for the team. If Al can't handle it, then we can ship him off. He can't play the 3 and will be second-fiddle at the 4 so long as JO is here. Al needs to accept that, or ask that we move him someplace else.
    I've found Al's recent comments about the "3" being his [best, preferred, long-term] position to be interesting. I don't think he's anywhere near Ron as a "3" and he's much better as a "4" although the "4" - "5" combination of Al and JO is too small.

    I think changes are brewing...
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  15. #15
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time...

    I have always wished AL was 3 inches taller. I know you can say that about any player, but with AL it really would make him a great player

    AL played very well Saturday night

  16. #16

    Default Re: Its time...

    As has already been mentioned, you do what's best for the team. If Al can't handle it, then we can ship him off. He can't play the 3 and will be second-fiddle at the 4 so long as JO is here. Al needs to accept that, or ask that we move him someplace else.

    I think that's going to happen anyway. Who else do we have to trade to make any significant upgrades in the off-season? I wouldn't be shocked if Ron were traded. I don't see it really happening, but it does bring up an interesting thought:

    Ron would certainly net us someone of more value than Al. If we could get a great center in return for Ron, would that be more valuable than keeping him if Bender continues to improve and stay healthy? Moreover, I think Ron would net more than just a good big man, we could probably get a good shooter as well.

    My only misgiving about this is that Ron brings a lot of heart and fire to the team. That would be incredibly difficult to replace.

    So the options are:

    —Maintain the status quo, keep the team intact, see if we continue to win and improve with the team the way it is.

    —Trade Al and package him with someone else for a solid big man and (possibly) a good shooter, ala Dampier and Claxton.

    —Trade Ron for a killer big man and (possibly) a serious outside threat.

    Thoughts?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Its time...

    Trading Ron = I worry about our defense

    Trading Al = I don't so much worry about our defense

    That and considering there are no "killer centers" to be had, I trade Al Harrington. Especially if it's for something similar to Damp and Claxton.

  18. #18
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Its time...

    -snip- Ron would certainly net us someone of more value than Al. If we could get a great center in return for Ron, would that be more valuable than keeping him if Bender continues to improve and stay healthy? Moreover, I think Ron would net more than just a good big man, we could probably get a good shooter as well.

    My only misgiving about this is that Ron brings a lot of heart and fire to the team. That would be incredibly difficult to replace.
    -snip-
    Thoughts?
    I've almost turned 180 degrees on this - a year ago I would have given Ron away because we already had Al. I guess the two reasons I've been reluctant to say "trade Al" are (1) I'll never be 100% convinced that Ron won't have another destructive meltdown, and (2) Al and JO seem to be such good friends.

    But now I'm reluctant to trade Ron because of his, as you said "heart and fire."
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  19. #19

    Default Re: Its time...

    As you can see, we are just not as good a team without Ron. In fact, we really need him. He brings energy and enthusiasm....and he's just so damn good too. I wouldn't trade him for anyone in the league, honestly.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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