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Thread: Bias Article Discussion

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    All I want to add to this thread is that I'm one of those that felt the Pistons should've been fined $5 million (or more) for tolerating the environment that turned into the free-for-all on that ill-fated night.

    There's really only one way the league could've achieved justice in that situation. Suspending John Greene for the rest of the season just wouldn't have done the trick for me. And Ben's punishment, IMO, was appropriate - I still believe he could not have forseen what would eventually happen between Ron and the fans. So the only option I've ever seen is a significant monetary fine to the organization - to be withheld from their share of television reveunes.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
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    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  2. #152
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    IMHO this could all be another symptom of the Piston organization getting off scot-free without even a media tongue-lashing from the league over 9/11.

    -Bball
    Whoops.

    Something else to blame Detroit on?

  3. #153
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Train
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    I fully realize that this doesn't translate to every Pistons fan, but it WAS a Piston "fan" who threw a cup at Artest. There were also a couple more "fans" who ran out onto the court with their fists raised wanting to fight as well as another "fan" who threw a chair. Not to mention all the "fans" who were throwing drinks and food at the Pacer players that fateful night.

    Yes, those fans don't represent every Piston fan, but we all know how effective it can be to punish the whole because of the actions of a few. When that happens, the whole tends to police those few much better than anyone else is able to.

    That's basically what happened to the Pacers this year.... the whole team was punished because of the actions of one or two players. It sucks, but that's the way it works.
    no, the entire pacers team didn't get suspended. EVERYONE was not directly punished. If it was John Edwards and James Jones that went into the stands, would all the conspiracy theories be happening? No. It just happened that the guys who got involved in the brawl were 3 of your 4 best players.

    Were they INdirectly punished? Of course. The Pacers as a team suffered because the players that got involved were GOOD. But thats different than DIRECTLY punishing each piston fan because of one non-confirmed fan that phoned in a threat.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  4. #154
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Whoops.

    Something else to blame Detroit on?
    Uhhh... whatever are you talking about...???

    -Bball
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  5. #155
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    All I want to add to this thread is that I'm one of those that felt the Pistons should've been fined $5 million (or more) for tolerating the environment that turned into the free-for-all on that ill-fated night.

    There's really only one way the league could've achieved justice in that situation. Suspending John Greene for the rest of the season just wouldn't have done the trick for me. And Ben's punishment, IMO, was appropriate - I still believe he could not have forseen what would eventually happen between Ron and the fans. So the only option I've ever seen is a significant monetary fine to the organization - to be withheld from their share of television reveunes.
    As I said before- if thats the case, then we're all in agreement. I was a big propnent of a fine of revenue.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  6. #156
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Yeah, apparently we're just THAT scared of a team we beat on their home floor the last 2 games.....

    Bball glances at the final score of the Pacers @ Detroit game this past weekend...

    -Bball
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  7. #157
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    Bball glances at the final score of the Pacers @ Detroit game this past weekend...

    -Bball
    *Kstat glances at the final score of the pistons/pacers game before this*

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  8. #158
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    *Kstat glances at the final score of the pistons/pacers game before this*

    *Bball glances at Kstat and wonders if he is missing the point...*

    *Bball then shrugs and puts a TV dinner in the microwave*

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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  9. #159
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt
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    *btown glances at the shiny aluminum foil next to his desk and wonders why people spend so much time fighting with so many beautiful shiny things in the world*
    See, only one side of aluminum foil is shiny though. Why can't they make 2-sided foil?

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    no, the entire pacers team didn't get suspended. EVERYONE was not directly punished. If it was John Edwards and James Jones that went into the stands, would all the conspiracy theories be happening? No. It just happened that the guys who got involved in the brawl were 3 of your 4 best players.

    I didn't say the entire team was suspended, but it can be argued that the entire team was unfairly punished due to an unreasonable suspension handed down by one person who is held accountable to no one but himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Were they INdirectly punished? Of course. The Pacers as a team suffered because the players that got involved were GOOD. But thats different than DIRECTLY punishing each piston fan because of one non-confirmed fan that phoned in a threat.
    Well, I wasn't talking about the bomb threat by itself. There was obviously more than one person (fan) involved in the fight on 11/19. There were dozens and dozens of fans who participated that night. So far, how many of those fans have been punished in any way? Four? Five?

    That's what I'm talking about.... how can THAT many people be involved in something like that and yet only a handful actually get punished?

    I think that's where the bitterness Reggie spoke to comes from. It seems as if the Pacers were up against hundreds of people that night, yet they all (but a few) walked away scot free. Meanwhile, our season was basically ruined because of one man's decision to suspend Artest for the whole season, including the playoffs.

    Props to you for standing up for your team and organization, though, Kstat. I know you're doing what you gotta do.


  11. #161
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Mind you, I'm FAR more critical of the pistons on my own board. But since there is already so much ciritism provided here, more often than not I feel I have to tell the other side of the story. That's really no different than some people here who are upset at ron and JO but are so sick of people piling on, that they are going to stand up for them.

    Thats not to say Im standing up for them simply out of obligation. I believe every word I said. Somebody had to stand up for them, and if not me, who?

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Mind you, I'm FAR more critical of the pistons on my own board. But since there is already so much ciritism provided here, more often than not I feel I have to tell the other side of the story.
    If you would try it more often, you would look a LOT more fair and much less homer-ish. I highly recommend it because when you pile on to one half of it you look really bad.

    That's really no different than some people here who are upset at ron and JO but are so sick of people piling on, that they are going to stand up for them.
    True, and fair. Next time you might bring that up at the BEGINNING of an 8 page thread than at the end. It would be a lot more effective.

    Thats not to say Im standing up for them simply out of obligation. I believe every word I said.
    Sad, really.

    Somebody had to stand up for them, and if not me, who?
    Actually, no one has to stand up for them. If ever there was a place they can be ripped to shreds, it's on a great Pacers forum.

  13. #163
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by LAPacer
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    From ditcionary.com
    fan is short for fanatic...

    fa∑nat∑ic
    A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.


    Have you ever seen the the movie with Dinero (The Fan)

    Plot Summary for
    The Fan (1996)

    Three-times MVP baseball player Bobby Rayburn joins San Fransisco Giants, and obsessive fan, whose profession is selling hunting knives, Gil Renard is excited over that. But Rayburn plays the worst season of his career and Renard tries to do everything to help him, but goes too far.


    My Point: FANS can be psycho's too.
    Excellent point. This is not as over the top as you would think. Let's just say the only reason I found this site was because of the IS forum and the only reason I visit IS and other various (Horshoe type forums was to monitor fan thoughts and behaviors toward a certain team. The next time you attend an open practice or game and someone seems like an odd duck sitting by himself he/she is probably part of a detail or a lunatic.

  14. #164
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    As I am staying out of the main points in this discussion, I would just like to know if UB still thinks McCosky is one of the best beat writers covering the NBA?

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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Fool
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    As I am staying out of the main points in this discussion, I would just like to know if UB still thinks McCosky is one of the best beat writers covering the NBA?


    Chris Mcosky is a butt kissing idiot. He shamelessly kisses the Pistons brass's *** while on TV and in his articles. On Friday the Pistons TV feed brought him for the latest on the situation. While giving an update, for no reason he gives props to Bill Lambeer saying Bill is DETROIT MEDIA.

    He has some thing with Reggie. I am sure about this because, about 6-7 years ago in his Sunday column he said,

    "Reggie Miller will never win a ring" and he went on about how Reggie is a punk for all his antics on the road. Obviously, I cannot post a link. I remember this because when the Pacers were in the Finals, if they won, I was going to call into a radio show (that he comes on every week) and ask for a public apology. Too bad, we did not win.

    Granted he is going to be proven right but I have never seen any team's beat writer predict whether players from other teams will or won't win a ring. I would venture to say there is probably some history between Reg and that reporter.

    He basically thinks he is the show and not just a reporter. When he is on radio, he is an egotistical fool.

    SO I WOULD NOT GIVE ANY CREDIBILTY TO WHAT HE SAYS IN THAT ARTICLE. He probably was ordered by Pistons brass to "PUT THE SPIN ON".

    Also, the BOMB could have been in places other than the Visiting locker room. It could have been in the arena some where else. Its not like the caller would tell exactly where it is. Was the whole arena swept thrice like the lockerrooms were. Why were the fans not evacuated. Forget Pacers / Pistons or players. Why were the fans not told anything or calmly evacuated. This bothers me to no extent.

    People get evacuated at work places for a freaking fire alarm. Forget basketball and everything. Four phone calls with bomb threats would scare the hell out of me.

    I am sure the fans would understand if the game was cancelled. It is just a game, so it could have been replayed or forfeited or whatever. Basically, the Pistons brass took a chance with reasonable knowledge but I personally would not when it involves 20000 people.

  16. #166
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    *Steals BTown's foil*
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Am I seeing things or did he just cut and paste his post from a few pages ago?

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Am I seeing things or did he just cut and paste his post from a few pages ago?

    Shhh, you aren't supposed to notice.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Am I seeing things or did he just cut and paste his post from a few pages ago?

    Yes, I did repost because it was appropriate as an answer to Fool's question and it felt good criticizing Chris Mcosky again.

    I alos thought it got lost in such a long thread becuase it is at the end of Page 6.

  20. #170
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    I guess I will follow suit.


    I would just like to know if UB still thinks McCosky is one of the best beat writers covering the NBA?

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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by grace
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    Against my better judgement I have Collin Cowheard on the radio now. He just got done doing his around the world thing. I can't remember who the reporter was from Michigan. They started out talking about Michigan State and then Collin brought up the bomb threat at the Palace. Collin asked the reporter if the bad rep the Detroit fans are getting is deserved. The reporter said yes. The reporter went on to say that the city of Detroit's new slogan should be, "You should be afraid of Detroit!"
    I saw this the other day and then work called me away (go figure) but then I saw someone else comment on this somewhere else today and I remembered it here.

    The reporter you "Herd" (rimshot, its the name of the show she was listening to) was none other than Oregon's own John Lund. This man came to Detroit last year from the great state of green bean growers and was the former producer for Cowherd when that enourmous prick (Cowherd) was in Portland. He basically ran a mini-The Herd in a morning slot for a Detroit station all year last year (its getting less Cowherdish recently) that included the "spanning the globe" bit and the horrendous mock of the snobby French laugh. Lund is absolutely terrible at his job, takes his opinions directly from national publications and major big city newspapers (the Washington Post, New York and LA Times and such) just like Cowherd, and is the least credible "local opinion" to site. But I guess thats what you get for listening to ESPN radio and especially that Cowherd fool. (Also, the other guy Cowherd uses for Detroit is Doug Karsch from the same station, its a poor station, who is less bad, though still bad, at his job but at least has been in Detroit for longer than a year.)

    Anyway, I just thought you might like to know. There are plenty of other local Detroit guys you can site bashing Detroit and most are better than this guy.

  22. #172
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Bravo, McCosky. Bravo for not being PC, and "telling it like it is."

    Best article I've read from him all season. Reggie was so out of line, SOMEBODY had to put him in his place.
    Kstat, what kills me about the whole of the events on 11/19 is the disproportionate punishment received by the Pacer players, organization and fans. Not only did 98% of the real, expensive, season and playoff outcome-altering punishment fall on the Pacers' side, but we constantly hear from the Detroit contingency (that received only 2% of the punishment) how unfair it is that Detroit is even being criticized (or, as McCosky puts it, we -- or Reggie -- are spewing "utter garbage").

    But it isn't utter garbage. Call it what you want, this episode provides real evidence that things aren't right in Detroit, and if the same thing happened in Indianapolis it would be just as wrong. Of course, when the Pistons have visited here this year, as at Christmas, they were heckled but never threatened.

    The Pacers -- the victims of the bomb threats, after all -- having the gall to complain about the bomb threats is not garbage. You may think the threats weren't serious, or were a hoax, or that the Pacers are too sensitive and are overreacting, but the fact remains in the 2 games they had in Detroit this year they were threatened.

    The league's threats against the Pacers for considering not playing, rather than putting the Pistons on notice that the organization will be held to account for security -- once again illustrates the problem felt uniquely by the Pacers. I know -- it would be unfair to sanction the Pistons merely on the basis of phone calls from unknown sources (but, c'mon, it was more likely a Piston fan than a Pacer fan), but for the league to lay the whole thing on the Pacers, and for Pistons' fans like you to agree that the Pacers' reaction was only so much garbage where you have not born the brunt of the sanctions, is a large part of the continuing acrimony.

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