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Hello everyone,

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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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  • Bias Article Discussion

    Maybe you'll like this one better.
    Miller leaves Palace with venom in voice

    Anger is misplaced as he rants about arena security and Detroit after game.

    By Chris McCosky / The Detroit News




    AUBURN HILLS -- So long, Reggie Miller, adios. Make sure you pick up all your used tissue and crying towels on your way out.

    I am done with Reggie Miller. I respect his game. He will go down as one of the game's greatest snipers, perhaps its best clutch shooter. His place among the elite players in NBA history is secure.

    But I am so done with his whining and petulance -- and the fake chip on his shoulder.

    I am sorry that my lasting image of him will be from Friday night, when he was standing in the locker room like a martyr, contending he and his team were somehow victims of some injustice.

    "We've been penalized so much this year, and our team, and nothing has ever happened to the Pistons or The Palace or even the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it, and the league ought to be ashamed of themselves to let security be as lax as it is around here.

    "We're always going to get the brunt of it as players, especially this year. David Stern has to take a hard look in the mirror every morning when he wakes up on his decision, the way he penalized us and the way he penalized the Pistons."

    OK, stop. That's enough. Let's not rewrite history. Plenty has happened to the Pistons and Detroit since the Nov. 19 brawl, and little of it has been good.

    But we don't feel compelled to moan and show our scars to anyone who will look or listen.

    True, the Pistons did not suffer as much as the Pacers. But guess what? The Pistons didn't go into the stands and attack fans. You can point out all the other incidents that led up to it -- Artest's hard foul on Ben Wallace, Wallace's shoving Ron Artest, Artest's lying on the scorer's table, the fan's throwing the cup -- but there was no brawl until Artest ran into the stands.

    Everything that happened afterward -- as sickening and inexcusable as it might have been -- was sparked by Artest's action.

    Artest, Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal pummeled paying customers. Thus, their penalties were stiffer than those imposed on the Pistons players.

    Sorry, Reggie, you do not get to play the victim card here. You and your team are paying the consequences of your own actions.

    As for the security at The Palace, it was far from lax. That building was sealed tightly enough for a presidential visit. Bomb-sniffing dogs swept the entire building twice, as a matter of course, before some fool called in the bogus threat. Security personnel were posted in front of both locker rooms all day long -- before there was a bomb threat.

    They repeated the drill after the threat was made.

    There was no bomb, no threat. Nobody, except the Pacers briefly, was evacuated.

    Yet, it took an intervention from the league office to get the Pacers onto the court.

    Had they come back immediately after police sounded the all-clear, this would have been a five-paragraph, one-day story. Now it's national news.

    And guess what the news is -- Detroit is a dangerous city and The Palace is an unruly venue.

    That is utter garbage, of course.

    At least one Pacer seems to understand, and believe it or not, it's Jermaine O'Neal, who obliged autograph seekers and slapped hands with fans in the same tunnel in which he was doused with beer in November.

    "We are human, we do live regular lives. Something as serious as a bomb threat is no joking matter whatsoever," he said. "For somebody to do that, I think that is extremely unfair, not only to our team, but it's unfair to the city. There's a lot of good fans out here in Detroit. For some stupid person to call and do that, the people in Detroit should be mad at that person."

    Here's a final snapshot by which to remember Miller: As Miller was standing in front of the Pacers bench, a fan yelled, sincerely, "Reggie, thanks for all the memories, man."

    Miller smirked and didn't acknowledge the fan.

    Adios, Reg.


    On the farm


    The NBA is moving closer to commissioner David Stern's dream of a farm system.

    Last week, the NBDL (the NBA's development league) expanded by four teams. Austin and Fort Worth, Texas; Tulsa, Okla.; and Albuquerque, N.M., were purchased by a group headed by David Kahn.

    There will be 10 teams in the NBDL next season. Five are independently owned and five are owned by the NBA. Stern has said he wants the league ultimately to have 15 teams, each affiliated with two NBA teams.

    "Since Mr. Stern and I began speaking about this last spring, this was his vision," said Kahn, who was the Pacers' general manager from 1998-2002. "I share his vision that we need it and I hope it happens."

    Although NBA teams would not have to supply all the players for minor-league affiliates (there would be unrestricted free agents), they would be able to send young players to these teams and maintain their contractual rights.


    Sound bytes


    • The Knicks' Tim Thomas, after defeating the Celtics and trash-talking Paul Pierce last week: "It's not even MTV, and he got punk'd."

    • Kevin McHale, Timberwolves coach and president, on superstitions: "I'm real superstitious: If you go out and outwork the other team, you have a good chance of beating them."


    Material from personal interviews, other beat writers and Detroit News wire services was used in this report. You can reach Chris McCosky at (313) 222-1489 or cmccosky@detnews.com.


    Chris McCosky's quick hits


    • Yao Ming needs to take his act to Comedy Central. His Shaquille O'Neal shtick is hilarious. Hey, Yao, we understand that you learn something new every time you face Shaq. "Yes, but the tuition is a bit too expensive." Bam. Yao, what is it you would most like to learn from him? "What I really want to know is when he's going to retire." Bam-bam. Imagine how funny he'll be when he speaks English even better than he does now.

    • The player is always the last to know when he's done. Alonzo Mourning has essentially turned himself into the Darko Milicic of the Miami Heat. The crowd chants for him, and he plays only late in blowout games. He's their human victory cigar. He might get a few more minutes now that Christian Laettner is out because of an injury, but he's basically on the team for sentimental reasons. The only people who don't seem to realize that are Mourning and Shaquille O'Neal. Said Shaq: "Now you have the No. 1 and No. 2 centers in the game on the same team." Huh? Maybe in 1996 or 1997 they were the best centers in the game (though I don't think so), but not now.

    • Ah, the Minnesota Timberwolves, Team Harmony of the NBA. Despite fighting for their playoff lives, they still can't get along with one another. Players and coaches had to separate Michael Olowokandi and Sam Cassell during a practice Thursday. Harsh words from Cassell resulted in Olowokandi's going after him. The two were separated and things seemed to calm down, until Olowokandi went back at Cassell. No punches were thrown, but it's clear the Timberwolves will have to blow up their roster and start anew.

    • Two NBA coaches, two vastly different takes on Reggie Miller's imminent retirement. After Miller scored 39 points against his team March 18, Lakers coach Frank Hamblen said, "When you can score your age in this league, it's not time to quit." Spurs coach Gregg Popovich begged to differ. "Reggie is somebody that every player in this league could learn from, especially on how the game should be played and how you should prepare," Popovich said. "He is one of the all-time greats. On the selfish side, I hope he retires and stays there."

    • Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy apparently is done with the cute Coaching Van Gundy Brothers stories. "If I see one more story about us I'm going to puke," he said, referring to stories about him and his brother Stan, who coaches the Heat. "Me and my brother. Me and my mom. Mom listens with the sound, my dad doesn't. Who cares? Really, I'm so sick of it. You guys just won't let it go. I mean, gosh. It's not a novelty anymore. It's painful to read those stories. 'And when Jeff was 3....' I mean, my goodness." When told that Stan was far more chatty on the topic, Jeff said, "He's in a better mood. He's 52-16. Let me win 12 in a row, let me go 41-9 over a stretch of games, you can ask me whatever you want about anything you want, you'll get a positive remark."

    • Want to know the best new nickname in the league? Brent Barry of the Spurs has begun to call Manu Ginobili, a man who never shied away from a floor burn, El Contusion.

    • So much for Baron Davis' saving the Warriors. They are 7-8 since he joined them, and coach Mike Montgomery is getting a little tired of hearing about the Baron Davis era. "We're going to have Baron building us a new arena pretty soon," Montgomery barked after getting one too many questions about Davis' impact. "Geez, Andris (Biedrins) is 6-11. That must be 'cause Baron is here."

    • So usually mild-mannered forward Mike Dunleavy of the Warriors goes off on an official and earns an ejection and suddenly he's everybody's hero. Wow. After picking up four quick and questionable fouls trying to guard Dirk Nowitzki last week, Dunleavy went after referee Bill Spooner, screaming and spitting (inadvertently) in Spooner's face. Spooner tossed him immediately, and the fans went bonkers. They gave Dunleavy a standing ovation, and he played up to it by barking as he walked off the court, ripping off his jersey and throwing it into the crowd. "I got a kick out of it," Warriors president Chris Mullin said. "The way the crowd reacted I felt was pretty revealing. I think they were waiting for that." But Mullin, who has thrown a few tantrums in his day, wasn't in favor of the jersey toss. "I've been in that situation before. I've done similar things. But I didn't take my shirt off," he said. "With my body, I'm not taking my shirt off." • You can always tell the men from the boys in this league by the way they react in the heat of the moment. For example, witness the reaction of the Raptors' Rafer Alston to an encounter with the Cavaliers' Ira Newble, the pride of Southfield. Newble stopped a layup attempt with a hard foul on Alston, who charged after Newble, acting as if he wanted to fight him. "I made a basketball play," Newble said. "He got sensitive and tried to take (it) somewhere that in his heart he didn't really want to go." Well put. "He was running his mouth," Newble said. "Some guys just talk a lot and try to put on a show out there. In an NBA game you can act like you're going to do something, but you know people are going to be there to stop you."

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    http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/...D04-130270.htm

  • #2
    Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    I'm not even going to begin to break down that guy's article; he's biased in every way, shape, and form.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

      One criticism from the Detroit writer I can agree with...

      Reggie does not go out of his way - or even try a little - to be fan friendly at the arena. I have noticed this as I have had positive experiences with other Pacers and Reggie always runs in and out of the arena like the fans are a nuisance. And no, this is not new this year. He has always been that way.

      I am sure I will tick people off saying this - I love Reggie - but he just does not try with the fans at the arena. I know he is great in the community - but for those of us who only see the Pacers on the road, he is not what I would call a great ambassador for the Pacers. He knows we are fans in enemy territory - it would not kill him to try a little.
      Heywoode says... work hard man.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

        And guess what the news is -- Detroit is a dangerous city and The Palace is an unruly venue. That is utter garbage, of course.
        Easily refuted by the FOUR bomb threat calls made that night. Perhaps something really needs to be blown up before this guy understands.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

          If you pay attention to what JO said, it's not very complimentary."For somebody to do that, I think that is extremely unfair, not only to our team, but it's unfair to the city. " I'm thinking Ron Artest...and it is very unfair to the team to suspend him all these games...that author needs to get the Roy D. Mercer treatment ( see www.roydmercer.com )...i just can't stand biased articles...I even get mad at local news for that sometimes...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

            You can always tell the men from the boys in this league by the way they react in the heat of the moment. For example, witness the reaction of the Raptors' Rafer Alston to an encounter with the Cavaliers' Ira Newble, the pride of Southfield. Newble stopped a layup attempt with a hard foul on Alston, who charged after Newble, acting as if he wanted to fight him.


            Oh goodness - I need to catch my breath.

            Can anyone say Ben Wallace?

            Besides, I was at that Raptors/Cavs game, and what Rafer did was not even comparable to what Ben did on 11/19, or 3/25 for that matter. This author says that he "charged after Newble, acting as if he wanted to fight him". Uhhh...nope, sorry buddy. Rafer turned around and said something to him and they were split up.

            But of course, when Ben Wallace does his stuff he is so 'manly' and 'passionate' right?

            What a tool.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

              I'd assume the "comment on this story" link's gonna get a lot of use?

              Gotta admit, a Detroit writer using that Alston-Newble altercation in that way is pretty hilarious after the Wallace reactcion to Artest last November.
              The poster formerly known as Rimfire

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

                Here is an article that suggests maybe the Pacers were staging a silent protest. The amazing thing to me is Friday's game did nothing to lesson the bitterness most Pacers fans have. Who am I bitter towards, just about everyone. That is why there is a part of me that wishes the Pacers got on that bus and never turned around, just kept going. I know that would not have been the right thing to do, I know it would have caused more problems, but that is how a small part of me feels

                http://chicagosports.chicagotribune....ck=3&cset=true

                Bomb threat targets Pacers
                Causes long delay of 1st visit to Pistons' arena since big brawl


                By Sam Smith, Tribune pro basketball reporter. Tribune news services contributed

                March 26, 2005


                So much for closure.

                The mess of an NBA season for the Detroit Pistons and the Indiana Pacers continued Friday when the first meeting in Auburn Hills, Mich., between the teams since the infamous Nov. 19 brawl was delayed almost 90 minutes while police investigated a bomb threat directed at the Pacers.




                The game finally started at about 9:30 (EST), and the Pacers won 94-81. There were no incidents during the game. The Pacers play the Bulls at the United Center on Saturday.

                The bomb threat, according to police, was called in to the Palace of Auburn Hills switchboard about 45 minutes before the game was to begin. The teams, and the NBA, had hoped a peaceful meeting would give everyone a chance to move on from the notorious incident that decimated the Pacers and left a stain on the reputations of the city of Detroit and the NBA.

                Instead, the Pacers decided to board their team bus and leave the arena while a search with bomb-sniffing dogs was completed. The bus drove into the arena parking lot and back to the loading dock.

                Even though the Pistons and the NBA had tried to downplay the Pacers' first return to Auburn Hills, playoff-level security was in place and police said they used bomb-sniffing dogs earlier in the day to inspect the Pacers' locker room, a regular procedure for high-profile events, and police guarded the locker room for the rest of the day.

                "The game did not start on time because we had to make sure everyone involved was at a comfort level that would allow them to start this game," Auburn Hills Police Chief Doreen Olko told the Associated Press. "That's what took so long."

                Fans were never told about the bomb threat and stayed in their seats. The Michigan State-Duke NCAA game was shown on the overhead scoreboard screen.

                Auburn Hills police emphasized they believed there was no serious risk, but the Pacers insisted on leaving, they said.

                There remain hard feelings between the franchises over the brawl. The Pacers have felt victimized because Ron Artest was suspended for the season and Stephen Jackson for 30 games. Jermaine O'Neal, who was at Friday's game though injured, was reinstated on Christmas Day after an arbitrator reduced his suspension to 15 games. The only Piston suspended was Ben Wallace, for six games.

                The Pacers have maintained Wallace caused the melee by inciting Artest late in a game already decided in the Pacers' favor. The Pacers believe the game was a statement of their superiority over Detroit, yet it severely damaged their season. Still, the Pacers remain in playoff contention and are in position to open the playoffs against the Pistons.

                Just this week, NBA Commissioner David Stern told the Indianapolis Star that despite having second thoughts he decided not to reinstate Artest.

                "At a certain point in the last week or two we decided the most important thing here is Ron's return to the NBA, and the best path for that is through a [counseling] program in which he's now engaged," Stern said.

                Artest is with Tri-Star Sports and Entertainment Group in Nashville, a life management company.Artest now practices and travels with the team but isn't allowed in NBA arenas.

                "It has been personally very painful for me because I understand their view and their feelings on it," Stern said, acknowledging the Pacers' bitter feelings and personal appeals to him this season for fairness. "On the basis of all the reports and my visit with Ron, I truly believe [Artest will be a changed man]. I would like to make sure that comes to pass, rather than rushing him back into the heat of battle. I'm at peace with the decision."

                Perhaps the long delay, which the police suggested was unwarranted, was a silent Pacers' protest of what they believe was bias against their team that helped destroy their season and potentially cost them millions of dollars. It doesn't seem this rivalry will end for some time.


                Copyright © 2005, The Chicago Tribune

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

                  "It has been personally very painful for me because I understand their view and their feelings on it," Stern said


                  Whatever you ****er
                  Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

                    Originally posted by Unclebuck
                    Maybe you'll like this one better.
                    Miller leaves Palace with venom in voice

                    Anger is misplaced as he rants about arena security and Detroit after game.

                    By Chris McCosky / The Detroit News




                    AUBURN HILLS -- So long, Reggie Miller, adios. Make sure you pick up all your used tissue and crying towels on your way out.

                    I am done with Reggie Miller. I respect his game. He will go down as one of the game's greatest snipers, perhaps its best clutch shooter. His place among the elite players in NBA history is secure.

                    But I am so done with his whining and petulance -- and the fake chip on his shoulder.

                    I am sorry that my lasting image of him will be from Friday night, when he was standing in the locker room like a martyr, contending he and his team were somehow victims of some injustice.

                    "We've been penalized so much this year, and our team, and nothing has ever happened to the Pistons or The Palace or even the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it, and the league ought to be ashamed of themselves to let security be as lax as it is around here.

                    "We're always going to get the brunt of it as players, especially this year. David Stern has to take a hard look in the mirror every morning when he wakes up on his decision, the way he penalized us and the way he penalized the Pistons."

                    OK, stop. That's enough. Let's not rewrite history. Plenty has happened to the Pistons and Detroit since the Nov. 19 brawl, and little of it has been good.

                    But we don't feel compelled to moan and show our scars to anyone who will look or listen.

                    True, the Pistons did not suffer as much as the Pacers. But guess what? The Pistons didn't go into the stands and attack fans. You can point out all the other incidents that led up to it -- Artest's hard foul on Ben Wallace, Wallace's shoving Ron Artest, Artest's lying on the scorer's table, the fan's throwing the cup -- but there was no brawl until Artest ran into the stands.

                    Everything that happened afterward -- as sickening and inexcusable as it might have been -- was sparked by Artest's action.

                    Artest, Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal pummeled paying customers. Thus, their penalties were stiffer than those imposed on the Pistons players.

                    Sorry, Reggie, you do not get to play the victim card here. You and your team are paying the consequences of your own actions.

                    As for the security at The Palace, it was far from lax. That building was sealed tightly enough for a presidential visit. Bomb-sniffing dogs swept the entire building twice, as a matter of course, before some fool called in the bogus threat. Security personnel were posted in front of both locker rooms all day long -- before there was a bomb threat.

                    They repeated the drill after the threat was made.

                    There was no bomb, no threat. Nobody, except the Pacers briefly, was evacuated.

                    Yet, it took an intervention from the league office to get the Pacers onto the court.

                    Had they come back immediately after police sounded the all-clear, this would have been a five-paragraph, one-day story. Now it's national news.

                    And guess what the news is -- Detroit is a dangerous city and The Palace is an unruly venue.

                    That is utter garbage, of course.

                    At least one Pacer seems to understand, and believe it or not, it's Jermaine O'Neal, who obliged autograph seekers and slapped hands with fans in the same tunnel in which he was doused with beer in November.

                    "We are human, we do live regular lives. Something as serious as a bomb threat is no joking matter whatsoever," he said. "For somebody to do that, I think that is extremely unfair, not only to our team, but it's unfair to the city. There's a lot of good fans out here in Detroit. For some stupid person to call and do that, the people in Detroit should be mad at that person."

                    Here's a final snapshot by which to remember Miller: As Miller was standing in front of the Pacers bench, a fan yelled, sincerely, "Reggie, thanks for all the memories, man."

                    Miller smirked and didn't acknowledge the fan.

                    Adios, Reg.







                    http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/...D04-130270.htm
                    This coming from a Detroit writer. That about sums it up. Yeah, Reggie is the bad one, not Big Ben. This guy is a homer.
                    Super Bowl XLI Champions
                    2000 Eastern Conference Champions




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                    • #11
                      Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

                      Wow whats really pathetic is that this guy is a Pistons fan girl and he doesn't know that the Palace isn't in Detroit.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

                        Maybe an admin can start the first article posted above on another thread. I was kinda looking foward to discussing Vescey's accurate comments, but this thread went a different direction.
                        "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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                        • #13
                          Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

                          Chris McCosky can die a painful horrifying death and burn in hell.
                          "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG" - Carol "The Walking Dead"

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                          • #14
                            Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

                            Originally posted by Hoop
                            Chris McCosky can die a painful horrifying death and burn in hell.
                            Or you can send him a nice e-mail, which I did. Nothing about dying a painful horrifying death and burning in hell though

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                            • #15
                              Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

                              Originally posted by McKeyFan
                              Maybe an admin can start the first article posted above on another thread. I was kinda looking foward to discussing Vescey's accurate comments, but this thread went a different direction.
                              That's a good idea. The Vescey one is "free" of these posts now, so if you want to comment go ahead.

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