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Thread: Bias Article Discussion

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Maybe you'll like this one better.
    Miller leaves Palace with venom in voice

    Anger is misplaced as he rants about arena security and Detroit after game.

    By Chris McCosky / The Detroit News




    AUBURN HILLS -- So long, Reggie Miller, adios. Make sure you pick up all your used tissue and crying towels on your way out.

    I am done with Reggie Miller. I respect his game. He will go down as one of the game's greatest snipers, perhaps its best clutch shooter. His place among the elite players in NBA history is secure.

    But I am so done with his whining and petulance -- and the fake chip on his shoulder.

    I am sorry that my lasting image of him will be from Friday night, when he was standing in the locker room like a martyr, contending he and his team were somehow victims of some injustice.

    "We've been penalized so much this year, and our team, and nothing has ever happened to the Pistons or The Palace or even the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it, and the league ought to be ashamed of themselves to let security be as lax as it is around here.

    "We're always going to get the brunt of it as players, especially this year. David Stern has to take a hard look in the mirror every morning when he wakes up on his decision, the way he penalized us and the way he penalized the Pistons."

    OK, stop. That's enough. Let's not rewrite history. Plenty has happened to the Pistons and Detroit since the Nov. 19 brawl, and little of it has been good.

    But we don't feel compelled to moan and show our scars to anyone who will look or listen.

    True, the Pistons did not suffer as much as the Pacers. But guess what? The Pistons didn't go into the stands and attack fans. You can point out all the other incidents that led up to it -- Artest's hard foul on Ben Wallace, Wallace's shoving Ron Artest, Artest's lying on the scorer's table, the fan's throwing the cup -- but there was no brawl until Artest ran into the stands.

    Everything that happened afterward -- as sickening and inexcusable as it might have been -- was sparked by Artest's action.

    Artest, Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal pummeled paying customers. Thus, their penalties were stiffer than those imposed on the Pistons players.

    Sorry, Reggie, you do not get to play the victim card here. You and your team are paying the consequences of your own actions.

    As for the security at The Palace, it was far from lax. That building was sealed tightly enough for a presidential visit. Bomb-sniffing dogs swept the entire building twice, as a matter of course, before some fool called in the bogus threat. Security personnel were posted in front of both locker rooms all day long -- before there was a bomb threat.

    They repeated the drill after the threat was made.

    There was no bomb, no threat. Nobody, except the Pacers briefly, was evacuated.

    Yet, it took an intervention from the league office to get the Pacers onto the court.

    Had they come back immediately after police sounded the all-clear, this would have been a five-paragraph, one-day story. Now it's national news.

    And guess what the news is -- Detroit is a dangerous city and The Palace is an unruly venue.

    That is utter garbage, of course.

    At least one Pacer seems to understand, and believe it or not, it's Jermaine O'Neal, who obliged autograph seekers and slapped hands with fans in the same tunnel in which he was doused with beer in November.

    "We are human, we do live regular lives. Something as serious as a bomb threat is no joking matter whatsoever," he said. "For somebody to do that, I think that is extremely unfair, not only to our team, but it's unfair to the city. There's a lot of good fans out here in Detroit. For some stupid person to call and do that, the people in Detroit should be mad at that person."

    Here's a final snapshot by which to remember Miller: As Miller was standing in front of the Pacers bench, a fan yelled, sincerely, "Reggie, thanks for all the memories, man."

    Miller smirked and didn't acknowledge the fan.

    Adios, Reg.


    On the farm


    The NBA is moving closer to commissioner David Stern's dream of a farm system.

    Last week, the NBDL (the NBA's development league) expanded by four teams. Austin and Fort Worth, Texas; Tulsa, Okla.; and Albuquerque, N.M., were purchased by a group headed by David Kahn.

    There will be 10 teams in the NBDL next season. Five are independently owned and five are owned by the NBA. Stern has said he wants the league ultimately to have 15 teams, each affiliated with two NBA teams.

    "Since Mr. Stern and I began speaking about this last spring, this was his vision," said Kahn, who was the Pacers' general manager from 1998-2002. "I share his vision that we need it and I hope it happens."

    Although NBA teams would not have to supply all the players for minor-league affiliates (there would be unrestricted free agents), they would be able to send young players to these teams and maintain their contractual rights.


    Sound bytes


    The Knicks' Tim Thomas, after defeating the Celtics and trash-talking Paul Pierce last week: "It's not even MTV, and he got punk'd."

    Kevin McHale, Timberwolves coach and president, on superstitions: "I'm real superstitious: If you go out and outwork the other team, you have a good chance of beating them."


    Material from personal interviews, other beat writers and Detroit News wire services was used in this report. You can reach Chris McCosky at (313) 222-1489 or cmccosky@detnews.com.


    Chris McCosky's quick hits


    Yao Ming needs to take his act to Comedy Central. His Shaquille O'Neal shtick is hilarious. Hey, Yao, we understand that you learn something new every time you face Shaq. "Yes, but the tuition is a bit too expensive." Bam. Yao, what is it you would most like to learn from him? "What I really want to know is when he's going to retire." Bam-bam. Imagine how funny he'll be when he speaks English even better than he does now.

    The player is always the last to know when he's done. Alonzo Mourning has essentially turned himself into the Darko Milicic of the Miami Heat. The crowd chants for him, and he plays only late in blowout games. He's their human victory cigar. He might get a few more minutes now that Christian Laettner is out because of an injury, but he's basically on the team for sentimental reasons. The only people who don't seem to realize that are Mourning and Shaquille O'Neal. Said Shaq: "Now you have the No. 1 and No. 2 centers in the game on the same team." Huh? Maybe in 1996 or 1997 they were the best centers in the game (though I don't think so), but not now.

    Ah, the Minnesota Timberwolves, Team Harmony of the NBA. Despite fighting for their playoff lives, they still can't get along with one another. Players and coaches had to separate Michael Olowokandi and Sam Cassell during a practice Thursday. Harsh words from Cassell resulted in Olowokandi's going after him. The two were separated and things seemed to calm down, until Olowokandi went back at Cassell. No punches were thrown, but it's clear the Timberwolves will have to blow up their roster and start anew.

    Two NBA coaches, two vastly different takes on Reggie Miller's imminent retirement. After Miller scored 39 points against his team March 18, Lakers coach Frank Hamblen said, "When you can score your age in this league, it's not time to quit." Spurs coach Gregg Popovich begged to differ. "Reggie is somebody that every player in this league could learn from, especially on how the game should be played and how you should prepare," Popovich said. "He is one of the all-time greats. On the selfish side, I hope he retires and stays there."

    Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy apparently is done with the cute Coaching Van Gundy Brothers stories. "If I see one more story about us I'm going to puke," he said, referring to stories about him and his brother Stan, who coaches the Heat. "Me and my brother. Me and my mom. Mom listens with the sound, my dad doesn't. Who cares? Really, I'm so sick of it. You guys just won't let it go. I mean, gosh. It's not a novelty anymore. It's painful to read those stories. 'And when Jeff was 3....' I mean, my goodness." When told that Stan was far more chatty on the topic, Jeff said, "He's in a better mood. He's 52-16. Let me win 12 in a row, let me go 41-9 over a stretch of games, you can ask me whatever you want about anything you want, you'll get a positive remark."

    Want to know the best new nickname in the league? Brent Barry of the Spurs has begun to call Manu Ginobili, a man who never shied away from a floor burn, El Contusion.

    So much for Baron Davis' saving the Warriors. They are 7-8 since he joined them, and coach Mike Montgomery is getting a little tired of hearing about the Baron Davis era. "We're going to have Baron building us a new arena pretty soon," Montgomery barked after getting one too many questions about Davis' impact. "Geez, Andris (Biedrins) is 6-11. That must be 'cause Baron is here."

    So usually mild-mannered forward Mike Dunleavy of the Warriors goes off on an official and earns an ejection and suddenly he's everybody's hero. Wow. After picking up four quick and questionable fouls trying to guard Dirk Nowitzki last week, Dunleavy went after referee Bill Spooner, screaming and spitting (inadvertently) in Spooner's face. Spooner tossed him immediately, and the fans went bonkers. They gave Dunleavy a standing ovation, and he played up to it by barking as he walked off the court, ripping off his jersey and throwing it into the crowd. "I got a kick out of it," Warriors president Chris Mullin said. "The way the crowd reacted I felt was pretty revealing. I think they were waiting for that." But Mullin, who has thrown a few tantrums in his day, wasn't in favor of the jersey toss. "I've been in that situation before. I've done similar things. But I didn't take my shirt off," he said. "With my body, I'm not taking my shirt off." You can always tell the men from the boys in this league by the way they react in the heat of the moment. For example, witness the reaction of the Raptors' Rafer Alston to an encounter with the Cavaliers' Ira Newble, the pride of Southfield. Newble stopped a layup attempt with a hard foul on Alston, who charged after Newble, acting as if he wanted to fight him. "I made a basketball play," Newble said. "He got sensitive and tried to take (it) somewhere that in his heart he didn't really want to go." Well put. "He was running his mouth," Newble said. "Some guys just talk a lot and try to put on a show out there. In an NBA game you can act like you're going to do something, but you know people are going to be there to stop you."

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    http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/...D04-130270.htm

  2. #2

    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    I'm not even going to begin to break down that guy's article; he's biased in every way, shape, and form.

  3. #3
    Member Doug in CO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    One criticism from the Detroit writer I can agree with...

    Reggie does not go out of his way - or even try a little - to be fan friendly at the arena. I have noticed this as I have had positive experiences with other Pacers and Reggie always runs in and out of the arena like the fans are a nuisance. And no, this is not new this year. He has always been that way.

    I am sure I will tick people off saying this - I love Reggie - but he just does not try with the fans at the arena. I know he is great in the community - but for those of us who only see the Pacers on the road, he is not what I would call a great ambassador for the Pacers. He knows we are fans in enemy territory - it would not kill him to try a little.
    Heywoode says... work hard man.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    And guess what the news is -- Detroit is a dangerous city and The Palace is an unruly venue. That is utter garbage, of course.
    Easily refuted by the FOUR bomb threat calls made that night. Perhaps something really needs to be blown up before this guy understands.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    If you pay attention to what JO said, it's not very complimentary."For somebody to do that, I think that is extremely unfair, not only to our team, but it's unfair to the city. " I'm thinking Ron Artest...and it is very unfair to the team to suspend him all these games...that author needs to get the Roy D. Mercer treatment ( see www.roydmercer.com )...i just can't stand biased articles...I even get mad at local news for that sometimes...

  6. #6
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    You can always tell the men from the boys in this league by the way they react in the heat of the moment. For example, witness the reaction of the Raptors' Rafer Alston to an encounter with the Cavaliers' Ira Newble, the pride of Southfield. Newble stopped a layup attempt with a hard foul on Alston, who charged after Newble, acting as if he wanted to fight him.


    Oh goodness - I need to catch my breath.

    Can anyone say Ben Wallace?

    Besides, I was at that Raptors/Cavs game, and what Rafer did was not even comparable to what Ben did on 11/19, or 3/25 for that matter. This author says that he "charged after Newble, acting as if he wanted to fight him". Uhhh...nope, sorry buddy. Rafer turned around and said something to him and they were split up.

    But of course, when Ben Wallace does his stuff he is so 'manly' and 'passionate' right?

    What a tool.

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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    I'd assume the "comment on this story" link's gonna get a lot of use?

    Gotta admit, a Detroit writer using that Alston-Newble altercation in that way is pretty hilarious after the Wallace reactcion to Artest last November.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  8. #8
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Here is an article that suggests maybe the Pacers were staging a silent protest. The amazing thing to me is Friday's game did nothing to lesson the bitterness most Pacers fans have. Who am I bitter towards, just about everyone. That is why there is a part of me that wishes the Pacers got on that bus and never turned around, just kept going. I know that would not have been the right thing to do, I know it would have caused more problems, but that is how a small part of me feels

    http://chicagosports.chicagotribune....ck=3&cset=true

    Bomb threat targets Pacers
    Causes long delay of 1st visit to Pistons' arena since big brawl


    By Sam Smith, Tribune pro basketball reporter. Tribune news services contributed

    March 26, 2005


    So much for closure.

    The mess of an NBA season for the Detroit Pistons and the Indiana Pacers continued Friday when the first meeting in Auburn Hills, Mich., between the teams since the infamous Nov. 19 brawl was delayed almost 90 minutes while police investigated a bomb threat directed at the Pacers.




    The game finally started at about 9:30 (EST), and the Pacers won 94-81. There were no incidents during the game. The Pacers play the Bulls at the United Center on Saturday.

    The bomb threat, according to police, was called in to the Palace of Auburn Hills switchboard about 45 minutes before the game was to begin. The teams, and the NBA, had hoped a peaceful meeting would give everyone a chance to move on from the notorious incident that decimated the Pacers and left a stain on the reputations of the city of Detroit and the NBA.

    Instead, the Pacers decided to board their team bus and leave the arena while a search with bomb-sniffing dogs was completed. The bus drove into the arena parking lot and back to the loading dock.

    Even though the Pistons and the NBA had tried to downplay the Pacers' first return to Auburn Hills, playoff-level security was in place and police said they used bomb-sniffing dogs earlier in the day to inspect the Pacers' locker room, a regular procedure for high-profile events, and police guarded the locker room for the rest of the day.

    "The game did not start on time because we had to make sure everyone involved was at a comfort level that would allow them to start this game," Auburn Hills Police Chief Doreen Olko told the Associated Press. "That's what took so long."

    Fans were never told about the bomb threat and stayed in their seats. The Michigan State-Duke NCAA game was shown on the overhead scoreboard screen.

    Auburn Hills police emphasized they believed there was no serious risk, but the Pacers insisted on leaving, they said.

    There remain hard feelings between the franchises over the brawl. The Pacers have felt victimized because Ron Artest was suspended for the season and Stephen Jackson for 30 games. Jermaine O'Neal, who was at Friday's game though injured, was reinstated on Christmas Day after an arbitrator reduced his suspension to 15 games. The only Piston suspended was Ben Wallace, for six games.

    The Pacers have maintained Wallace caused the melee by inciting Artest late in a game already decided in the Pacers' favor. The Pacers believe the game was a statement of their superiority over Detroit, yet it severely damaged their season. Still, the Pacers remain in playoff contention and are in position to open the playoffs against the Pistons.

    Just this week, NBA Commissioner David Stern told the Indianapolis Star that despite having second thoughts he decided not to reinstate Artest.

    "At a certain point in the last week or two we decided the most important thing here is Ron's return to the NBA, and the best path for that is through a [counseling] program in which he's now engaged," Stern said.

    Artest is with Tri-Star Sports and Entertainment Group in Nashville, a life management company.Artest now practices and travels with the team but isn't allowed in NBA arenas.

    "It has been personally very painful for me because I understand their view and their feelings on it," Stern said, acknowledging the Pacers' bitter feelings and personal appeals to him this season for fairness. "On the basis of all the reports and my visit with Ron, I truly believe [Artest will be a changed man]. I would like to make sure that comes to pass, rather than rushing him back into the heat of battle. I'm at peace with the decision."

    Perhaps the long delay, which the police suggested was unwarranted, was a silent Pacers' protest of what they believe was bias against their team that helped destroy their season and potentially cost them millions of dollars. It doesn't seem this rivalry will end for some time.


    Copyright 2005, The Chicago Tribune

  9. #9

    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    "It has been personally very painful for me because I understand their view and their feelings on it," Stern said


    Whatever you ****er
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Maybe you'll like this one better.
    Miller leaves Palace with venom in voice

    Anger is misplaced as he rants about arena security and Detroit after game.

    By Chris McCosky / The Detroit News




    AUBURN HILLS -- So long, Reggie Miller, adios. Make sure you pick up all your used tissue and crying towels on your way out.

    I am done with Reggie Miller. I respect his game. He will go down as one of the game's greatest snipers, perhaps its best clutch shooter. His place among the elite players in NBA history is secure.

    But I am so done with his whining and petulance -- and the fake chip on his shoulder.

    I am sorry that my lasting image of him will be from Friday night, when he was standing in the locker room like a martyr, contending he and his team were somehow victims of some injustice.

    "We've been penalized so much this year, and our team, and nothing has ever happened to the Pistons or The Palace or even the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it, and the league ought to be ashamed of themselves to let security be as lax as it is around here.

    "We're always going to get the brunt of it as players, especially this year. David Stern has to take a hard look in the mirror every morning when he wakes up on his decision, the way he penalized us and the way he penalized the Pistons."

    OK, stop. That's enough. Let's not rewrite history. Plenty has happened to the Pistons and Detroit since the Nov. 19 brawl, and little of it has been good.

    But we don't feel compelled to moan and show our scars to anyone who will look or listen.

    True, the Pistons did not suffer as much as the Pacers. But guess what? The Pistons didn't go into the stands and attack fans. You can point out all the other incidents that led up to it -- Artest's hard foul on Ben Wallace, Wallace's shoving Ron Artest, Artest's lying on the scorer's table, the fan's throwing the cup -- but there was no brawl until Artest ran into the stands.

    Everything that happened afterward -- as sickening and inexcusable as it might have been -- was sparked by Artest's action.

    Artest, Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal pummeled paying customers. Thus, their penalties were stiffer than those imposed on the Pistons players.

    Sorry, Reggie, you do not get to play the victim card here. You and your team are paying the consequences of your own actions.

    As for the security at The Palace, it was far from lax. That building was sealed tightly enough for a presidential visit. Bomb-sniffing dogs swept the entire building twice, as a matter of course, before some fool called in the bogus threat. Security personnel were posted in front of both locker rooms all day long -- before there was a bomb threat.

    They repeated the drill after the threat was made.

    There was no bomb, no threat. Nobody, except the Pacers briefly, was evacuated.

    Yet, it took an intervention from the league office to get the Pacers onto the court.

    Had they come back immediately after police sounded the all-clear, this would have been a five-paragraph, one-day story. Now it's national news.

    And guess what the news is -- Detroit is a dangerous city and The Palace is an unruly venue.

    That is utter garbage, of course.

    At least one Pacer seems to understand, and believe it or not, it's Jermaine O'Neal, who obliged autograph seekers and slapped hands with fans in the same tunnel in which he was doused with beer in November.

    "We are human, we do live regular lives. Something as serious as a bomb threat is no joking matter whatsoever," he said. "For somebody to do that, I think that is extremely unfair, not only to our team, but it's unfair to the city. There's a lot of good fans out here in Detroit. For some stupid person to call and do that, the people in Detroit should be mad at that person."

    Here's a final snapshot by which to remember Miller: As Miller was standing in front of the Pacers bench, a fan yelled, sincerely, "Reggie, thanks for all the memories, man."

    Miller smirked and didn't acknowledge the fan.

    Adios, Reg.







    http://www.detnews.com/2005/pistons/...D04-130270.htm
    This coming from a Detroit writer. That about sums it up. Yeah, Reggie is the bad one, not Big Ben. This guy is a homer.
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  11. #11
    Banned Destined4Greatness's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Wow whats really pathetic is that this guy is a Pistons fan girl and he doesn't know that the Palace isn't in Detroit.

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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Maybe an admin can start the first article posted above on another thread. I was kinda looking foward to discussing Vescey's accurate comments, but this thread went a different direction.

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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Chris McCosky can die a painful horrifying death and burn in hell.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

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    sweabs
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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoop
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    Chris McCosky can die a painful horrifying death and burn in hell.
    Or you can send him a nice e-mail, which I did. Nothing about dying a painful horrifying death and burning in hell though

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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan
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    Maybe an admin can start the first article posted above on another thread. I was kinda looking foward to discussing Vescey's accurate comments, but this thread went a different direction.
    That's a good idea. The Vescey one is "free" of these posts now, so if you want to comment go ahead.

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    Default Re: Vescey on the bomb at the Palace

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey
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    Or you can send him a nice e-mail, which I did. Nothing about dying a painful horrifying death and burning in hell though
    I tend to get a little emotional.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    I'm going to take the same stance on this that most of you are taking with reggie.

    Bravo, McCosky. Bravo for not being PC, and "telling it like it is."

    Best article I've read from him all season. Reggie was so out of line, SOMEBODY had to put him in his place.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Banned Destined4Greatness's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Only a Pistons Fan ^

    He doesn't know anything about your own team and you are a cheerleader for him. Just because he is associated with your team doesn't mean you should side with him.

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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Destined4Greatness
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    Only a Pistons Fan ^

    He doesn't know anything about your own team and you are a cheerleader for him. Just because he is associated with your team doesn't mean you should side with him.
    Actually, I agree %100 with the McCosky article.

    Most Pistons fans do as well.

    Reggie was totally out of hand in critisizing palace security. I think he went WAY too far in his comments.

    I'd say most Pistons fans see Reggie now the same way Pacers fans see Ben Wallace.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  20. #20

    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Funny how Pistons fans would agree.....

    The article is a piece of crap. I agree with Reggie wholeheartedly
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  21. #21
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    I'd say most Pistons fans see Reggie now the same way Pacers fans see Ben Wallace.
    Obviously I'm not going to speak for most Pistons fans - but from the Detroit fans I know and have spoken to, I would still put Artest in that spot, or even Jackson.

    From what I saw, security was pretty damn good at the Palace on the 25th. But I'm still convinced that 11/19 security was just brutal. Either way, I think Reggie still has the right to criticize the security just because what happened on 11/19. However, I think most of his anger in the article is directed towards Stern, and rightfully so. Just my opinion.

  22. #22
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    I'd say most Pistons fans see Reggie now the same way Pacers fans see Ben Wallace.
    Why so? Just because he said stuff about the Palace's security? Last time I checked calling out someone's security wasn't half as bad as starting a riot. No reason for the Piston fans to have a clear hatred for Reggie.
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by pacerfan2425
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    Why so? Just because he said stuff about the Palace's security? Last time I checked calling out someone's security wasn't half as bad as starting a riot. No reason for the Piston fans to have a clear hatred for Reggie.
    So you're saying Piston fans should direct their anger at Ron Artest then?

  24. #24
    Banned Destined4Greatness's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Last time I checked when you had to worry about a bomb and a fight occured security failed. But thats just me. And funny a Pistons fan supporting a guy that knows nothing about his own team, funny. FYI the Palace ain't in Detroit.

  25. #25
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bias Article Discussion

    Kstat, I suggest you stay out of this, mind you, just a suggestion, but you are so way out of line here that you are taking risks I would advice against.

    4! bombthreats later. talking with a man who's house was burned down by "fans" while the police gave him the same "assurances" that Aub Hill Cops gave him last night, worthless goobledigoo (who to complain to when you DO get blown up?) and you expect him to consider the league's actions, whom hardly anyone on this board will consider "reasonable" as "OK"?

    dream on, flame on, get a grip, you are starting to troll my friend.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


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