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Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

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  • #1

    Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

    Late last season as the Pacers team suffered through a very rough second half of the season and some struggles in the playoffs there started to be some grumbling that perhaps the Pacers not only did not get the better of the trade with the Suns but in fact were actually taken to the cleaners. After all Scola ended the second half of the season in a very uneven fashion and suffered through some very poor shooting performances and to make matters worse the Suns were an up and coming team that was filled with young athletic exciting players that by almost anyone's definition was fun to watch.

    Two of the players that the Pacers traded to the Suns were in fact integral pieces of the Suns success. Gerald Green was allowed to free lance on offense and they were able to hide his defensive breakdowns in the way they played team defense. Miles Plumlee was an athletic mobile big that put up decent numbers on the board and did help protect the middle.

    Larry Bird said that when the trade was made that we were "all in" meaning that the Scola move was designed to take us to the finals. That didn't happen.

    I always laugh when I read people who have an agenda make the bold statement that there was one reason or one player who was responsible for the collapse last season in the second half and then our struggles in the playoffs, there was no one reason or one player. It was a series of events each more tragic than the last and ultimately it just caught up with us. However there can be no doubt one of the things that hurt us last year was the play of Scola. Not that he played poorly per se, sometimes he did, but the fact that he was not playing at the level he played early in the season. I will freely admit that an early home game vs. the Bulls that season was one of the reasons I started to size up my replica championship rings that I thought we would be getting. Scola was a beast, totally decimated the Bulls and left Taj Gibson (notorious pain in our @ss) perplexed and befuddled. I was convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that if this was how it was going to be then Bird was 100% and we were all in. For so many seasons we lacked any form of consistent offense from our bench then along comes Scola and it was all good. Then he started to struggle, then the team struggled and well we all know the rest.

    That led us to this season. An aging Scola was forced to start the early part of the season because West was out. However there was no joy in this for anyone as everybody considered him toast from last season and well let's be honest here he was on the last season of his contract so most thought he was either trade bait or at the very least playing out the season till he either retired or went back west. In the mean time the team went from title contenders to lottery bound due to, well we all know the reasons.

    However somewhere somehow and without much fanfare Luis Scola wasn't playing like a player who was on his last leg or who was just trying to finish out his tenure without being injured. In fact his play was only topped out by his leadership and being a supportive team mate on the bench. He more than held his own when he had to start for West, in fact several of us were saying that when the season started better than we thought it would that Scola was a big part of that and when he was benched for West it was pretty clear to some at the time that Scola had outplayed West and that his activity and mobility were exactly what Roy needed beside him. However over the past month West has stepped up and now they are back to complimenting one another.

    While statistically he is not setting the world on fire with 9ppg and 6rpg his scrappy defense and low post threat on offense makes other teams adjust to him. He often times is the best big on the floor when both teams have their bench's in and certainly he is the most crafty.

    In the mean time the Suns have faltered, through no fault of the players we traded but still. Gerald Green still is about the same however his defense is still atrocious and they no longer give him the long leash he had. Miles Plumlee lost his starting job, lost a ton of minutes and asked for a traded. After being traded to the Bucks he is having some time adjusting to his new role (this is normal for young players btw). The player the Suns selected with our draft pick was Bogdan Bogdanovic who is not in the NBA as of yet.

    Green is a part of the Suns team currently however one wonders for how long and to what level.
    Plumlee is already gone.
    Bogdanovic may never play a game in the NBA as he signed a 4 year deal in Turkey (he does have a buyout)

    Luis Scola on the other hand is still a vital integral part of our team. I don't know what the future holds for him or us but I would not be surprised at all if Bird brought him back.

    Overall when reviewing the trade I still consider this a win for both teams ultimately but I still think we got the better end of the deal.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

    I thought Scola was really bad the first 10 or so games this season, but since then he's been pretty good.

    There are two big differences in his play between now and the end of last season. One is that he has a higher proportion of his shots from post moves. His inability to hit an elbow jumper defined how teams guarded us in the playoffs. Now he's putting pressure on opponents by utilizing his strengths. I'd also guess his outside shooting % is up. The other is that he's way more active on defense. His effort there is where he makes a difference. We saw it early last season and we're seeing it right now. His hands and his pick and roll defense have been great.

    I'm one who really wanted to see a lot of Lavoy Allen, but I'm okay with Scola getting those minutes with the way he's playing.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

      Really wonder what was up with him in the second half of the year. Fatigue, injury, or just the general collapse of the team brought him down? I have no problem with the trade if he keeps playing like this or the first half of last year, he's been pretty damn good.

      For the record, I was one of the guys who didn't want to see the dude play another minute in a Pacers jersey during the second half of last year.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

        The question is how much he has left in the tank.

        The Pacers FINALLY have one of the top scoring benches in the League.....easily top 3 in bench scoring. Scola and Stuckey is a big part of that. I ( like many here ) are on the Lavoy for Backup PF bandwagon given what I have seen what he can do on the defensive end with Mahinmi. But I admit that losing a big part of the bench scoring is a huge concern. I really think that Lavoy can develop his offensive game.....but it won't be anytime soon unless he really works on it during the summer. I love his jump shot and think he can become REALLY consistent if he practices more and that he can develop some low post game...which really sucks now.

        I guess I can live with re-signing Scola for another 2 year deal.... hopefully at $2+ mil a year? But I'm not going to lie....his age is a concern of mine.

        On the other hand.....I want Lavoy for his long-term and defensive potential that I think can develop into a somewhat reliable offensive option coming off the bench....but fully admit that I am concerned about the loss of scoring by going from Scola to Lavoy.

        I'm really torn on what to do. I will say that I am 70/30 in favor of keeping Lavoy over Scola.....mainly due to the age concerns and the potential that I see in Lavoy ( he's a solid offensive rebounder, he sets Bone crunching screens and can develop a decent midrange game ).....but I can see that there are real valid concerns about losing Scola and his scoring.
        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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        • #5
          Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

          Frank is allowing Scola more time with the ball in his hands. Typically Scola is starting his stints with a post up or two. I feel like this is getting him going better than just the mid range jump shot after jump shot we forced him into last year since Lance's biggest strength to our offense was the kick back pass and he was the main creator of that bench unit.

          Simply put, though many of Lance's assists went to Scola, I'm not sure their games meshed as well as it first looked. While Scola was able to get open and Lance was able to hit the pass, it was ultimately not the sort of shot you want Scola consistently taking.

          I've enjoyed watching him this year. In much the same way you don't often see a player with West's mid range game, it is rare also to see a big man who has the foot work and finishing touch around the rim that Scola displays.


          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

            I would not cry is Scola was done as a Pacer, but I have to give credit where credit is due: Luis has been a big part of our recent success, props to him for that.

            Ultimately, I do not think that relying on Luis and his lack of foot speed is a good thing, but Derrick McKey is not walking through that door.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

              Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
              Frank is allowing Scola more time with the ball in his hands. Typically Scola is starting his stints with a post up or two. I feel like this is getting him going better than just the mid range jump shot after jump shot we forced him into last year since Lance's biggest strength to our offense was the kick back pass and he was the main creator of that bench unit.

              Simply put, though many of Lance's assists went to Scola, I'm not sure their games meshed as well as it first looked. While Scola was able to get open and Lance was able to hit the pass, it was ultimately not the sort of shot you want Scola consistently taking.

              I've enjoyed watching him this year. In much the same way you don't often see a player with West's mid range game, it is rare also to see a big man who has the foot work and finishing touch around the rim that Scola displays.
              Scola has a Harry Potter-sized Bag of Magic Tricks that he can pull out to score. The guy is just crafty when it comes to scoring near the basket. Also....when he takes that mid-range jumpshot at the top of the FT line.....I just assume that it's automatically in.
              Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

                I am extremely happy with that trade. Getting rid of Green was worth the price of admission alone.

                Yeah, there have been times when Luis has hurt us. I don't deny that. But his presence, hustle and crafty play has flat out kept is in and won some games for us this year.

                You can't watch one of those 2-3 minute sequences where he gets a couple steals and fast breaks off of high pick and roll hedging on defense and tell me that he isn't a part of what makes this team tick. His crafty post play, which Frank is finally letting him showcase, is a huge asset when we need a bucket. He comes down with rebounds and scores easy baskets not off of his athleticism, but just because he is smarter than his defenders.

                I really love having Luis around.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

                  Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                  The question is how much he has left in the tank.

                  The Pacers FINALLY have one of the top scoring benches in the League.....easily top 3 in bench scoring. Scola and Stuckey is a big part of that. I ( like many here ) are on the Lavoy for Backup PF bandwagon given what I have seen what he can do on the defensive end with Mahinmi. But I admit that losing a big part of the bench scoring is a huge concern. I really think that Lavoy can develop his offensive game.....but it won't be anytime soon unless he really works on it during the summer. I love his jump shot and think he can become REALLY consistent if he practices more and that he can develop some low post game...which really sucks now.

                  I guess I can live with re-signing Scola for another 2 year deal.... hopefully at $2+ mil a year? But I'm not going to lie....his age is a concern of mine.

                  On the other hand.....I want Lavoy for his long-term and defensive potential that I think can develop into a somewhat reliable offensive option coming off the bench....but fully admit that I am concerned about the loss of scoring by going from Scola to Lavoy.

                  I'm really torn on what to do. I will say that I am 70/30 in favor of keeping Lavoy over Scola.....mainly due to the age concerns and the potential that I see in Lavoy ( he's a solid offensive rebounder, he sets Bone crunching screens and can develop a decent midrange game ).....but I can see that there are real valid concerns about losing Scola and his scoring.
                  Chris and Quinn mentioned Scola's age last night. They said he has a lot of energy and takes good care of himself. They think he has plenty left in his tank.

                  I think the Scola deal has turned out well. I was glad to see Green go, but disappointed in seeing Plumlee go especially after the way he started last season. Plumlee has cooled off and Scola is being used better this season.

                  I am not adamant one way or the other about bringing Scola back. I would like to know what the Pacers plan to do with Whittington. Bird has stated that he is very high on Whittington and some of the players have said that he can be a good player. So is Whittington a 4 or 5, starter or reserve? What do they see?

                  If Whittington is a 5, then bring back Scola for 2-3 years. If they see him as a 4, then maybe try to bring back Scola for 1 year.

                  If they are so high on Whittington, somewhere along the line they are going to have to get him some playing time. He could be the 5th big next season, but the season after that he would have to get legitimate minutes.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

                    Originally posted by joew8302 View Post
                    I would not cry is Scola was done as a Pacer, but I have to give credit where credit is due: Luis has been a big part of our recent success, props to him for that.

                    Ultimately, I do not think that relying on Luis and his lack of foot speed is a good thing, but Derrick McKey is not walking through that door.
                    If Scola stays on it should be as third string PF.... to tutor Solo or something. I think Stuckey is a big part of our bench, Scola's production at PF can be replaced. Grab someone like Carlos Boozer to play backup PF if you want a vet, or someone younger preferably a stretch 4. I'd like to add Mo Williams at backup pint guard next season or get DJ Augustin back here. Mahinmi needs to go, maybe sign Andres Bargani from the Knicks. He'll be a free agent and he seems to be healthy and have his shot back.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

                      Originally posted by Grimp View Post
                      If Scola stays on it should be as third string PF.... to tutor Solo or something. I think Stuckey is a big part of our bench, Scola's production at PF can be replaced. Grab someone like Carlos Boozer to play backup PF if you want a vet, or someone younger preferably a stretch 4. I'd like to add Mo Williams at backup pint guard next season or get DJ Augustin back here. Mahinmi needs to go, maybe sign Andres Bargani from the Knicks. He'll be a free agent and he seems to be healthy and have his shot back.
                      You want Stuckey to return....sure, NP. How much do you think he can be signed for?

                      You then suggest either Boozer or Bargs as a Backup PF.....then maybe MoWill or Augustine

                      For the love of all that is holy...........how much $$$ / Salary Cap Space do you think that the Pacers have to spend on Free Agents?

                      Last question.....why does Mahinmi ( a Player that fits his role on the Team to a tee ) have to go?
                      Last edited by CableKC; 03-11-2015, 03:28 PM.
                      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

                        Originally posted by sav View Post
                        Chris and Quinn mentioned Scola's age last night. They said he has a lot of energy and takes good care of himself. They think he has plenty left in his tank.

                        I think the Scola deal has turned out well. I was glad to see Green go, but disappointed in seeing Plumlee go especially after the way he started last season. Plumlee has cooled off and Scola is being used better this season.

                        I am not adamant one way or the other about bringing Scola back. I would like to know what the Pacers plan to do with Whittington. Bird has stated that he is very high on Whittington and some of the players have said that he can be a good player. So is Whittington a 4 or 5, starter or reserve? What do they see?

                        If Whittington is a 5, then bring back Scola for 2-3 years. If they see him as a 4, then maybe try to bring back Scola for 1 year.

                        If they are so high on Whittington, somewhere along the line they are going to have to get him some playing time. He could be the 5th big next season, but the season after that he would have to get legitimate minutes.
                        Whittington seems to be more of a 4 then a 5....at least based off of the way that Vogel uses his PFs and Centers in the rotation. Centers in Vogel's system are supposed to be rim protectors....hence why our defense works so well when Mahinmi or Hibbert is on the floor. Whittington seems to have more of an offensive minded game?

                        Either way, I have no problem if he were to be the 3rd Backup PF in the rotation. I simply haven't seen enough of him outside of garbage time to gauge whether he's good enough to take the place of Scola or not as the backup PF.
                        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

                          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                          You want Stuckey to return....sure, NP. How much do you think he can be signed for?

                          You then suggest either Boozer or Bargs as a Backup PF.....then maybe MoWill or Augustine

                          For the love of all that is holy...........how much $$$ / Salary Cap Space do you think that the Pacers have to spend on Free Agents?

                          Last question.....why does Mahinmi ( a Player that fits his role on the Team to a tee ) have to go?

                          Ian can't do one thing well, and overall he doesn't produce enough. Bargani can stretch the floor, gives us another dimension off the bench. Boozer would be a cheaper option I think considering his age. Bargani though I think at 29 has many good years left in him.

                          Augustin was off the top of my head but he has 1 year left on his deal after this so he most likely winds up staying in OKC. As for cap space, this is why West and Hibbert have to go. Plus renounce all bench salaries and move Ian in a deal. It can be done, I wouldn't be surprised if Hibbert was moved at the draft.

                          Anyways, if money opens up the way I hope it does this off-season yeah I think Mo will command a pretty good salary? But to have a chance to win I don't think it'll get crazy. There's really no starting position for him in the league, so it's all about what bench contract is best for him. I actually think he deserves CJ Miles contract more than CJ does. I like CJ's shooting but he seems injury prone.

                          Although it could just be a 1 season thing. Bargani is a guy who I doubt can command a lot of money because people wanna know can he stay healthy. That hurts his market value so he'd get something FAIR, but nothing close to what Mo could command.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

                            Originally posted by Grimp View Post
                            If Scola stays on it should be as third string PF.... to tutor Solo or something. I think Stuckey is a big part of our bench, Scola's production at PF can be replaced. Grab someone like Carlos Boozer to play backup PF if you want a vet, or someone younger preferably a stretch 4. I'd like to add Mo Williams at backup pint guard next season or get DJ Augustin back here. Mahinmi needs to go, maybe sign Andres Bargani from the Knicks. He'll be a free agent and he seems to be healthy and have his shot back.



                            Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                            • #15
                              Re: Taking another look at the Luis Scola trade...

                              Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                              You want Stuckey to return....sure, NP. How much do you think he can be signed for?

                              You then suggest either Boozer or Bargs as a Backup PF.....then maybe MoWill or Augustine

                              For the love of all that is holy...........how much $$$ / Salary Cap Space do you think that the Pacers have to spend on Free Agents?

                              Last question.....why does Mahinmi ( a Player that fits his role on the Team to a tee ) have to go?
                              The No Defense Team brought to you by Grimp.

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