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Thread: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

  1. #51
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    I do, lol.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  2. #52

    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Our running game as a whole hasn't done it, man, from top to bottom. He receives almost all of the blame for it.
    Clearly the Colts think he deserves the majority of the blame. They benched him last year (4 total carries in two playoff games), and have now benched him again. He's even lost the backup carries to a player who was an undrafted free agent who had 10 career carries for 18 yards entering the playoffs. And they were the ones who believed in his talent more than just about anybody.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Ya that's been a mystery to me... they go to him all year round and then bench him in the playoffs for no apparent reason, it's not like his production dropped dramatically.
    I like the staff generally although Pep can drive me crazy sometimes but one area I feel like they are bombing in is the entire running game and how they go about it. That entire aspect of our offense just seems botched and then patchworked. It needs to be stabilized and then established. Seems like Trent is always the fall boy when it's been obvious to me that the issues have gone above and beyond him.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 01-13-2015 at 11:02 PM.
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  4. #54

    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    And you know this... how? The eye test?

    I think the more appropriate question is would I change my mind about TRich if he went elsewhere that had a good system and he still showed no improvement, and the answer is absolutely yes. You guys are still way off about what we're arguing about and you're still way off about my stance on TRich. You act like just because I present a defense for him that I think he's amazing and will defend him no matter what. My entire stance is just a fair take on the situation, one that I don't think most of you are doing.
    I think most of you are correlating his draft placement and irrationality relating that to your like or dislike of him. My stance is completely independent if his draft position and cost to us. It's purely football and I feel he's got ability to succeed. I don't see a huge difference between him and the other backs. I understand most of you disagree with that and think he sucks. I don't care what you think.
    Have you changed your stance on him then KM? Just curious and asking. I know that before you saw Trent as a special talent that could be an elite RB in the right system. I'm just wondering because of your comment about not being different than the other backs. Herron and Tipton are classic guy off the street type backs. A couple bad plays from them and they could wash out of the NFL very quickly.

    I actually do think Richardson could be average in the right system. I don't think he has enough talent for any team to ever really try to find out though. And since he has poor skills for a 2nd runningback role, that could be very troublesome for his career.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    I haven't changed my mind about his abilities, no. I have been like everyone else in terms of realizing it hasn't gone as well as hoped. But the factors here have been too messed up for me to say "yes the problem is clearly and solely Trent." In fact I almost feel like this system has damaged him. It's a good team but they have not gotten anything right in the run game. It's largely been the o line... I feel like had they gotten that o line straightened out when he got here, we likely wouldn't be having these Trent arguments.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 01-13-2015 at 10:56 PM.
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  6. #56
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I haven't changed my mind about his abilities, no. I have been like everyone else in terms of realizing it hasn't gone as well as hoped. But the factors here have been too messed up for me to say "yes the problem is clearly and solely Trent." In fact I almost feel like this system has damaged him. It's a good team but they have not gotten anything right in the run game. It's largely been the o line...
    Who is saying that?

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  8. #57

    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Ya that's been a mystery to me... they go to him all year round and then bench him in the playoffs for no apparent reason, it's not like his production dropped dramatically.
    I like the staff generally although Pep can drive me crazy sometimes but one area u feel like they are bombing in is the entire running game and hiw they gi about it. That entire aspect of our offense just seems botched and then patchworked. It needs to be stabilized and then established. Seems like Trent is always the fall boy when it's been obvious to me that the issues have gone above and beyond him.
    I think the simplest explanation is that they've been trying to give him every chance to succeed during the regular season because they believe in his talent. It's kind of like Lance Stephenson in his 2nd season. He got minutes early on, but then as it got close to playoff time the chances dry up as the team goes to the players they think are performing better now. I think they would have loved to have given the job to Trent either season because he was the only possible long-term option (the other guys are clearly just roster bubble types), but when the rubber hits the road they had to give the carries to the RB's who were playing better.

  9. #58
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    First off, Boom has performed better. Just like Donald Brown did last year. In limited minutes, Tipton looked better as well. Maybe Boom will get bottled up in NE this weekend... and you know what? If he does all that tells us is with TRich we would've been dead in the water. Because, Boom, just like Donald before him, has been able to make positive contributions to the running game. TRich's positive contributions, as few and far between as they've been, are more of an "even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes".

    How anyone cannot see TRich's slow feet, slow decisions, and a total lack of burst, and not completely understand how this is a fatal flaw for an NFL RB I don't know. Even if you put him behind the best line in football, or the best line that's ever been in NFL football, those flaws will still be there. Which means just about any other competent back will ultimately be better. TRich isn't getting beat out by Barry Sanders... He's getting beat out by Donald Brown and now Boom Herron. Donald Brown.... let that sink in.

    There is no difference in the ways the backs have been used... other than the other backs have more success so ultimately offer more options. It's not like the coaches don't want TRich to succeed. It's more like they can't find any way for him to succeed.

    Grigson got fleeced. It was a panic trade and time has done nothing but bring this all into crystal clear focus. We could've gotten TRich type production with just about any practice fodder RB we could've signed off the practice squad, waiver wire, or even off the street.

    I'm sure at the time he was thinking "OPPORTUNITY!" when the chance to get the #3 pick from the year before was on the table, but he obviously moved way too quickly on this one without doing his research. I'd like to know if Cleveland saw an opportunity and called Grigson, or if he called them and couldn't hear the excitement in their voices as he made a pitch for TRich.

    Nobody has said the Colts running game is great. But it's a helluva lot better when TRich isn't part of it. That's really all anyone needs to know. If Boom gets 0 yards this week I will be confident that TRich would've gotten -10.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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  11. #59
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Bball, I'm not arguing that he's not produced, but I do disagree about his abilities. Go google some highlight vids of him to remind yourself of what this guy can do, and I don't just mean his college highlights. It does not feel like we are seeing his full potential at all.
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Well obviously. The point isn't to make Boom look pedestriatian. The point is to illustrate just how often Boom and Trent produce similiar numbers.

    It goes back to people saying Boom performs so much better, and how good the run game looks. 96% of the time, when I handicap the statistics by allowing Trent to keep his highest 3.3% of runs while throwing out Boom's highest 3.3% like they are yesterday's trash, it looks exactly the same.
    Fixed.

    Your entire premise in this thread is one massive contradiction. You say that Boom was helped mightily by 3 runs that were about 3.3% of his workload, and that it's important to look at what he was in the other 88 runs. So it's pretty funny to see how you allowed Trent to keep his highest 3.3% of runs so that he can keep his 3.3 average, allowing you to come to the incorrect conclusion that they are the same "96 percent of the time".

    Let's compare like things. If the highest 3.3% are unimportant outliers for Boom, then the highest 3.3% should be unimportant outliers for Trent too. Since you're so concerned about what Boom is 96.7% of the time, let's see what Trent is 96.7% of the time.

    Trent had 159 carries for 519 yards this year. The top 3.3% of his carries would represent about 5 carries. By my count, Trent's top 5 runs were 27 yards, 15 yards, 15 yards, 14 yards, 12 yards. Those 5 carries represented 83 yards. Without those 5 carries, which is the equivalent of ripping those 3 carries from Boom, Trent had 154 carries for 436 yards, which is a 2.83 YPC.

    Boom 96.7% of the time: 3.43 YPC
    Trent 96.7% of the time : 2.83 YPC


    Your whole premise that "Boom and Trent are the same 96.7% of the time" is just blatantly false. You're handicapping and cherry picking the stats by ditching Boom's top 3.3% of runs, while at the same time conveniently allowing Trent to keep his top 3.3% so that he can keep his 3.3 YPC. 96.7% of the time, Boom is still 0.6 yards better....hardly "exactly the same" as you said above. You say that the rest of us have a narrative, but this method of unequally manipulating the statistics seems pretty narrative driven to me. If it is so important to focus on what Boom did in 88 of his 91 carries, then it should be equally important to focus on what T-Rich did on 154 of his 159 carries. Boom is still better when you ditch an equal percentage of high outliers for both players.

    96.7% of the time, Boom is 0.6 yards better than Trent. 100% of the time, he has been 1.1 yards better. Any way you slice it, Boom is the better back. It's not that he is a really good back by any means....I'd be fine with the Colts looking to spend a 3rd rounder and trying to make that player a starter....but he's certainly better than Trent....100% of the time, 96.7% of the time, 25.34% of of the time, etc. Unless Pagano is a closet PD poster who is trying to win an internet battle by benching Trent for two straight years in "do or die" scenarios, this one is pretty open and shut....
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 01-13-2015 at 11:43 PM.

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  14. #61
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    To piggyback on that whole "tossing out Boom's three longest carries" thing: Isn't it a positive trait of running backs to have the ability to make big plays? Why treat those runs as though they are essentially flukes? Trent hasn't been able to fluke his way into anything longer than what, 27 yards?, in this three NFL seasons.

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  16. #62

    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    I think we all agree that if TR came into the NFL the same way Herron did the outrage wouldn't be as great. If Grigson had just admitted he screwed up then we could all relax somewhat. But as cdash says the more that is expected the more criticism. Yes TR shouldn't be blamed because Grigson paid dearly for the Brooklyn Bridge

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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    lose weight, try again, or gain weight and become a fullback, I think those are his only two options
    Why so SERIOUS

  18. #64
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    It wasn't Trent, Grigson coulda traded a 1st for ANY RB and I'd have called it stupid, including Peterson (pre-beating on kids), Lynch, McCoy, Murray, whoever, any of em. I remember me and cdash specifically calling it dumb as hell the minute it happened. RBs are simply not very important anymore, hell, short of the handful of offenses that still employ actual FBs they're pretty easily the least important offensive position.

    Trent sucks, that's a problem. Grigson apparently thinking any RB, let alone TRich, was worth a 1st is a massively bigger problem. I'm up and down on Pep and Pagano but them putting the ball in Luck's hands down the stretch the last two years when things got serious tells me they're working with tied hands in the regular season. Whoever our pass catcher scouts are promote them to GM as soon as our season ends, whenever it is. I wanted to adore Grigson man, guy's a Boilermaker, but he's just sincerely bad at his job.

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  20. #65
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Chuck Pagano explains Trent Richardson's benching
    253


    By Chris Wesseling
    Around the NFL Writer
    Published: Jan. 12, 2015 at 09:31 p.m. Updated: Jan. 13, 2015 at 12:02 p.m.
    Trent Richardson was a healthy scratch Sunday in the Indianapolis Colts' biggest game of the season.

    Explaining the decision to deactivate Richardson in favor of a running back signed off the street just last week, coach Chuck Pagano cited special teams experience.


    "Michael Hill was a special teams player and Trent -- it's not any knock on Trent -- but Trent's never been asked to be a special teams player," Pagano said Monday, via The Indianapolis Star. "He was doing everything for a period of time to try to get himself ready. But Michael was more ready to go out and be the third back and contribute on special teams."

    That makes sense. But it doesn't address Richardson losing the No. 2 job to Zurlon Tipton, a hybrid back with 10 career rushing attempts entering the postseason.

    With the season on the line, the Colts couldn't escape the plain fact that Richardson had been holding the offense back since the mid-season injuries to Ahmad Bradshaw and Reggie Wayne.

    Even for a player due $3.184 million in guaranteed salary, that bodes poorly for Richardson's chances of earning a spot on the final roster next summer.
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...dsons-benching
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  21. #66
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    It wasn't Trent, Grigson coulda traded a 1st for ANY RB and I'd have called it stupid, including Peterson (pre-beating on kids), Lynch, McCoy, Murray, whoever, any of em. I remember me and cdash specifically calling it dumb as hell the minute it happened. RBs are simply not very important anymore, hell, short of the handful of offenses that still employ actual FBs they're pretty easily the least important offensive position.

    Trent sucks, that's a problem. Grigson apparently thinking any RB, let alone TRich, was worth a 1st is a massively bigger problem. I'm up and down on Pep and Pagano but them putting the ball in Luck's hands down the stretch the last two years when things got serious tells me they're working with tied hands in the regular season. Whoever our pass catcher scouts are promote them to GM as soon as our season ends, whenever it is. I wanted to adore Grigson man, guy's a Boilermaker, but he's just sincerely bad at his job.
    You throw around "sucks" pretty loosely, man. I disagree that TRich sucks; I disagree that Grigson is "bad at his job". One, Grigson took a blown up team, and has rebuilt it quickly into a team that has made the playoffs every year he's been here, and has advanced further every year. So whether you like it or not, he's doing something right in the big picture. Grigson has done a damn good job; the only part of this team that I have issue with is the running game, and even then I'm not entirely sure it's all on Grigson. I still look a lot towards the offensive line and Pep. The line is the biggest reason for our failures in the running game, period point blank. Had this line been functioning anywhere near a normal level the past two years, I seriously doubt we'd be seeing Trent benched, and all of the *****ing surrounding that. TRich's highlight reel basically stops the moment he comes to the Colts. I don't think TRich (or any any of our backs) are used correctly. I mostly look towards Pep for that. Our running game has gone downhill ever since Pep entered the picture.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 01-14-2015 at 09:56 AM.
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'm not angry with him. I never was. It was never about him. Trent seems like a good dude who genuinely wants to help the team win. My anger has been directed at Grigson for making that stupid trade. That doesn't mean I'm going to simply give Richardson a pass on his complete lack of production though. It doesn't mean I'm going to make excuses for the guy for not producing. If that's irrational behavior, then you basically think every sports fan ever is irrational.
    You might be, but you're not someone that I've seen fill game threads with snide comments directed at Trent, for no good reason other than to poke.
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Who is saying that?
    Those who say that Boom has been prducing. So much so that 2.7ypc game is now a good game.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

  24. #69

    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Those who say that Boom has been prducing. So much so that 2.7ypc game is now a good game.
    Against a top tier defense where the average is lowered at the end to eat clock. 2.7 sure as hell ain't that bad.

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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    Against a top tier defense where the average is lowered at the end to eat clock. 2.7 sure as hell ain't that bad.
    Denver, on average, gives up 3.7yds per rush. So yeah, I'd say it's still squarely in the bad category.
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  26. #71

    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Denver, on average, gives up 3.7yds per rush. So yeah, I'd say it's still squarely in the bad category.
    He was averaging 3.4 the first 50 minutes of the game. So prior to us trying to run the clock out he wasn't that far from average.

    Since you have got to quit cherry picking Stats hoping desperately to prove that richardson and herron are similar. They aren't.

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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    So I'm cherry picking stats, I assume because I've said about 3 Boom's longest runs, and yet here you are trying to erase the last 10mins of the game? Nothing like whining about cherry picking and then doing the exact same thing.
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  28. #73
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    I would be interested to know what TRich's weight was when he entered the league versus his 2nd season, versus now. We have the rumor that there was a weigh in issue this past week, that may or may not have any basis in fact.... but we also had a game last season when we had a different announcing team (probably was a FOX game) and one of the announcers out of the blue started talking about Trent being a disappointment and then began to talk about weight issues. He was talking about explosiveness and how even a little extra weight could be harmful to a RB. So I wonder if he was noticing something, guessing, or possibly had someone in the organization say something?

    Whatever TRich's problem is, it goes way beyond the system or the line. He just doesn't look like an NFL RB at all. Let alone one that would be picked #3 overall only 3 years ago, or traded for a 1st round pick, and has had no known injury of significance to explain it.

    Admittedly, I didn't watch him when he was in Cleveland other than what we got to see on Sportscenter so I don't know when it became apparent there was a problem, but anyone (mostly) that has watched his Colts time has to admit he is extremely flawed as an NFL RB to the point that he looks like he will be out of the league within a year or two.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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  29. #74

    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So I'm cherry picking stats, I assume because I've said about 3 Boom's longest runs, and yet here you are trying to erase the last 10mins of the game? Nothing like whining about cherry picking and then doing the exact same thing.
    Except even your cherry picked stats still make trent look like crap.

    And I'd you want to hold booms stats against him on his running out the clock then fine. Just remember the drive was successful. Some trent rarely if ever could do

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  31. #75
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    Default Re: The Official Trent Richardson Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I would be interested to know what TRich's weight was when he entered the league versus his 2nd season, versus now. We have the rumor that there was a weigh in issue this past week, that may or may not have any basis in fact.... but we also had a game last season when we had a different announcing team (probably was a FOX game) and one of the announcers out of the blue started talking about Trent being a disappointment and then began to talk about weight issues. He was talking about explosiveness and how even a little extra weight could be harmful to a RB. So I wonder if he was noticing something, guessing, or possibly had someone in the organization say something?

    Whatever TRich's problem is, it goes way beyond the system or the line. He just doesn't look like an NFL RB at all. Let alone one that would be picked #3 overall only 3 years ago, or traded for a 1st round pick, and has had no known injury of significance to explain it.

    Admittedly, I didn't watch him when he was in Cleveland other than what we got to see on Sportscenter so I don't know when it became apparent there was a problem, but anyone (mostly) that has watched his Colts time has to admit he is extremely flawed as an NFL RB to the point that he looks like he will be out of the league within a year or two.
    And there it is. This is my problem with your stance --- it has never even seemed like you've taken one iota of effort to actually get a good bearing on this guy at all and yet you've developed in your mind the utmost resolve that he sucks and has never had what it takes, and that I take big issue with.

    Your snapshot of this guy is basically since he joined the Colts, and therefore, it is a limited snapshot.

    And even *you* have to admit that it's been a less-than-stellar situation for every back involved here. This team has borked the running game from top to bottom. You cannot even begin to argue that any back has come here and blossomed. What most of you deem as "success" in Colts running-game terms would qualify as mediocre production at best on most other teams and that may be largely because we've been conditioned by a terrible run game for basically the last decade.

    Trent has also been playing with injuries throughout his stint here, particularly in his legs, but has rarely not made himself available despite those injuries, nor has he complained or made excuses.

    This all plays into your view of him.

    I just said it yesterday --- go do a quick Google search of his highlights (that's about all we really have) but after you're watching that, you have *got* to admit that this guy has special qualities *in him* that he's capable of. Beyond what Boom or DBrown and even Ahmad can do. Here are a few just to get started:

    Here's his Alabama highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlwXtk90Ndk

    And here's his Cleveland highlights:


    His stint in Cleveland was a productive one, even if some of his numbers weren't amazing. Andrew Luck had a few non-amazing stat categories his rookie year, too. But there were plays that Trent produced where you went, "Wow, there are less than 5 guys in the league capable of making that move."

    Right now, those qualities are absolutely being quelled. I don't know why. Is it mental? Is it physical? Is it because our system sucks, or that he just doesn't matchup well with this particular system? I'm a big believer in "fit"... and it's entirely possible that we just aren't the right fit for him. The thing I take away is that the guy we see in those videos is nothing like what we've seen. Why? I can't figure it out. I do question very much if this coaching staff is maximizing his abilities, and based off all the other evidence in our running game, it's a likely factor... these guys suck at putting together a successful, consistent running game.

    But no, I absolutely do not agree with you that he's shown extreme flaws historically. He at one point in time showed some very, very good traits. Those traits stopped being evident in his tenure here with the Colts. The whole question is why, and can it be fixed. If he's a out of the league in a year or two, that is a damn shame, because we all would have been robbed of a helluva experience watching this guy at his full potential.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 01-14-2015 at 04:39 PM.

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