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Thread: Brian Cardinal

  1. #51

    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    It wasn't a good deal when it was made. Marc Gasol wasn't shopped around and like was said, his brother was a second rounder. I still think West's primary objective in that trade was to help the Lakers.

    Trades can't always be determined as who got the better end of the deal for years after the trade. What looked like a giveaway trade to the Lakers in reality has turned out to be quite good for Memphis.

  2. #52
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    The most asinine assumption of all is assuming that JERRY WEST was incapable of seeing something different in a potential trade than an average fan.

    It was a great trade. Arguing otherwise is just burying your head in the sand because you refuse to accept reality.

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  4. #53
    The Dude Abides MrSparko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    Do you believe half of the conspiracies you post BluenGold, or do you do it just to keep conversation going?
    Report: 82% Of Wiseguys Think They're Real Funny

  5. #54
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSparko View Post
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    Do you believe half of the conspiracies you post BluenGold, or do you do it just to keep conversation going?
    Read the thread. I am not suggesting there is some conspiracy. In fact, I highly doubt it.

    I'm arguing that the trade at the time was not some kind of brilliant deal where Jerry West could have known that it would turn out this good. KStat can think what he wants but he's also the guy who thought Allen Iverson was a good match for the Pistons. How did that turn out?

  6. #55
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    Apparently, the great Jerry West had nothing to do with the trade...so we can just throw his resume' out the window...or is this a conspiracy...lol:

    "Several sources close to the process insist West played no part, and Heisley swears, “Jerry didn’t know about the trade until after it was done.”"

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...leygasol060308
    Source: Yahoo

  7. #56
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    ... And there dies your claim that Jerry wanted to help out LA...

    No matter who made the deal, it was a great trade for Memphis.

  8. #57
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    ... And there dies your claim that Jerry wanted to help out LA....
    Not sure who "your" is but that was not my claim. Never said I thought that is what happened. I just agreed that it was plausible but had no idea whether it was true or not. BTW, notwithstanding that article, it is still possible...but again, I doubt it's true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    No matter who made the deal, it was a great trade for Memphis.
    Absolutely was a great trade for Memphis. Nobody should disagree with that. Even if Zach Randolph gets pulled into that criminal case, the trade is a decent one for Memphis. But none of that is relevant. It was still a questionable trade at the time and easily could have blown up in their faces. What they ended up getting was the best case scenario.

  9. #58
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    It was questionable at the time, which is why neither you or I am an NBA general manager.

    Obviously, it was a good trade for both teams. If they had traded Gasol to Minnesota for peanuts nobody would have thought twice about it. It's just anti-Laker bias stemming into another lame conspiracy theory.

    It's no different than the Pistons dealing a mid-1st round draft pick (Josh Smith) for Rasheed Wallace, who would have bolted from Atlanta in 3 months anyway. Yes, it was lopsided in the short term, but the Hawks have gotten the better end of it from 2008 on.
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-19-2011 at 07:51 AM.

  10. #59
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    It was questionable at the time, which is why neither you or I am an NBA general manager.

    Obviously, it was a good trade for both teams. If they had traded Gasol to Minnesota for peanuts nobody would have thought twice about it. It's just anti-Laker bias stemming into another lame conspiracy theory.
    I was with you until this part. I actually like the Lakers and truly believe it would have looked like a major give away. Imagine if Pau Gasol was coming to the Pacers and all we needed to give up is rights to a pick in the middle of the second round and Mike Dunleavy's expiring contract and maybe Brandon Rush. That's about what happened.

    Edit: with that said, it did look worse simply because the rich were just handed another bag of money while poor Memphis and their empty stadium lost their best player. It would have still gotten a lot of attention simply because he's an all-star center and the other team basically gave nothing for him.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 06-19-2011 at 08:02 AM.

  11. #60
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    I see no prospect the level of Marc Gasol in that deal.

    A comparable offer would be more like Hibbert, Lance Stephenson, two first rounders, and some expiring garbage.

    It should also be noted that Memphis turned the extra picks they got from LA into Grevis Vasquez and Darrell Arthur. That's 4 players from their 9-man 2011 playoff rotation acquired as a result of the Pau Gasol deal, including their entire freaking frontline, widely considered the best in the whole damn league. They turned one big man into three, plus a backup PG.
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-19-2011 at 08:10 AM.

  12. #61

    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    come on, let's not completely undersell his abilities
    I only meant average in the sense you figured when his senior season was done he was done as a basketball player and would never go on. According to Wekipedia here is what they say about his best year, his senior year.

    "Cardinal played his last collegiate season with career season highs with 203 rebounds and 13.9 points a game. The Second Team All-Big Ten selection helped lead the Boilmakers to an Elite 8 appearance in 2000 during his Senior year and to a 2410 record."

    Unless a guy is 7' tall most of us figure a guy with those stats while decent enough is not going to make it in the NBA. He was not a great athlete, could not jump out of the gym, not quick, in many ways nothing special and he was in that awkward in between stage in height--a small big man (6'8") too slow for a small forward, not big enough or gifted enough for a power forward, cannot play guard, is not a great shooter, so what do you do with him? He did not have a lot of natural gifts. He did have this--drive and grit. Kind of a Tyler Hansbrough type of trait and that alone will take you a long ways. He would give you a fight over the basketball and block out.

    However, my original post was a congratulations type post to a guy I enjoyed watching play in college and who exceeded by far most people's expectations. As I said, he has an amazing story to tell for a guy that had the limitations he had and yet overcame them.

  13. #62
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Actually Kerosene was one of the original three admins. Gnome, Buck, Able, Chicago J & myself all came later.
    He was one of the original four admins, as was I.

    Just couldn't hack it, I guess (me, not him).
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  14. #63
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    She, like myself, like's their coach.
    For the life of me, Peck, I can't come up with a plausible explanation for that apostrophe.
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  15. #64
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I see no prospect the level of Marc Gasol in that deal.

    A comparable offer would be more like Hibbert, Lance Stephenson, two first rounders, and some expiring garbage.
    Hibbert went in the middle of the first round. M. Gasol in the middle of the second round. The league obviously didn't value Marc Gasol as much early on so I wouldn't say this is a good comparison. Lance skews the discussion because he's a first round pick who fell to the second due to baggage. The two #25-30 picks you might get from the Lakers I guess are worth something...but it still doesn't add up. It all boils down to getting a pile of dime-a-dozen bench players for an all-star C.

    BTW, imagine if AJ Price started for the Pacers at C, averaged 13-14ppg, 9 boards and shot 55% from the field. I doubt anyone would have expected that.

  16. #65
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brian Cardinal

    You can't put Marc Gasol's value in a vacuum like that. It's silly. He wasn't coming over from Spain in 2007 and everyone knew it, and that killed his draft stock. He proceeded to blossom as a player after he was drafted by LA< which made him into a much more valuable commodity than an average 2nd round pick.

    Lance=Crittenton, hence why i placed him in the deal. A talented knucklehead PG whose team used him as a sweetener. Don't care where he was drafted.

    They made good on both picks. They obviously knew what they were doing.

    In hindsight, they turned Pau Gasol into Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph, Darrell Arthur and Grevis Vasquez. Good luck convincing anyone that's not as good a deal as they were going to get.
    Last edited by Kstat; 06-19-2011 at 08:42 AM.

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