It's that time of year again!
Popular opinion doesn't prove anything. But this probably does: LBJ has outperformed every other player in the NBA in the last 5 minutes of a game when the game is within 5 points. That is a fact that cannot be disputed.
EDIT - Oh wait...you're asking about Players not on the Pacers roster.
I'll go with Lebron. He's a total mismatch for the entire NBA.
I cannot believe that this is even in question......:laugh:
this is actually worse than, "Is Brandon Rush a consistent 3 point threat" thread.
Lebron gets so much **** for not taking the last second shot, when 90% of the time, he is making the right basketball play. And in the last 5 minutes, there is no better player than LeBron to rely on. He can do it all.
vnzla, if you really would take Joe Johnson in the last 5 minutes of the game over LeBron James, I am never going to take another word you say seriously. Even Skip Bayless would take LeBron over JJ.
Once again TraderJoe is trying to get all the attention, I guess I'm going to open a thread anytime I disagree with somebody so the other people can make me feel better by giving me a pat on the back :rolleyes:
Either way here are the 2011-2012 clutch numbers: http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
1 - Irving
2- Melo (the one who many here think Danny is equal to :lmao:)
5- Westbrook (the one that many here think is a choker)
8- Monta Ellis ( yes that guy)
10- Joe Johnson
and Danny is rated 14th, so just because somebody prefers a player over another player in crunch time doesn't mean that that player is better than the other player or is so ridiculous that somebody has to open a new thread to try to ridicule that other person, great try TJ and big fail in your part.
LeBron has become a great player down the stretch, but he had to learn that from DWade...
Here is also a nice article that explains JJ's numbers in "clutch time"(five minutes or less with less than five points)
Piggybacking off of Tom Haberstroh's Twitter Timeline, we checkout NBA.com Advanced Stats to look at how clutch Joe Johnson has been so far this year.
My uneducated guess before looking? Seems like Joe has been better because the end of games have been less forced and multiple folks getting the ball later, though it hasn't ignored Joe either. Not every possession goes into Iso-Joe, making the times that he does slightly more effective. Or does it?
What did we find? (Hint: click that link to see the data for yourself)
This season, so far, Joe Johnson has indeed been clutch.
Clutch, as defined by NBA.com, is player performance in the last five minutes of games when the score margin is within five points.
For Joe, everything in the scoring area has gone up, from traditional shooting percentage (49 percent from 43) to all advanced metrics, Joe improves in the last five minutes of games.
His usage goes up, from 27 percent to 36 percent and his offensive rating increases also (113.8 from 101.8), without any incline in defensive rating (96.5 from 96.7), leaving his net efficiency even higher in the clutch.
Turnovers down, as is everything that is not associated with scoring -- apparently clutch time is Joe's time with the ball as rebounding and assist rate drop as his scoring/offensive efficiency increase.
So Joe's been clutch this season -- how does he compare to last season, a noted down year for Joe? Well, he was not as clutch as this year -- his shooting percentages all around went down and usage went up to the same level as this season, though his +/- and overall efficiency margin improved.
Even if he is taking approximately the same amount per 36 minutes (18.8 this season to 19.2 last), maybe he is taking better shots in the clutch than last season, because he is making more (9.1 vs 6.7). Though consider also that he is making more threes this year than last, likely making everything look better.
Looking deeper into the stats, we see that compared to last year Joe is getting more clutch minutes per "clutch game played", presumably because the Hawks are locked in more tight games late, including overtimes games. To date, Joe has played 67 clutch minutes in 12 games compared to 107 clutch minutes in 34 games last season.
As far as location stats, Joe is actually shooting slightly fewer shots from mid-range and closer in clutch time than last season (72% last season to 66% this season), but more successful this season (52% this season to 37% last season).
Exit Question: What do you think -- do the stats lie regarding Joe? Or is he -- gasp! -- clutch?
LBJ: "Oh yeah?? Ok! Good idea!"
*LBJ players better*
LBJ has put up MUCH better stats in late games in Cleveland than he has in Miami. I'd argue Wade hurt LBJ because the media pulled a narrative out of their *** that suggested Wade was better in late games than LBJ.
I want Deron Williams.
Also look at more of those stats. You have highlighted points scored only. So they shoot pretty similarly. LeBron scores more in the last 5 mins. LeBron scores more on his own in the last 5 mins. LeBron rebounds at a way higher rate in the last 5 mins. LeBron dishes way more assists in the last 5 mins. LeBron blocks way more shots in the last 5 mins. Lebron gets more steals in the last 5 mins.
What i see is one player that is far superior on both offense and defense in the last 5 mins of the game. Lebron is that player.
You are quoted in the OP saying you would take JJ over LeBron in the clutch. I don't care what the other argument was about. Thats what we are discussing in this thread.
This one was on the playoffs two months ago, remember the game where he choked and Lance was doing the sign?
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I even went back and read the thread where this started. I don't see how it helps your point at all. All you sound like is Skip Bayless by calling him LeChoke. Thats not a good thing btw.
This is what you always do. This is why people jump on you. You make an outlandish claim like saying JJ is better than LeBron in the clutch (and then provide stats to prove your point except they prove that LeBron is far superior...). Then you go on to twist your argument into something else and blame others for doing so. The entire thread was trying to get back to talking about clutch performances while you were dodging. This all happens often.
Scared? LBJ didn't play scared when he scored 29 points straight against Detroit. The only time LBJ ever really played bad was the 10-11 Finals. An anomaly. That same playoffs the series prior he dominated the leagues MVP by himself.
The whole "LBJ isn't clutch" was always an absurd ridiculous narrative that had absolutely no evidence in support of it.