Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments


    Flyover.
    The B2 Bomber turns after the flyover.



    Balloons! Release the balloons! More balloons! Balloons!


    Alex Lloyd in pits.


    Graham Rahal pits early in the race. At one point Graham's crew told him he'd just ran the fastest lap in the race and had the car to beat.


    Will Power returns to the pits missing a left rear wheel. There was a problem with the left rear tire change but apparently Power (or whoever releases him on the team) didn't get the memo and so pulled out and quickly saw his left rear spin off and go bouncing down pitwall. AFAIK, that didn't earn him a penalty except for the track position he lost returning to the pits for a replacement cost him.


    Contender Scott Dixon


    Tony Kanaan's crew has to pull Kanaan back into his pit stall after being blocked by an exiting Pippa Mann (who was pitted behind Kanaan).


    Penske driver Ryan Briscoe leaves the pits on the way to a disappointing finish (especially by Penske standards).


    Closeup of Kanaan in the pits.


    Eventual 2nd place finisher JR Hildebrand. Little did we know the drama that would later unfold with this car.


    Another photo of the Graham Rahal entry. Rahal was with the Ganassi '2nd team'. He ended up with a very respectable 3rd place finish making him the highest finishing Ganassi driver.


    Eventual winner Dan Wheldon pits.


    Tomas Scheckter's car certainly looked fast.


    Scheckter's sponsor, Redline Energy drink, did provide some support for the team...


    Ryan Hunter-Reay in his Andretti-Foyt car provided some pre-race week drama and controversy with his replacing the original driver of the #41 car when his own car was bumped from the field... by his teammate...



    Pole sitter Alex Tagliani


    Dan Wheldon pulls into the pits as the winner of the 2011 Indy 500.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  • #2
    Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

    Congrats to Dan Wheldon. Great month and great ending to the month for him.

    Even with the condensed May schedule Indiana and Mother Nature can still team up to give us the weirdest weather imaginable. You want cool, even cold conditions? Check... had that this month. Want rain? Yip. Wind? Yip. Clouds? Yip. Sun? Yip? .... And finally sweltering heat and himidity? Yip. The only thing missing was some snow.

    Does anyone have a guess what has happened to Team Penske at the 500? Has the limited schedule (let alone the Indiana weather limiting even further) exposed a flaw in the Penske race and qualifying preparation? Penske has ran 3 cars in the past without spreading himself too thin but then maybe there were more $$$ for those multi-car teams. I have no idea. Gonna need to think about this one. Of course Penske has missed the boat before so maybe this is just a fluke year or two for Penske at Indy. But it's hard to say Penske is spreading himself too thin with 3 cars when Ganassi has managed to create 2 teams with 4 cars.

    Ganassi needs to have someone from the Indiana Weights and Measurements Dept check his fuel pumps.... At least the Team Target ones...

    Speaking of fuel mileage.... It's two years in a row now where fuel conservation has tried to play a factor in the race. It worked last year for Dario. ...Not so well for Mike Conway when he ran over the slowing Hunter-Reay. This year- Was Kimball driving extra slow to conserve fuel? Clearly, Dario and Dixon were fuel conscious. I'm glad the fast running Dan Wheldon won running full out instead of someone driving 10MPH off the pace and holding on for the win. So is this just a fluke thing or has fuel mileage, fuel cell regulations, and race distance conspired to bubble this strategy to the top? Or is it just a thing that has had some success so it's been monkey see-monkey do? I mean, if everyone is on some fuel conservation run then it evens out but that doesn't make for what makes racing exciting. Seeing it once in a great while with one team or car is one thing... and can be dramatic.... but seeing several cars playing that game kinda sucks IMHO. And it gets dangerous too (ask Mike Conway what happens when someone runs out of fuel in front of you while you're trying to run the real race pace).

    I assume doing away with the fuel mixture knob was supposed to address this... but to me it seems worse than before now.

    And the push to pass HP boost is a moot point when the cars are running on fumes and won't use the button anyway.

    So does Indycar need to look at something (a change in fuel cell size perhaps?) to minimize this strategy being a regular issue? Is it more a factor of tires that can now outlast the fuel in the tank?

    Double file restarts- Much ado about nothing. It did keep the field more packed for a lap or two. And for all the talk the drivers had about not wanting it why were they going 3 and 4 wide?? I would've been fine without them at Indy and road courses.

    The start of the race. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the 3 abreast parade lap something making a reappearance?? I was thinking at some point the cars quit doing that and didn't line up 3 abreast until the backstretch of the last pace lap before going green. The start looked sloppier in person than it did on TV. I'm not really sure what happened. It looked like Tagliani started to go, hesitated, and then got caught napping while Dixon just took off. ...But I thought they were accelerating before where they were supposed to for the start to begin with. But maybe that changed in the same compromise about the go zone for the 2 wide restarts on Sat and the media never got and/or disseminated the message.

    As I said in the other thread, Barnhart's comments about the ending and the rule interpretations used don't make a whole lot of sense. What happened made sense to the fans because basically, they saw Wheldon clearly pass before the yellow light came on. Then Hildebrand slide across 2nd. But then later comments contradict that. That's not really why Wheldon's pass counted and why he won if we listen to what was said by officials. OK. Someone needs to have an internal meeting and clear up exactly what the rules are in a similar scenario. What was ultimately said would mean even if Hildebrand had managed to slide across the line before Wheldon passed him Hildebrand still would not have been declared the winner. But to follow the logic in that (wounded car, caused yellow, not drivable, etc) then how do you award him 2nd place??? This stuff isn't brain surgery... Just find a clear rule and stick with it.

    To say simply the yellow wouldn't matter because you're always allowed to pass a wrecked car leaves some scenarios open. For one thing, you don't race back to the line under yellow. You're supposed to slow under yellow and maintain your position. So while you clearly can pass a wrecked car, can you 'race' a sliding wreck? What if it's the last lap and a car is limping back under yellow with a broken suspension? If they can maintain "pace speed" can you still just go ahead and pass them because they are wrecked? Just close the loopholes and make sure everyone knows the rules. It doesn't matter what they are so much as it matters that they are clear to everyone.

    The crowd was great yesterday. It's hard to say whether there were truly more seats filled than last year though. I wonder if scalpers snapped up tickets this year increasing sales for the track, then sold those tickets since they helped create a supply and demand issue plus the extra buzz for the 100th anniversary, but ultimately ended up with the same # of people in the seats. But I can't see the infield from my seats or T2 or T3. I can see the lower level seats behind pitlane at the early pits. I still say paint those seats differently and make them general admission seats. It's going to be a tough sell ever selling those seats again IMHO. That would allow some infield people to fill those... and more room possibly on the infield viewing mounds as some of those people take these seats. Heck, sell those seats CHEAPER than gen admission. Or else just do away with them entirely... make them vendor areas...
    Last edited by Bball; 05-30-2011, 06:49 PM.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

      On a related note to the audio crew at IMS.... Speaking of not brain surgery...

      Gain structure is your friend. Know your signal flow and keep your gain structure in check. There may be a 100 things out of your control... but proper gain structure is not one of them. Does no one at the facility not really understand what is happening many times with the distortion and how to fix it???
      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

      ------

      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

      -John Wooden

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        Does anyone have a guess what has happened to Team Penske at the 500?
        A guess, and that's all it is, would be a combination of everyone else closing the gap as far as doing the little things that Penske has always done to get and edge at the Speedway and the fact that there are very few secrets left in a ten year old chassis. Some examples of little things used to be extreme attention to fit and finish of the body work and having logos painted on rather than decals because of the drag induced by the microscopic raised edges of the decals. True.

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        Ganassi needs to have someone from the Indiana Weights and Measurements Dept check his fuel pumps.... At least the Team Target ones.
        This is a very interesting situation. There is obviously a problem with the metering or a problem with the pump they used to "pump out" the fuel cell in the garage. Very suprising that after qualifying they didn't replace EVERYTHING including the fuel cells.

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        Speaking of fuel mileage.... It's two years in a row now where fuel conservation has tried to play a factor in the race. It worked last year for Dario. ...Not so well for Mike Conway when he ran over the slowing Hunter-Reay. This year- Was Kimball driving extra slow to conserve fuel?
        By all reports, Kimball was out and coasting.

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        I assume doing away with the fuel mixture knob was supposed to address this... but to me it seems worse than before now.
        Here's the inherent problem. Fuel is weight. Engineers hate, Hate, HATE extra weight. The perfect engineering solution is to have the car run bone dry the second it crosses the finish line (less whatever is required by Indycar for post race inspection). It would not matter if you had a 200 gallon tank if the engineer decides you only need X ammount of fuel to finish the race, you as the fuel guy are only going to put in X ammount (delivered in seconds of flow, you have someone screaming in your ear to unplug after the calculated time). Now, here's the fun part...There are so many variables in the fuel system it is not nearly as exact as the guys on the war wagon would wish. The fuel pump may not pick it all up, the cell might not be pumped out all the way, there could be a sticky vent, you get the idea...You only have to watch them chew their fingernails once sweating out fuel to decide, whenever possible, to always put a little extra in. Obviously, during a full fuel run, that's not an issue. Were talking here about not needing a full bag. We didn't hot refuel in the pits due to our race length, and had to have 1 liter to pump out at the end, so after the first couple of times of sweating it out (including a support race win at the Indy F1 race) I always put an extra 1/2 to 3/4 gallon in...

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        And the push to pass HP boost is a moot point when the cars are running on fumes and won't use the button anyway.
        Absolutely right.

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        So does Indycar need to look at something (a change in fuel cell size perhaps?) to minimize this strategy being a regular issue? Is it more a factor of tires that can now outlast the fuel in the tank?
        See above. You can't make them fill 'er up...Tires are very good and will, in most cases, outlast a tank of fuel easily.

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        Double file restarts- Much ado about nothing. It did keep the field more packed for a lap or two. And for all the talk the drivers had about not wanting it why were they going 3 and 4 wide?? I would've been fine without them at Indy and road courses.
        Agreed. Much ado about nothing. It does require the drivers to keep the dumba$$ gene under control, but the aggressive ones that know how to race are going to benifit on ovals. I don't think it gets you much on most road courses and definately not on street circuits.

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        The start of the race. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the 3 abreast parade lap something making a reappearance?? I was thinking at some point the cars quit doing that and didn't line up 3 abreast until the backstretch of the last pace lap before going green. The start looked sloppier in person than it did on TV. I'm not really sure what happened. It looked like Tagliani started to go, hesitated, and then got caught napping while Dixon just took off. ...But I thought they were accelerating before where they were supposed to for the start to begin with. But maybe that changed in the same compromise about the go zone for the 2 wide restarts on Sat and the media never got and/or disseminated the message.
        You may thank The Great Brian B for the demise of that tradition, because despite the lip service given to it, he doesn't give a damn about it. When was the last time it was enforced? When was the last time they waved off a start because of the raggedy a$$ed lineup?

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        As I said in the other thread, Barnhart's comments about the ending and the rule interpretations used don't make a whole lot of sense. What happened made sense to the fans because basically, they saw Wheldon clearly pass before the yellow light came on. Then Hildebrand slide across 2nd. But then later comments contradict that. That's not really why Wheldon's pass counted and why he won if we listen to what was said by officials. OK. Someone needs to have an internal meeting and clear up exactly what the rules are in a similar scenario. What was ultimately said would mean even if Hildebrand had managed to slide across the line before Wheldon passed him Hildebrand still would not have been declared the winner. But to follow the logic in that (wounded car, caused yellow, not drivable, etc) then how do you award him 2nd place??? This stuff isn't brain surgery... Just find a clear rule and stick with it.
        It has something to do with the car that caused the yellow, the moon cycle and the ammount of potato salad left in the pagoda after half distance...They didn't do themselves any favors trying to "explain" their decision...

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        To say simply the yellow wouldn't matter because you're always allowed to pass a wrecked car leaves some scenarios open. For one thing, you don't race back to the line under yellow. You're supposed to slow under yellow and maintain your position. So while you clearly can pass a wrecked car, can you 'race' a sliding wreck? What if it's the last lap and a car is limping back under yellow with a broken suspension? If they can maintain "pace speed" can you still just go ahead and pass them because they are wrecked? Just close the loopholes and make sure everyone knows the rules. It doesn't matter what they are so much as it matters that they are clear to everyone.
        Not sure how the Indycar rule book reads on that one. The USAC book, if I remember right, has to do with whether or not the car causing the caution is still mobile. As in if a car spins and causes a caution, the cars behind cannot pass once the yellow is waved. Cars that pass before the caution, good to go. UNLESS THE CAR STALLS!!! The the car is stopped on track and everyone can pass and it falls to the tail of the running order. How they make the determination that a car with 2 wheels off is ambulatory or not, I don't know, but he was still moving and crossed the line under his own power. I suspect a magic 8 ball was involved...

        Originally posted by Bball View Post
        The crowd was great yesterday. It's hard to say whether there were truly more seats filled than last year though. I wonder if scalpers snapped up tickets this year increasing sales for the track, then sold those tickets since they helped create a supply and demand issue plus the extra buzz for the 100th anniversary, but ultimately ended up with the same # of people in the seats. But I can't see the infield from my seats or T2 or T3. I can see the lower level seats behind pitlane at the early pits. I still say paint those seats differently and make them general admission seats. It's going to be a tough sell ever selling those seats again IMHO. That would allow some infield people to fill those... and more room possibly on the infield viewing mounds as some of those people take these seats. Heck, sell those seats CHEAPER than gen admission. Or else just do away with them entirely... make them vendor areas...
        Lot of folks said it was the biggest since 95. RMiller said the scalpers said they were actually selling seats this year! I agree the lower seats are very bad and that's a great idea for using them or taking them out. We made the mistake of sitting there one year for the neck car race and could see about six inches of roof going by...
        http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
        "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

          I think we just saw something that has become a proven fact, rarely does the guy with the best car win the race. Due to differences between race day and qualifying as well as fuel strategies, I thought the best cars all day were Rahal, Danica, and even Marco for a stretch. Not to say that Wheldon didn't have a good car, just that I thought he and Hildebrand both benefited more from fuel strategy than car performance.


          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

            Too bad Sheckter didn't win, that would have netted me $500

            "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

              Originally posted by DaveP63 View Post
              You may thank The Great Brian B for the demise of that tradition, because despite the lip service given to it, he doesn't give a damn about it. When was the last time it was enforced? When was the last time they waved off a start because of the raggedy a$$ed lineup?
              Two years ago. Helio was on the pole and got such a large jump at the start they waved it off. But I do agree, if Barnhart really does care, he could start fining drivers.
              "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

              "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

                Also, was Kimball the guy that was so slow in turn 4 on the last lap that Hildebrand had to pass? Because IMO, he owes Hildebrand an apology, if you're gonna go through a turn that slow and you have the leader coming up on you, you should be taking the high line and let the leader have the low line.


                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

                  Yes, Kimball was the car that JR tried to pass in 4.
                  "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

                  "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

                    Originally posted by Sandman21 View Post
                    Yes, Kimball was the car that JR tried to pass in 4.
                    Then he totally blew it IMO.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

                      Oh indeed did he blow it. The real irony is I could see JR getting Charlie's seat in a few years. Charlie is a Ganassi driver. 3 of Chip's 4 guys led the race at some point, guess who didn't.
                      "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

                      "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

                        2 more thoughts that I intended to include and forgot about...

                        I'd be perfectly fine with bringing the apron back and allowing drivers to use it during the race. That adds an extra groove to the track (so would give slower cars the ability to pull down really low for one thing). ....That said....another thought... Maybe the black flag needs to fly when cars start slowing down 10-15-20MPH off the pace to conserve fuel?

                        Also... what was up with the wave around timing? I'm sure at least a couple of times the waved around cars didn't have time to catch the field before it went green. ...and if they did later it was only because they had to smash the gas to do it.
                        Last edited by Bball; 05-31-2011, 12:16 PM.
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

                          Anyone notice the Pacers logo on Hildebrand's car?

                          Maybe that was the cause of his bad luck.
                          "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

                          -Lance Stephenson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

                            Originally posted by Bball View Post
                            2 more thoughts that I intended to include and forgot about...

                            I'd be perfectly fine with bringing the apron back and allowing drivers to use it during the race. That adds an extra groove to the track (so would give slower cars the ability to pull down really low for one thing). ....That said....another thought... Maybe the black flag needs to fly when cars start slowing down 10-15-20MPH off the pace to conserve fuel?

                            Also... what was up with the wave around timing? I'm sure at least a couple of times the waved around cars didn't have time to catch the field before it went green. ...and if they did later it was only because they had to smash the gas to do it.
                            Apron? Hell yes. It would help eliminate the terror from the two wide restarts. But, and it's a big one, that's IMS's call. Not Indycar. That means you have to deal with TG who allowed it to be done away with in the first place...The answer to your other two questions are...wait for it...RACE CONTROL. That's right, TGBB makes the call on the "maintain a competitive speed" and who get's the wave around. He was probably too busy screaming at somebody to worry about some trivial item like who gets the wave around I don't know if you can do it, but if you ever get the chance to listen in to the race control frequency, it can be quite enlightening...
                            http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
                            "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bball's 2011 Indy500 pics and comments

                              IIRC one of the reasons given for removal of the apron was the angle drivers would hit the wall if losing control on the apron. This would've been based on the era when the driver's legs and feet were much more forward than they are these days in the car. With the SAFER barrier and design of the cars these days it might actually be safer if the apron was returned giving cars a couple of lines thru the corners as well as some margin of error (particularly with double-file restarts).

                              I do have the ability to listen to race control but I usually avoid it. I'm not a fan of The Great Brian Barnhart. I have no idea how he's managed to stay on with IMS/Indycar thru all these changes. Even if I thought he was doing great, I'd agree that a change needs made just for PR and perception reasons. But since I think he's got a vision vastly counter to my own for Indycar racing and Indy.... as well as I question his credentials and ability... then color me confused how he has held onto his job thru all this time and even regime change.
                              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                              ------

                              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                              -John Wooden

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X