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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Anybody here had Lasik?

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  • Anybody here had Lasik?

    I'm considering getting Lasik surgery as my eyes are starting to reject contacts and I despise wearing glasses.

    Anyone here had Lasik? And, if so, was it a good experience. Any recommendations for doctors in Indy?

  • #2
    Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

    I had it and LOVED IT!

    My docotor ws down here in Charlotte.

    The surgery is essentially painless. Its quick, and very easy.

    I think there's several thread son here that I talk about it. I'll see if I can find them and link them here.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

      Gyron, what's the story after you walk out post-"operation"? What do you have to do before you're back to normal? Isn't there a phase where you take drops and/or keep shades on?

      Also, do/did you have an astigmatism? Did Lasik treat that as well? Also, what happens if/when your eyes' prescription changes?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

        Since I've been doing a tad bit of research I can probably answer a couple of those questions . . .

        1) Only mild discomfort post-op, like an eyelash in your eye. You're supposed to rest once you get home, but in most cases you are fine the very next day, although it can be a couple of weeks until your vision is perfect.

        2) You take some drops after surgery, then rest.

        3) Lasik will treat astigmatism.

        4) When they do your evaluation, you are supposed to have the same prescription for at least 1 or 2 years, be over 18 years old, etc...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

          I talked to my eye doctor about getting it since I can't wear contacts and my glasses are annoying. He said that since I am near sighted that eventually I would have to get reading glasses if I had the surgury due to how it corrects for the near sightedness. Not sure if he was correct, but I decided not to go any further with it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

            I haven't had time to link back to the other thread yet, but let me answer Mal's questions to the best of my knowledge.

            1. You walk out post operation with some heavy duty shades on, doped up on some valium. They want you to go home and go to sleep for a few hours. It allows your eyes time to heal. You will be wearing what they call BCL's(bandage contact lenses). In most cases they will take those off in 1-2 days. They are just clear lenses that assist in the healing of the eyes. You can drive about 2-3 days later. Although I will tell you for approx 2-3 weeks afterwards, you are sensitive to bright lights, especially at night.

            So headlights coming at you always seemed to hurt my eyes during that time period. You may also experience starbursts around lights at night and what they call ghosting during the day and night. Essentially you see a ghost twin image next to things that are really bright colored like the white reflective lines on the road. But all of those symptoms are gone within 2-3 weeks or sooner depending on the person.

            When they sit you up out of the chair, your sight is tremendously better. I went from 20/100 to 20/40 immediately after the surgery, then as your eyes heal over the next 2-6 months your eyesight continues to get better. After 1 month I was at 20/30 and after 3 months I was 20/20.

            3 years later, I am still a perfect 20/20.

            2. As for drops in your eyes, you will do special eye drops for about a week and then for a couple months you will uses the "preservative free" eye drops you buy at the store. I could never do eye drops before my surgery, but you learn quickly when you have to do that, and as a matter of fact, I think those preservative free eye drops feel great on my eyes now. But nothing difficult with the drops. The ones you do for about a week are to help the healing of the flap.

            3. I had a slight astigmatism and it is corrected now. Lasik did treat that.

            4. As for your prescrition changes, essentially the way they doctor explained it to me is candidates for the surgery have gotten to where there prescription changes have slowed down, thats why most teenagers are not candidates for the program because their body is still growing and changing.

            However to explain how Lasik works, it reshapes your cornea, which corrects the prescription. When your eyes change shape thats what causes the need for glasses. So to my understanding, once your eye is reshaped you shouldn't need the surgery again.

            He did however tell me that this will not eliminate the need for "readers" when you get to an onlder age(he gave 45-55 as an example). There is a surgery that corrects that as well, but nothing can be done to stop the aging of the eyes at this point.

            All in all, its really a painless surgery and has been an absolutely awesome thing for me. I wore glasses for 13 years and never could do the contact thing. It feels so great to be free of glasses now.

            Just like Jayredd gaining his freedom from his Superman underroo's after all these years.
            Last edited by Gyron; 11-05-2007, 06:01 PM.

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            • #7
              Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

              I'm considering this surgery when I get home. What is the ballpark price for this?
              The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

                Figure around $2K, better if you have a company flex plan where you can do it tax free.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

                  Thanks for all of the solid information, Gyron!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

                    Got it in 2002. Best tax-deductible $1500 I've spent.

                    I got it done on a Friday afternoon, and was back at work Monday. I actually had to leave early that day due to headaches, but that's because I was copy-proofing small printed text against HTML on a screen. So basically the single worst thing for your eyes. But by the end of the week I was totally fine.

                    The funny thing was that the doctor said "Now after the surgery you may notice starbursts at night, or ghosting in certain circumstances, or decreased night vision." And I was shocked and asked "You mean everybody doesn't get those?" With Lasik, the starbursts are WAY better than before, the ghosting disappeared after a month, and my night vision is BETTER than before. Just shows how bad my eyes were.

                    Funny story: they give you a valium to keep you calm, since they're cutting the front off your eyeball and shooting a frikking laser beam into it. Three of us were in the waiting room, and they gave all three of us the Valium at the same time. And then she looks at me and says "let's go" while the pill was still sliding down my esophagus. And I went in and did the surgery, absolutely petrified. They were so fast that they got the whole thing done before the Valium even kicked in. So it actually went into effect after I got out of surgery. My wife came in and I slurred "They gave me Valium... but I don't feel a thing!" as I just about fell out of the chair.

                    Eh, you had to be there.
                    This space for rent.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

                      The actual surgery....no kidding....90 seconds per eye.

                      Its over so quick you don't even realize they are done.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

                        Wait, they cut you AND use a laser? I thought it was all with the laser? Do they start with a blade?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

                          Originally posted by Mal View Post
                          Wait, they cut you AND use a laser? I thought it was all with the laser? Do they start with a blade?
                          I didn't have it done...but my wife did. I was actually able to watch it...not hovering over teh doctor's shoulder...but they had it up on the monitor. They basically do cut a sliver off the top of the eye...they don't cut it all the way off...just enough so they can peel it back. Then it looks like "Windows" on the computer monitor. They select your name and your eye...and then before you know it...rat a tat tat...and the lasers do their thing...next they smooth the "flap" from earlier back older, and then it is off to the next eye.
                          When you're playing against a stacked deck, compete even harder. Show the world how much you'll fight for the winners circle. If you do, someday the cellophane will crackle off a fresh pack, one that belongs to you, and the cards will be stacked in your favor.
                          -Pat Riley

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                          • #14
                            Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

                            There's two ways of cutting the flap. With a blade, or with a laser.

                            Here's what my doctor told me.

                            The cutting with the laser over the blade is advertised as better at preventing infection, and supposedly a cleaner cut. However, he said in the studies, the reduction in chance for infection was less than 1/10th of 1%. In addition, he said the cut from the laser over the blade heals no differently one over the other. And if you go to a clinic that is "blade free", you are typically going to pay probably double the price per eye.

                            Here's something else most of those clinics will not tell you.

                            And I'll tell you this before I explain, my doctor makes his living off of all kinds of eye surgery, so cataracts, trauma, etc. So he isn't dependant on solely doing lasik like a mass production factory for the money.

                            Essentially everytime they turn the laser on the machine, they pay a liscensing fee. The fee is no different for any prescription, no matter how bad. So he charges the same price per eye no matter what your prescription. I paid $800 per eye, but I think he's at $900 and eye now.
                            Most lasik clinics are going to charge you by your prescription, so the worse your prescription, the higher the charge. My docotr explained to me that its essentially a scam to make more more money by charging by the prescription. So thats something to ask when you go to the clinics. Do they charge you a flat fee per eye or do they charge by the prescription. I think you will find out most of the clinics that charge by the prescription are the mass surgery, churn'em out as quickly as possible to make more money.

                            I went to one like that in Charlotte before I found the place I ended up getting the surgery done at. No kidding at the mass lasik place, I saw 11 people, including a "finance and payment specialist" before the doctor ever saw me. And the doctor was literally in the room with me less than 2 minutes. There was no way in hell I was having the eye surgery with him. To be honest, I had such a bad experience in that place, if I hadn't found Dr. Grayson in Charlotte, I probably wound;t have had the surgery done. My wife talked me into giving another doctor a shot at a free evaluation and see what he had to say. I'm glad I did, Dr. Grayson was completely up front with me, and answered all of my questions himself, and spent a good 20 minutes in the room with me talking about the surgery. And he only left when I felt like I had all of my questions answered.

                            I have referred 6 other people to Dr. Grayson since then and they all had the surgery with him and all had great experiences. If you can find a doctor that isn't solely dependant on lasik, you will probably find a better eye surgeon for the lasik. Someone that isn't just burning and chruning them out.
                            Last edited by Gyron; 11-07-2007, 09:41 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Anybody here had Lasik?

                              In the old thread I talked about my sister, who was borderline legally blind before this procedure. She still says it was the single greatest thing to ever happen to her. She still cries at sunsets because she can see them.

                              Fear over something touching your eyeball is natural, but in the big picture is kind of silly.

                              The money you will save on eye care over 5-10 years is far greater than the cost of the procedure.

                              There's no reason not to get it done beyond not having the money for it, or being told that it won't help your vision.
                              “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

                              “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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