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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Question about a new car

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  • Question about a new car

    Hey all,

    I should be starting my new job in the next couple of weeks, and one of the big things I am saving for is a new car.

    The first car I ever drove was a Acura 3.2TL and I love any and all acuras I have driven.

    I currently drive a Subaru Outback limited, and it has really treated me well (minus some problems with the sunroof as of late, which is after 10 years of owning the car)

    I have not test driven any cars yet, but I do know that I am looking at the Toyota Camry (hybrid), Honda Civic (the only thing I dislike is it does not have the push button start), and the Acura TSX.

    My cousin works for Lexus, and she claims she can get me a great deal, but I have not seen any cars I loved from them.

    I am not sure if I want to buy a hybrid, but my parents think I should go that route.

    I am hoping to pay cash for as much as possible so I plan on waiting probably 6 months before I buy, but I want to start looking now.

    Have any of you purchased a new car lately? Any advice you can give for a first time buyer?

    Thanks for your help

  • #2
    Re: Question about a new car

    I just bought a new car...Nissan Altima. I highly recommend it, and it's about the same class as the other cars you're looking at. It drives really smooth, it's comfortable, and just drives great. Give it a test drive.

    Plus it has a push button start.

    I test drove a 2010 Civic and didn't really like it. Before my Altima, I had a Civic, and I loved it. I was not impressed with the newer model.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Question about a new car

      If your looking at hybrids and want one that looks like a car (i.e. not a prius) seriously look at the Ford Fusion hybrid. There is a reason it won car of the year.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Question about a new car

        I can vouch for the Altima as well. It's a nice car.

        As for the hybrid thing, what's your main reason for wanting one? Less spent on gas? Help the planet? Look sexy?
        This space for rent.

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        • #5
          Re: Question about a new car

          I own a 2005 Nissan Altima, had it since it was new and it has been a great car, plan to keep it until it starts falling apart.

          I would recommend buying a 2 year old car, buying a brand new car doesn't make the most financial sense. Even though I know the allure of a brand new car

          But paying cash is the way to go, no matter what you buy

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Question about a new car

            I agree with Buck on the 2 year old car, and you shouldn't take that lightly because I think it's just about the first time I've ever agreed with him on anything.

            I know a new car is awfully attractive, but let me throw some math at you. If you take care of your car, meaning regular maintenance, tires, oil changes and whatnot, 150k miles should be easily attainable. Now, let's say you buy a new car, not a fancy one, a mid level car with some bells and whistles but not loaded out. You'll pay in the neighborhood of $25k for it. Maybe you have a trade or some cash so let's call it $22k that you are financing. Current auto loan rates are coming in at 4% unless you have great credit and qualify for the 0% financing at the dealer which they don't tell you that 95% of people do NOT qualify for. So, $22k, financed at 3.99% for 60 months works out to $405 per month. For the first 24 months of this loan you are going to pay out $9,720 in payments. If this car is your daily driver you will likely have in the neighborhood of 40k miles on it at that time. You go to trade it in and you still owe $15k on a car that you can't sell for $10k. Let's say you are rich and it doesn't matter, you trade it anyway and either make up the difference in cash or roll it onto your next auto loan (which is an INCREDIBLY bad idea). Here's where I'm going to hit you with the math that will make you feel uneasy about a new car. In effect, you have paid $10k for 40k miles of that car, and if you rolled the difference into your next loan you really paid more, plus interest. The guy that buys it from the trade in is going to pay $12k for the next 110k miles, or whatever the car has left. The farther it goes, the better the deal for him. If he finances that 12k for 4 years with the same rate, it's $270 a month, and he has it paid off only one year after the original loan would have paid off and is saving $135 a month and $1620 a year over what you were paying. New cars just do NOT make sense in this economy. I told my wife, the only way she's getting a brand new car is if she enters a contest. It ain't happening.
            Last edited by travmil; 05-18-2010, 09:27 AM.

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            • #7
              Re: Question about a new car

              The owner of my company has taught me a valuable lesson. We both drive Cadillacs. His philosophy is, you buy it new and pay $50,000 to drive it the first 60,000 miles and then I'll buy it and drive it the next 60,000 miles for $10,000. It's a lesson I've learned to live by. I bought mine used for $10,800, it had 61,000 miles on it. Now, 2.5 years later it has 150,600 miles on it and the only reason it isn't still perfect is the wreck I had last summer. You have to be patient and wait for the right car tho. The one you want at the price you are willing to pay.
              Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

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              • #8
                Re: Question about a new car

                Okay to actually address one of the cars you mentioned. I've driven a TSX before from the dealer has a loaner car, and it was very nice. Much nicer than a civic or a camry, not as loose and fun as my RSX, but the luxury was there to offset it. Really the TSX is a great blend of Performance and luxury. Even the 4 cyclinder had some nice power to it. The K series engines from Honda are very reliable and have alot of power and a higher rev range than most cars, and get good gas mileage. My RSX revs up to 8100RPMs, and just sounds sick. The K series have great HP to Liter ratio. My RSX is about 100:1 for 200 HP, it is a 2 liter engine. The TSX is 2.4 liter and is listed at 200 HP, but has more Torque available in the lower RPM range. Really good car, I'd recommend it.

                Of course you get even more power with the V-6 but I have soft spot for supped up 4 bangers.

                All Acuras run on Premium, but you probably already knew that.
                Last edited by graphic-er; 05-18-2010, 12:58 PM.
                You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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                • #9
                  Re: Question about a new car

                  Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                  I own a 2005 Nissan Altima, had it since it was new and it has been a great car, plan to keep it until it starts falling apart.
                  I drive a 1995 Altima. Clearly one of us is compensating for something...
                  This is the darkest timeline.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Question about a new car

                    You can't go wrong with Honda/Acura

                    my situation:

                    2003 Honda Pilot: 205,000 miles, never had a problem (the family car, wife & 3 kids)
                    1993 Acura Integra: 170,000 miles with no problems until I totalled it

                    replaced the Integra with a:
                    2005 Honda CRV: 60,000 miles so far with no problems

                    Before this, in my lifetime I have had 5 different American cars, none of which survived past 100,000 miles

                    I financed the last two cars I bought, both new, though I made a hefty cash downpayment that permitted 3-year financing. The cars are long-lived enough, though, that I hope to eventually replace them both with "nearly new" low mileage cars, with cash.

                    But I am in no hurry to replace either Honda, even the one with 205K miles, despite the relative lack of bells and whistles like push-button starters, built-in navagation, built-in entertainment, etc.

                    Frankly I can't see paying for a built-in DVD player as a $750 option when I can hand the kids a portable DVD player, splitters, and multiple headphones for under $100 total.

                    If you do buy new, check the prices of those options that you don't need, and make sure that you define what "need" actually means.
                    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

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                    • #11
                      Re: Question about a new car

                      Also, don't forget about Hyundai cars as well. They are very well rated, and have awesome warranties. I drove a Sonata before, and it drives really nicely. Elantra is also a good smaller car.
                      Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Question about a new car

                        Go with a bicycle!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Question about a new car

                          Hyundai Genesis Coupe with the turbo 4 cylinder is full of WIN. One of the best bang for your buck cars available today. It will out perform any of the cars you're looking at and still get good gas mileage. It's awesome.

                          Hyundai IMO is much stronger right now than toyota and honda/acura, who have gotten really lazy lately.


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                          • #14
                            Re: Question about a new car

                            Originally posted by sweabs View Post
                            Go with a bicycle!

                            Thanks Al.
                            Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Question about a new car

                              Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                              I can vouch for the Altima as well. It's a nice car.

                              As for the hybrid thing, what's your main reason for wanting one? Less spent on gas? Help the planet? Look sexy?
                              Honestly if I go that route it will be because of savings on gas

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