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Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

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  • Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

    Originally posted by Rotoworld
    The NFL is investigating the Colts for allegedly piping in crowd noise for their game Sunday.
    The Patriots wouldn't be the first team to accuse the Colts of this. The crowd noise sounded like it started to skip on CBS, and the league wants to know if it was just a television issue. The story may have legs considering observers at the game reportedly heard the problem, even if it ruins Greg Easterbrook's "Good vs. Evil II" column.
    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...103911&id=1544

    This is the sound in question:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHQTcFQEMXo

    This is strange for a few reasons:
    Nantz and Simms were commenting on how awesome the Indy fans are to keep the noise up for so long during the games and be so quiet when Manning is on the field...but a good crowd can do that.

    It sounded like something (a sound clip or something) was caught looping or something and then quickly faded out. I thought it might have been then broadcast (CBS's fault) but Nantz was calling the play and he sounded fine at the time. It was really, really, really strange.

    People are saying in the youtube comments they were at the game and it sounded fine and this was a CBS problem. But if it was in fact a CBS problem with their on field sound feed why did Nantz sound fine through it? Usually sound problems broadcast side involve resetting ALL the feeds when one loops or screws up. Had one of CBS's on field mics malfunctioned they most likely would have reset everything including commentator feed. This never happened which is a strong indication this may not have been a CBS sound error.
    Last edited by Moses; 11-05-2007, 01:36 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

    Nantz and the crowd noise would be on separate audio feeds. If you notice, right before the error it was on the verge of becoming hard to hear Nantz and whoever. The CBS techies were probably trying to filter out some of the noise and something glitched.

    And yeah, we're quiet because everyone knows GD well to be quiet so Peyton can audible at the line properly.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

      From the RATS megathread

      "Here is an analysis from an audio engineer of what he heard:

      "I'm a live audio engineer. This was NOT a broadcast thing. This is my perception of what happened. I posted this on the Pat's group on Usenet. This is a cut and paste.

      The Colts have microphones placed in locations around the stadium. They are probably somewhere in the domed ceiling. They would be directional shotgun mics and aimed at the crowd. They would be best aimed at the top half of the seating so as not to pick up any field noise. When the opposing team is on offense and before the play starts when the QB is calling signals, the house, (Colt's), engineer turns up these mics and feeds them through the stadium's sound system. This is much better than pre-recorded crowd noise because it is a perfect audible match to the environment and there are no recordings of crowd noise to get busted with.

      What happened tonight was the engineer turned up the mics too much. This caused the mics to pick up the sound eminating from the stadiums sound system, (the amplified crowd noise), as well as the natural crowd noise. The result is a feedback loop. As this loop continues to cycle through the mics and speakers oscillation occurs. This was described as the skipping sound. At this point the feedback is full bandwidth. This means that all of the frequencies being reproduced by the system were present in the loop. If you listen carefully to the recording you will hear a midrange frequency starting to become predominant. It sounded like something between 600hz and 800hz was starting to take off. At this point the engineer became aware of his error and shut off the mics. That was the abrupt drop in volume that is also on the recording on the PFT site.

      If this was an accident with one of the ref's mics, field noise would have been pumped through the system such as player's voices. So I don't think that this a possibility anymore.

      I'm practically positive that the Colts were up to no good. Any audio engineer with a half of brain will recognize that sound. That includes the multitude of engineers on NFL payroll. I doubt anything will come of it. It would be a massive scandal for the league's pretty boy team and a member of the CC. We'll see what Goodell is made of now. He'd have to have the stadium physically inspected and chances are that the mics are removed after any games. What is good is that Goodell and others will now be listening more intently and this may be enough to make Polian back off and stop using them. IMO the Colts are cheaters.""


      ----

      I'm still doubtful (and this came from a Pats fan, I think) but this guy seems to a least know what he's talking about.

      Still, I find it hard to believe that it could have been that loud and not heard by the people at the game. If it really did happen, then it was softer there than suggested by the TV recordings (not saying that's good, or anything.)

      Why does he back out of his argument about, though? If the NFL was man enough to make a scandal out of the Pats, they'd do it to the Colts. And how does some random sound engineer know so much about the NFL?

      I will say this: if the skipping sound wasn't as loud in reality as it seemed to be on the TV recordings, then, yeah, maybe it happened. But you can pretty much rule out the idea that some kind of sound as loud as the TV would have you think was coming thru the speakers--THAT would have been heard by many people, and I'm 100% sure of it.

      edit: rats megathread link: http://www2.indystar.com/forums/show...=212841&page=7
      You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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      • #4
        Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

        someone on the youtube thread said this: "that sound has nothing to do with the Colts pumping in "crowd noise". if anyone watched the NFL Today broadcast at 1pm on CBS, it was doing the same thing while playing highlight clips."

        There have been mixed reports about what the radio feeds caught. Most seem to say they noticed nothing, but a few claim there's something. (Admittedly, those saying that could very likely be trolls...)
        You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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        • #5
          Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

          LOL at your live audio engineer.

          He's right about what an audio feedback loop is.

          He's very wrong about it not being a broadcast problem - or at least it not possibly being a broadcast problem.

          I don't know a ton about major TV broadcasts but I do know they filter sound (or else there would be times when you absolutely couldn't even hear announcers). The feedback could have been caused by a screwup with the CBS equalizer, filter, or a even someone pulling a headset lead out of a sound board by mistake - or setting a live headset down next to a mike.

          Generally any halfway decent sound system will have automatic anti-feedback filters - you couldn't get a feedback if you tried, no matter how loud you turn up the volume.

          And the other is a problem with a satellite feed where an oscillation results. I know less about this but apparently you can get a wave oscillation - the satellite has to pick up very (relatively) weak signals through the use of a dish, concentrates them within the dish and then re-filters and modulates the signal before re-distributing it to local stations.

          Lots of chances for the signal to bounce around and create loops there.

          Our IHETS dish used to get screwed up and developed a feedback loop whenever we got a wet, heavy snow - or even if a couple of leaves blew in and got stuck in the dish. Didn't usually sound like what happened during the broadcast (normally it was a distortion which resulted in nothing since the signal quality was below what the system was designed to accept) but no reason why it couldn't have.

          Was a pain because we were always crawling on the roof to clean the friggin' thing off - was never so happy as when they started broadcasting over broadband.

          Anyway - what this audio engineer is describing is certainly legit - but it's by no means the only explanation. Any part of the process where any of half a dozen things go wrong - where the system was receiving the same signal it was trying to broadcast - could result in the same effect.
          The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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          • #6
            Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

            We'll see what happens. Really disappointing if this is true. Though I doubt it.


            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

              Colts would be really stupid to pipe in crowd noise. - There is no need

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

                Originally posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
                LOL at your live audio engineer.

                He's right about what an audio feedback loop is.

                He's very wrong about it not being a broadcast problem - or at least it not possibly being a broadcast problem.
                Yeah, I was sort of wondering about that. I mean, that's sort of the BIG question that everyone needs answered, and he just dismissed it w/o any reasoning.
                You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

                  newsday.com says the Colts have been cleared:

                  http://www.newsday.com/sports/footba...,7199775.story
                  The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

                    Originally posted by Rotoworld
                    The NFL issued a statement Monday regarding artificial crowd nose that Jonathan Kraft, son of Patriots owner Bob Kraft, alleges was pumped into the RCA Dome during Sunday's New England-Indianapolis game.
                    "CBS has informed us that the unusual audio moment heard by fans during the Patriots-Colts telecast was the result of tape feedback in the CBS production truck and was isolated to the CBS broadcast," the statement from league spokesman Greg Aiello reads. "It was in no way related to any sound within the stadium and could not be heard in the stadium."
                    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...rt=NFL&id=1544

                    And there you have it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

                      Yah! Hurrah for that.

                      Now the question is, what prompted Kraft et al. to accuse us? Do you think they actually heard something that they thought was fake noise, or did they act after seeing a clip of the CBS feed? Hmm.

                      Oh well. I think we can rest assured that the Colts don't cheat--or, at the very least, haven't yet been caught.

                      edit: BTW, Moses, am I still pretending that the sound didn't happen?
                      You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

                        Thank you CBS for quickly putting that crap to rest.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

                          Thanks to the two of you for posting those links. A lesser man might've wanted to forget the conversation once the Colts were cleared of wrongdoing...Now to take on those a$$holes who posted comments with that youtube video....(kidding...I realized they are mostly moronic, but I can't deny that reading that stuff about my beloved Colts didn't hurt a little bit...)



                          RESIDENT COUNTING THREAD PHILOSOPHIZER

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                          • #14
                            Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

                            Now that the Colts have been cleared, that should be a que for Jonathan Kraft to find better things to do with his time.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Colts being investigated for piping crowd noise

                              Originally posted by heywoode View Post
                              Thanks to the two of you for posting those links. A lesser man might've wanted to forget the conversation once the Colts were cleared of wrongdoing...Now to take on those a$$holes who posted comments with that youtube video....(kidding...I realized they are mostly moronic, but I can't deny that reading that stuff about my beloved Colts didn't hurt a little bit...)
                              99% percent of youtube comments (on any video, not just the Colts) are way off the wall. It's insane. If you want to hear the least thought-out and most illogical opinion someone can have on an issue, find a video of it and check our the youtube comments. It'll usually be there. Kinda strange.
                              You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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