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Colts setting example for the Pacers

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  • Colts setting example for the Pacers

    Colts have taken over this town because they play for championships not just playoffs. You cannot get there without a franchise player. The Pacers have Paul George but is he a franchise player. You win with talent in the NBA. It is proven over and over. Stars shine brightest win the bright lights are on. It makes no sense at all to be all wrapped up in trying to make it to the eight playoff spot this year. We need to do what the Colts did when Peyton was injured look to the future. We have got to get more talent, more athletic and improve our team speed or we are going nowhere. This team is going to look alot different next year anyway. We are starting to see why people were down on Copeland, Miles and Stuckey. They have their moments but just never sustain anything. These last 2 games were embarrassing and you can tell by the post game thread people are really getting tired of watching this up and down never know what your going to get group. I know injuries have hurt but is there anyone on this roster you can depend on for big numbers consistently. If we can't build thru free agency then we have to get better in the draft. We need a high lottery pick to use as an asset in a trade or to draft a talented young player. Paul George returning next year to this group will not be enough there is just not enough there.

  • #2
    Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

    Now all the Pacers need is the #1 draft pick, along with once in a decade talent there to take. Easy-peasy.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

      We need more talent I agree, and West's decline has a been a huge hit. He is so inconsistent now. Unfortunately, there is not an easy fix like go 2-14 automatically get the number 1 pick and draft someone like Andrew Luck.

      I agree with your overall idea that the team needs to be focused on reloading for next year, but I also think Bird will do it his way, and I have faith that he will do it correctly.

      I like having Paul, I like having George Hill, and I still think Roy is a keeper if we build the right lineup around him. Pacers have a good management group, an experienced owner, and a coach I like as well so I am not worrying too much about the future simply because I think all of those guys will have it covered. Pacers will have a top half draft pick, some money to spend, loads of experience for Solomon Hill and Lavoy Allen and a returning Paul George heading into this offseason.

      This year sucks huge donkey balls from an injury standpoint. There's no way around it, but it's not like we're locked into a ton of horrible 4 year deals. Miles is really the only contract you could say is "too long" right now and even then I think he will be an OK addition for this team as a 7th type man next year.

      I don't know I am still very bullish on the Pacers potential this offseason. I think West will retire and open up a large chunk of spending money for us. Cope's deal comes off as well along with Scola, Watson, Sloan, Lavoy and Stuckey. Pacers could have about $24 million to spend this summer. Some of that will go towards re-signing Lavoy and probably some of it will go towards retaining Sloan or Watson, but then after that, you could have around $16-17 million left to absorb a player from another team or to possibly get in on a free agent. The Pacers salary structure has actually granted them a lot of flexibility going forward.

      I believe we will go into next season with a roster centered around Paul George that will be easily top 4 in the East. There will be some new talent there. Whether it comes from a trade, the draft, or free agency I don't know, but I do like that the Pacers could potentially utilize all three avenues to improve. It is why I am not necessarily over concerned about where we pick this year.


      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

        I always kind of bristle when we get into the Colts vs Pacers comparisons. I don't think they apply.

        So Colts play for championships, not just the playoffs. Don;t you have to win multiple playoff games in order to get to the championships. I guess I don't understand your overall point. I mean yes you need talent in the NBA. Who doesn't know that?

        Colts were not trying to lose games in their horrible season.

        I am sure the pacers are looking to the future.

        If PG comes back 100% healthy, we are fine. He is a star player. He allows us to build around him.

        An aside: I do wonder how many Hawks fans have discussed completely rebuilding over the past two years. I am sure a large number have and look at them now.
        Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-12-2015, 04:04 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

          I mean didn't the Pacers set the example for the Colts for like 10 years too? I hate when we try to pit the two main franchises of the city against one another. Varvel, the lame *** cartoonist for the Star, does this all the freaking time.


          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

            Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
            We need more talent I agree, and West's decline has a been a huge hit. He is so inconsistent now. Unfortunately, there is not an easy fix like go 2-14 automatically get the number 1 pick and draft someone like Andrew Luck.

            I agree with your overall idea that the team needs to be focused on reloading for next year, but I also think Bird will do it his way, and I have faith that he will do it correctly.

            I like having Paul, I like having George Hill, and I still think Roy is a keeper if we build the right lineup around him. Pacers have a good management group, an experienced owner, and a coach I like as well so I am not worrying too much about the future simply because I think all of those guys will have it covered. Pacers will have a top half draft pick, some money to spend, loads of experience for Solomon Hill and Lavoy Allen and a returning Paul George heading into this offseason.

            This year sucks huge donkey balls from an injury standpoint. There's no way around it, but it's not like we're locked into a ton of horrible 4 year deals. Miles is really the only contract you could say is "too long" right now and even then I think he will be an OK addition for this team as a 7th type man next year.

            I don't know I am still very bullish on the Pacers potential this offseason. I think West will retire and open up a large chunk of spending money for us. Cope's deal comes off as well along with Scola, Watson, Sloan, Lavoy and Stuckey. Pacers could have about $24 million to spend this summer. Some of that will go towards re-signing Lavoy and probably some of it will go towards retaining Sloan or Watson, but then after that, you could have around $16-17 million left to absorb a player from another team or to possibly get in on a free agent. The Pacers salary structure has actually granted them a lot of flexibility going forward.

            I believe we will go into next season with a roster centered around Paul George that will be easily top 4 in the East. There will be some new talent there. Whether it comes from a trade, the draft, or free agency I don't know, but I do like that the Pacers could potentially utilize all three avenues to improve. It is why I am not necessarily over concerned about where we pick this year.
            Fair enough and I don't necessarily disagree with you. I am not saying at all that we need to get Andrew Luck like talent, I am saying we need to upgrade our talent level significantly and you might be able to do that with a top pick thru trade or just getting a really talented new guy. Then you can look to free agency and other methods to upgrade as well. I just don't see where just making the playoffs will do anything more than maybe get Solo some experience. That is not enough. I do not think West will retire and leave $12 million on the table so I say look to move him now before his value goes down even more. He might be able to help a contender now but if we still struggle and he still declines or loses interest we could be stuck with him. Move on, he is not in the future anyway.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

              Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
              I always kind of bristle when we get into the Colts vs Pacers comparisons. I don't think they apply.

              So Colts play for championships, not just the playoffs. Don;t you have to win multiple playoff games in order to get to the championships. I guess I don't understand your overall point. I mean yes you need talent in the NBA. Who doesn't know that?

              Colts were not trying to lose games in their horrible season.

              I am sure the pacers are looking to the future.

              If PG comes back 100% healthy, we are fine. He is a star player. He allows us to build around him.

              An aside: I do wonder how many Hawks fans have discussed completely rebuilding over the past two years. I am sure a large number have and look at them now.
              The Colts were trying to lose back in 2011. Their starting QB was Curtis Painter for several games. Tanking defined
              Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

                Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                I mean didn't the Pacers set the example for the Colts for like 10 years too? I hate when we try to pit the two main franchises of the city against one another. Varvel, the lame *** cartoonist for the Star, does this all the freaking time.
                No I don't see where the Pacers did that at all 10 years ago but my memory is not that good. I am not at all trying to pit our 2 franchises against one another. What I am suggesting is that the Colts model works in this city. You need that guy who everyone believes in, who makes everyone around him better. They also have an aggressive owner and front office who appear willing to do whatever it takes to get it done. Their owner although he has made some serious mistakes is visible to the fans and is passionate about his team and franchise. This city is in love with the Colts and like it or not the Pacers are competing with them for that dollar. I would like to see our FO out there more and interact with its fans. How many interviews you seen from Bird this year? You never hear from Simon and if you do it is just fluff. JMO

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

                  Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                  Now all the Pacers need is the #1 draft pick, along with once in a decade talent there to take. Easy-peasy.
                  I will reply to you even though it is useless. That is not what I mean't or said at all. Most who actually read the post, put some thought into it and try to understand an opposing point of view for once will understand it is just an opinion and an opinion shared by many many people.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

                    Originally posted by doctor-h View Post
                    Colts have taken over this town because they play for championships not just playoffs. You cannot get there without a franchise player. The Pacers have Paul George but is he a franchise player. You win with talent in the NBA. It is proven over and over. Stars shine brightest win the bright lights are on. It makes no sense at all to be all wrapped up in trying to make it to the eight playoff spot this year. We need to do what the Colts did when Peyton was injured look to the future. We have got to get more talent, more athletic and improve our team speed or we are going nowhere. This team is going to look alot different next year anyway. We are starting to see why people were down on Copeland, Miles and Stuckey. They have their moments but just never sustain anything. These last 2 games were embarrassing and you can tell by the post game thread people are really getting tired of watching this up and down never know what your going to get group. I know injuries have hurt but is there anyone on this roster you can depend on for big numbers consistently. If we can't build thru free agency then we have to get better in the draft. We need a high lottery pick to use as an asset in a trade or to draft a talented young player. Paul George returning next year to this group will not be enough there is just not enough there.
                    Nice to see the Colts already beat the Patriots, here I thought they still had to play two games to make this god-awful point.
                    Last edited by TinManJoshua; 01-12-2015, 04:42 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

                      Trying to compare the NFL and NBA in the context of one city is absurd. The Broncos, for example, were only relevant because Peyton Manning, the Lebron James of football, agreed to sign there. Lebron himself is never going to sign with the Nuggets because NBA free agency is entirely different. The chances of the Colts getting Andrew Luck if the NFL had the NBA's drafting system would have only been 25%. Sure, you can say well they would have gotten the second pick, but that caveat really matters when you consider Luck's NFL career relative to RG3.

                      The NFL is a much more egalitarian league because there is no lottery and elite players are willing to sign with cities in smaller markets or have colder weather. It is an entirely different beast than the NBA.
                      Last edited by idioteque; 01-12-2015, 04:38 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

                        Here is one of my problems. Trader Joe said it very well, West's decline has been a huge hit. Yes it has but it was so predictable, it started last year so to think somehow he was going to come in here this year and be different is ridiculous. Now his value has declined even more as has our team's play. Him being an asset is getting less all the time. Move him while we can to gain something. We have overvalued his contribution and we will pay for it if it goes on much longer.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

                          Originally posted by doctor-h View Post
                          I will reply to you even though it is useless. That is not what I mean't or said at all. Most who actually read the post, put some thought into it and try to understand an opposing point of view for once will understand it is just an opinion and an opinion shared by many many people.
                          I didn't say that's what you meant or said. My statement was about the reality of how the Colts turned it around.

                          Andrew Luck is how the Colts have turned it around. And unless the Pacers have the chance to draft the equivalant of Luck, the rest of it is just fodder.
                          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

                            Originally posted by doctor-h View Post
                            Here is one of my problems. Trader Joe said it very well, West's decline has been a huge hit. Yes it has but it was so predictable, it started last year so to think somehow he was going to come in here this year and be different is ridiculous. Now his value has declined even more as has our team's play. Him being an asset is getting less all the time. Move him while we can to gain something. We have overvalued his contribution and we will pay for it if it goes on much longer.

                            well if he is as bad as you are saying, then we won't get very much. I don't think he's as bad as you are suggesting, he looked pretty good Saturday night.

                            I have no problem with him here next season. He can still score when we often need some scoring.

                            Colts basically went from Jordan to Lebron James in 1 season.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Colts setting example for the Pacers

                              I agree with where Dr H is coming from, but it is much more difficult to build an NBA team than an NFL team. In the NFL, as long as you have a top shelf QB, then your team will make the playoffs every single year. The NFL playoffs are like march madness, where any team could get hot and win the championship. The best team rarely wins the SB. Basically, as long as you have an elite QB, you have a chance in winning a SB every single season.

                              NBA is different, because one player isn't enough to win a championship. You really need 1 elite player, and 2 other players close to the elite level. Paul George is elite, but nobody else on the roster is close to his level. David West looks the part at times, but he is slow and lacks explosion. The draft is the best place to find another elite player to pair with PG. However, the NBA draft is full of unproven players, and you really don't know what you are getting anymore with the high draft picks
                              Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

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