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Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

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  • Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

    i hinted at this in a different thread but...

    one thing i've been struggling with since the summer (when i first started conceptualizing tinsley trades) is who would want tinlsey.

    from my perspective here are the teams that may be in the market for a PG:

    CLEVELAND ... damon jones / eric snow / david wesley isn't cutting it, they need a higher caliber PG if they want to move to the next level. they've been shopping jones for a while and now it sounds like they may be shopping hughes as well.

    ATLANTA ... lue and claxton aren't starting PGs. they need a vet. PG floor leader to guide all of the young talent they have. joe johnson desperately needs help too.

    WASHINGTON (backup upgrade) ... im not even sure if wizard fans know who backs up gilbert. they could be looking to improve in that position. i think daniels usually plays PG when Gil is out so they'll probably just stick with developing the young guy they've got.

    PHOENIX (backup upgrade) ... banks is widely considered the worst FA signing of last season. granted, right now barbosa is subbing for nash at PG, i watched the Spurs game and banks played a plenty of minutes so they still need help. and the suns are also aware of how nash has crapped out during playoff time so they might be looking more than we may realize for a PG that can truly backup nash.

    LAKERS ? ... I'm not sure if Phil Jackson is totally thrilled with Smush as his starting PG but he's also recently said that Farmar is barely ready for the NBA much less starting. the lakers could be in the market to upgrade.

    MINNESOTA ? ... so far mike james has been a disappointment, troy hudson is injury prone and beyond his starting prime. jaric isn't a pure PG and has had trade rumors surrounding him for a little while now. i think the wolves have a talented nucleus with hassell, davis and blount (obviously KG needs no mention) and a more solid playmaker is what could be needed.

    TORONTO ? ... this was mentioned in a different trade thread, as i mentioned there, i'm not sure why they do this apart from maybe wanting experience on this team of so many young developing players.

    SEATTLE ? ... ridenour has fallen out of favor. earl watson isn't the most consistent of starting PGs, Sonics could be looking to upgrade.

    MIAMI ? ... most likely looking to upgrade. williams has been injured. payton is old and suspended.

    NEW YORK ... SHOULD be upgrading the PG position to get someone who can pass. who knows though...

    NEW JERSEY ... Kidd sounds like he's being shopped. but marcus williams has looked fairly good thus far for the nets. so maybe they're looking for a solid backup.




    which teams strike me as likely trading partners? well i've always thought that Jamaal would like the idea of playing in NY and Isaiah would probably want him back. they desperately need a PG who can create offense, and regardless what most of PacerNation says, Tinsley is Steve Nash compared to Starbury.

    another team, and i know this is odd, i think would leap at the opportunity could be the Cavs. i know you typically hate to trade within division, but much like the bulls with a front-court scorer, i get the feeling that the Cavs would jump at the opportunity to get a true PG next to Lebron.



    NOW... what is it that we need?

    i think we need a PG that better suits our team. not sure who that is. calderon is a nice thought. i tend to like arroyo (of PGs that are attainable). i think we need a playmaker ho can score if need be but would rather pass and get the offense flowing.

    we also need a shooter. someone reliable ala peja or reggie. not necessarily someone of that type of salary ... so maybe a steve kerr comparison would be better. maybe we just need another scorer, a true #2 option. because danny had a few good games post-trade but has really kinda disappeared since. maybe he's not ready to be that guy night in and night out.

    i also wonder if we need help in the front court in someone different than harrison.

    we also could use 2007/future draft picks... always good to have on hand.



    so i guess... taking all of that into account... how do we successfully trade tinsley and also get what we need in return?

    any thoughts about any of my rambling?
    This is the darkest timeline.

  • #2
    Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

    Like many people in here have said it is highly unlikely that we trade Tinsley without Trading O'Neal at the same time, so who in the world would want both. The only thing I could see happening is IF TPTB decide they want to part ways with JO at the end of the year than we send JO to Boston with Tinsley for the first Pick + Pierce + Rondo that would give us either Durant/Pierce or Odin/Pierce and that would free up time for Ike to develop. I would be willing to bet that we could get the job done because for some reason the Celtics media/doc/ainge have always been huge on Tinsley if they could get their hands on JO I think they'd pull the trigger before they realize what happened.

    Only thing is we would be deadly thin at the point guard position if we were to start Rondo and he got injured Darrel could not play no 30 + minutes a night which would leave us with Dunleavy or Marquise Running the point. And I don't care much for that scenario.

    I could roll with this lineup

    1st Unit

    PG - Rondo
    SG - Pierce
    SF - Granger
    PF - Diogu
    C - Odin


    2nd Unit

    PG - Armstrong (considering he stays)
    SG - Marquis
    SF - Williams
    PF - Murphy
    C - Foster

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

      This Trade Succeeded! Go back to adjust your trade or start over.
      Indiana Pacers



      Incoming Players
      Jason Williams
      Salary: $8,250,000 Years Remaining: 2
      PTS: 10.2 REB: 2.3 AST: 5.1 PER: 15.21
      Jason Kapono
      Salary: $1,188,000 Years Remaining: 1
      PTS: 10.9 REB: 2.4 AST: 1.1 PER: 14.89

      Outgoing Players: Marquis Daniels, Jamaal Tinsley
      Miami Heat



      Incoming Players
      Marquis Daniels
      Salary: $5,883,600 Years Remaining: 3
      PTS: 6.0 REB: 1.6 AST: 1.3 PER: 10.12
      Jamaal Tinsley
      Salary: $5,850,000 Years Remaining: 5
      PTS: 13.4 REB: 3.4 AST: 6.4 PER: 15.92

      Outgoing Players: Jason Williams, Jason Kapono

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

        im not a fan of the rondo/pierce/pick deal because i find it unlikely to happen. also never been a rondo fan, but the the other two components i like.

        the miami deal... i don't think jwilliams is the same guy he used to be but it could be worth it to get kapono, i've been impressed with him thus far. but i almost think the heat are also fairly impressed and want to hang on to him and may even be willing to hang on to williams.

        i read on hoopshype today that nate robinson may be on the market (which makes NYK a more serious thought). i was thinking about the knicks roster and the suns roster and trying to put together a trade with either team and wasn't really happy with what i was ending up with. so i decided to try a 3-way and this is the trade i came up with... it's probably going to need a little explanation


        NEW YORK OUT: Malik Rose, Nate Robinson, Jerome James
        NEW YORK IN: Jamaal Tinsley, Jeff Foster, Markus Banks

        PHOENIX OUT: Kurt Thomas, Jumaine Jones, Pat Burke, 2007 #1
        PHOENIX IN: Nate Robinson, Jerome James, David Harrison

        INDIANA OUT: Jamaal Tinsley, Jeff Foster, David Harrison
        INDIANA IN: Kurt Thomas, Jumaine Jones, Malik Rose, PHX #1 2007



        okay... i think the biggest challenge would be PHX being willing to do it. but i think this offer may be enticing enough to them (getting rid of banks and getting a legit backup for Nash PLUS getting more production in the front court in harrison and thomas).

        new york is wanting to move james and robinson. thomas as i recall was always a tinsley and foster fan and foster would be appealing because eddy curry and defense don't really work together. so they need a defensive big man to play with curry and frye (if they're going to keep frye). tinsley gives them a legit PG.

        indiana does it to A) move tinsley along B) get some experienced team guys that are willing to do the dirty work C) get a #1 2007 draft pick. PHX has 5 or 6 picks i believe in this years draft (a few first rounders from cleveland and boston) and since they really don't have many holes in their lineup they're not going to need to use the draft to rebuild. plus they might be willing to part with a pick if they are getting a younger frontcourt to backup amare and marion and then a legit backup PG.

        i personally think jones is fairly underrated and the suns aren't using him at all. granted it does cause more of a logjam at the SF area, but i guess i'm also thinking in terms of off-season moves. then we'll have rose, who is a work horse, a little over-paid but would be willing to do the dirty work, same with thomas. and they all have 2 years or less left on their deals (making excellent trading fodder).

        after this trade our lineup would look like...

        ARMSTRONG / MCLEOD / GREENE
        GRANGER / DANIELS / MARSHALL
        DUNLEAVY / JONES / WILLIAMS
        ONEAL / DIOGU / ROSE / BASTON
        MURPHY / THOMAS

        now i think that is a fairly thin front court with murphy and thomas but we could also play more of Baston and Rose and Diogu to not leave them on the floor as long.

        ultimately this deal is to get more financial flexibility, move tinsley along/add some players that have good locker room reps and get a 1st rounder in 2007.
        This is the darkest timeline.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

          Originally posted by TheDon View Post
          Like many people in here have said it is highly unlikely that we trade Tinsley without Trading O'Neal at the same time, so who in the world would want both. The only thing I could see happening is IF TPTB decide they want to part ways with JO at the end of the year than we send JO to Boston with Tinsley for the first Pick + Pierce + Rondo that would give us either Durant/Pierce or Odin/Pierce and that would free up time for Ike to develop. I would be willing to bet that we could get the job done because for some reason the Celtics media/doc/ainge have always been huge on Tinsley if they could get their hands on JO I think they'd pull the trigger before they realize what happened.
          No way in hell the Celtics take that trade. All due respect to JO, but no team who ends up with the #1 pick is going to want him over Durant/Oden both of whom would be 10 years younger and about 1/5 the salary.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

            Originally posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
            NEW YORK OUT: Malik Rose, Nate Robinson, Jerome James
            NEW YORK IN: Jamaal Tinsley, Jeff Foster, Markus Banks

            PHOENIX OUT: Kurt Thomas, Jumaine Jones, Pat Burke, 2007 #1
            PHOENIX IN: Nate Robinson, Jerome James, David Harrison

            INDIANA OUT: Jamaal Tinsley, Jeff Foster, David Harrison
            INDIANA IN: Kurt Thomas, Jumaine Jones, Malik Rose, PHX #1 2007
            The only problem with this is where does Pat Burke go?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

              ^^^ that and what in the world would a run-and-gun team like Phoenix want with Jerome James and David Harrison?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

                I have been feeling very good about Tinsley and his play recently, but sadly
                that may change if allegations of his involvement in this latest 8-Seconds
                Saloon brawl are proven to be true.

                If it turns out that "Mel Mel" was a primary "Abuser", and did assault
                the bartender as alleged (and I pray that he didn't), then I would have to
                go along with those calling for a trade.

                If Seattle would be willing to trade for Earl Watson straight-up, on paper
                (and probably on the court as well) it would be a lop-sided deal in their favor.
                It might work nicely for us too, but is hard to tell without actually trying it.

                Honestly I don't know much about Watson, but do know he's one of the
                only PGs in the league we could trade Tins for straight-up due to salary
                constraints.

                My sincerest hope is that Tins is telling the truth about not being involved,
                is cleared of any wrong-doing, and continues to play well for us.
                I really thought he's been showing some good signs with his play of lately.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

                  Originally posted by indyman37 View Post
                  The only problem with this is where does Pat Burke go?
                  sorry that should have been Banks. i don't know why i typed burke...

                  essentially my thinking was that phoenix might want younger bigs, i wouldn't call burke or thomas the fastest guys around either. but harrison is young and has a small contract, james is young and could play scrub minutes against some of the western teams in the playoffs. the big thing for phoenix would be getting a legit backup PG.

                  once again, i said it would be most difficult for PHX to sign on to this deal, but actually it benefits them quite a bit. which is why it didn't seem totally irrational.
                  This is the darkest timeline.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

                    Outgoing
                    Marquis Daniels
                    6-5 SG from Auburn
                    6.0 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 1.3 apg in 17.0 minutes
                    Jamaal Tinsley
                    6-1 PG from Iowa State
                    13.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 6.5 apg in 31.1 minutes
                    Incoming
                    Andre Miller
                    6-2 PG from Utah
                    13.2 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 8.3 apg in 36.5 minutes
                    Rodney Carney
                    6-6 SF from Memphis
                    6.2 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 16.7 minutes
                    Change in team outlook: 0.0 ppg, +1.0 rpg, and +0.8 apg.


                    Philadelphia Trade Breakdown
                    Outgoing
                    Andre Miller
                    6-2 PG from Utah
                    13.2 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 8.3 apg in 36.5 minutes
                    Rodney Carney
                    6-6 SF from Memphis
                    6.2 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 16.7 minutes
                    Incoming
                    Marquis Daniels
                    6-5 SG from Auburn
                    6.0 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 1.3 apg in 17.0 minutes
                    Jamaal Tinsley
                    6-1 PG from Iowa State
                    13.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 6.5 apg in 31.1 minutes
                    Change in team outlook: 0.0 ppg, -1.0 rpg, and -0.8 apg.



                    Successful Scenario
                    Due to Indiana and Philadelphia being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and Philadelphia had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


                    With this trade, we would get rid of Danials and Tin man, and get back a soild PG and a better (potiental wise)SG/SF in Carney, the only thing is I don't think he can play the point like Danials. Then again, with Miller I don't think we would need another player to play the point.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

                      Originally posted by fleetwood019 View Post
                      Outgoing
                      Marquis Daniels
                      6-5 SG from Auburn
                      6.0 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 1.3 apg in 17.0 minutes
                      Jamaal Tinsley
                      6-1 PG from Iowa State
                      13.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 6.5 apg in 31.1 minutes
                      Incoming
                      Andre Miller
                      6-2 PG from Utah
                      13.2 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 8.3 apg in 36.5 minutes
                      Rodney Carney
                      6-6 SF from Memphis
                      6.2 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 16.7 minutes
                      Change in team outlook: 0.0 ppg, +1.0 rpg, and +0.8 apg.


                      Philadelphia Trade Breakdown
                      Outgoing
                      Andre Miller
                      6-2 PG from Utah
                      13.2 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 8.3 apg in 36.5 minutes
                      Rodney Carney
                      6-6 SF from Memphis
                      6.2 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 16.7 minutes
                      Incoming
                      Marquis Daniels
                      6-5 SG from Auburn
                      6.0 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 1.3 apg in 17.0 minutes
                      Jamaal Tinsley
                      6-1 PG from Iowa State
                      13.4 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 6.5 apg in 31.1 minutes
                      Change in team outlook: 0.0 ppg, -1.0 rpg, and -0.8 apg.



                      Successful Scenario
                      Due to Indiana and Philadelphia being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and Philadelphia had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


                      With this trade, we would get rid of Danials and Tin man, and get back a soild PG and a better (potiental wise)SG/SF in Carney, the only thing is I don't think he can play the point like Danials. Then again, with Miller I don't think we would need another player to play the point.
                      Hey see if it works for us to throw in Orien and get back Iguodala.

                      I keed I keed.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

                        Los Angeles Lakers


                        Incoming Players
                        Jermaine O'Neal
                        Salary: $18,084,000 Years Remaining: 3
                        PTS: 19.8 REB: 10.5 AST: 2.7 PER: 20.40
                        Shawne Williams
                        Salary: $1,367,760 Years Remaining: 2
                        PTS: 1.9 REB: 0.9 AST: 0.3 PER: 8.10
                        David Harrison
                        Salary: $960,840 Years Remaining: 2
                        PTS: 2.4 REB: 1.7 AST: 0.3 PER: 10.92
                        Jamaal Tinsley
                        Salary: $5,850,000 Years Remaining: 5
                        PTS: 13.7 REB: 3.5 AST: 6.5 PER: 16.03

                        Outgoing Players: Andrew Bynum, Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, Smush Parker
                        Indiana Pacers



                        Incoming Players
                        Andrew Bynum
                        Salary: $2,030,280 Years Remaining: 2
                        PTS: 8.5 REB: 6.6 AST: 1.3 PER: 17.19
                        Kwame Brown
                        Salary: $8,287,500 Years Remaining: 2
                        PTS: 8.7 REB: 6.6 AST: 2.0 PER: 14.90
                        Lamar Odom
                        Salary: $12,348,596 Years Remaining: 3
                        PTS: 17.0 REB: 9.3 AST: 4.9 PER: 16.21
                        Smush Parker
                        Salary: $798,112 Years Remaining: 1
                        PTS: 11.7 REB: 2.5 AST: 2.3 PER: 12.04

                        Outgoing Players: Jermaine O'Neal, Shawne Williams, David Harrison, Jamaal Tinsley

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

                          Saw the Cavs play yesterday and was relatively impressed with rookie PG, Daniel Gibson. He is reasonably quick, can shoot the 3 and is a solid perimeter defender. At 6'2 he is a touch on the small side. I'm not sure if Mike Brown would want anything to do with Tins having coached him before, but the Cavs might want to make a push to try and win the East this year and PG seems like their weakest position. I made up a couple of possible trades :

                          Tinsley and Harrison for Gibson and Marshall.

                          Tinsley and Foster for Gibson, Jones and Marshall.

                          While I dont particularly like the play of Marshall and downright hate Damon Jones, if we could get a good PG prospect who could fit into our system I think we should get after it. Its another less talent/more chemistry trade, but I think we need to cut Tinsley loose before the restructuring of the team is going near being finished.

                          Gibson was a mid 2nd round pick this year, 3 picks before we took Alexander Johnson. Its a shame we didn't get Portland to take him instead of James White.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

                            Originally posted by skyfire View Post
                            Saw the Cavs play yesterday and was relatively impressed with rookie PG, Daniel Gibson. He is reasonably quick, can shoot the 3 and is a solid perimeter defender. At 6'2 he is a touch on the small side. I'm not sure if Mike Brown would want anything to do with Tins having coached him before, but the Cavs might want to make a push to try and win the East this year and PG seems like their weakest position.
                            I'd be willing to take on some other less-desireable players to get Gibson. The way he's played when called on makes me think they might be loathe to let him go though.
                            I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                            -Emiliano Zapata

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Thoughts about a Tinsley trade...

                              I think most P's fans would love to get Mike Miller, and Kyle Lowry is listed on HoopsHype as Memphis' 4th pg, but has good numbers in limited mins (and apparently all the intangibles that we want in a starting pg). If he isn't starter material, we still get Mike. This scenario only works if Memphis covets Shawne, which they may not since they have Gay. Tinsley and Shawne also work for Miller and Lowry.


                              Indiana Trade Breakdown
                              Outgoing

                              Mike Dunleavy
                              6-8 SF from Duke
                              11.8 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 3.0 apg in 28.9 minutes

                              Jamaal Tinsley
                              6-1 PG from Iowa State
                              13.5 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 6.7 apg in 31.3 minutes

                              Shawne Williams
                              6-9 SF from Memphis
                              1.9 ppg, 0.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 6.6 minutes

                              Incoming

                              Mike Miller
                              6-8 SF from Florida
                              18.0 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 4.4 apg in 39.8 minutes

                              Damon Stoudamire
                              5-10 PG from Arizona
                              7.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.6 apg in 23.7 minutes

                              Kyle Lowry
                              6-0 PG from Villanova
                              5.6 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 3.2 apg in 17.4 minutes
                              Change in team outlook: +4.1 ppg, +1.9 rpg, and +2.2 apg.

                              Successful Scenario
                              Due to Indiana and Memphis being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and Memphis had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

                              Comment

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