The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

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  • #61
    Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

    Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
    And you are still alive?!?! You are one of the lucky ones. 38th and post and 42nd and Post - that whole area has gone downhill so much in the past 10 years it is a little scary.
    That was the first question that came to my mind.

    I remember the first time I went by my wife's school she taught at about 1.5 years ago and just remember being told which colors I was not to wear.

    That whole area over there is somewhere I never want to be when the sun starts to go down.


    • #62
      Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

      Originally posted by Adam1987 View Post
      You're right, it is scary. Thank God you made it out OK Pig Nash, and I'm being 100% serious when I say that.

      The far east-side has basically turned into a complete hell-hole. The influx of those cheap, vinyl village homes that have turned to Section 8 have expanded the ghetto and completely ruined the area. These are homes that went into foreclosure and were purchased by companies who turn them into Section 8 places by either selling them at extremely cheap prices or by renting them. This attracts a thuggish element and has expanded the ghetto to the far east side, well beyond 465. For many of these people, it's not good enough that they have a roof over their heads for pennies on the dollar. Nope, they want the plasma TV, they want the rims, they want the weed, they want the cash. Thus, good decent people like Pig Nash get terrorized by people breaking into their homes and have to live in fear that it will happen again.

      It used to be you could count on being pretty safe anywhere beyond 465. That's not the case anymore. The far east side beyond 465 is without a doubt one of the most dangerous areas in the city and now rivals the eastern part within 465 which has always been bad. Basically the entire East Side is rotten until you get into Hancock county.

      Look at the homicides that take place in that area this year and in previous years. There are at least 8-10 a year in the 38th street vicinity beyond 465. So far this year there have been 4 and if this year lives up the precedent set by the prior 4 there will be another 4 or so before the year is out. The area is a pure war-zone. Basically, I wouldn't venture over to the far-east side for anything unless I was on I-70 heading out of town.
      Exactly where I live. One mile into Hancock County. Still very nice neighborhood and Cumberland Police patrol it heavily. I expect a major comeback if they ever get the US 40 project done. (grrr)

      Seriously, look at 38th Street all the way east to west. That seem to be the trouble area.
      Last edited by indygeezer; 09-01-2010, 01:02 PM.
      Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.


      • #63
        Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

        I wish everyone would stop picking on SiG.
        “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

        “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird


        • #64
          Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

          To say I disagree with that whole post would be mild.

          SiG is virtuous because he gives, no matter what. Peck is virtuous because he doesn't just give, but would rather fullfill a direct need that turns out to be a scam.

          But again, SiG is virtuous because he just gives them money, no matter what.....

          I don't want to pile on SiG, and while I've never personally been through anything like he just confessed, I still feel for him. But at the same time, I wouldn't drive him back down to those parts of the city, because it wouldn't be "good" for him. There are other ways to help, than to just cave into his temporary wants.

          Just like an addict. Giving them money to score isn't "helping" anything, eventhough the saying is "it's the thought that counts."

          I don't want to sound like a dick, and think that I'm jumping on his back. Not at all. I have friends with a lot of different view points on a lot of different subjects and it doesn't affect our interactions. I wouldn't hesitate to sit down to eat with anyone of you. I can disagree with your opinions, without disagreeing with you personally.
          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.


          • #65
            Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

            I like everyone in this thread (hell I like most everyone at PD) but because we disagree with SIG we are picking on him? Umm, I guess I missed something but only one poster came across harsh, and after he explained his [personal] situation it helped explain why he had such a strong opinion.

            It is possible to disagree with someone and not be "picking" on them.

            As for the whole generosity is a virtue thing, fine. My personally I would rather donate to a organization (and after getting scammed in his by a company that took 60% of donation for "overhead I do a lot of research on companies before I donate) but if you choose other means, then fine.

            I will respect the man who donates his old clothes to Salvation Army just as much as I respect the man who donated to panhandlers. Just like I respect the soldier just as much as I donate the man who donates to a panhandler (Actually, that’s a lie. There are only a few heroes in my world, and a good number of them are the men and women serving our country. But that is a topic for another day)


            • #66
              Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

              I didn't feel like I was being picked on.

              And I wouldn't be too quick to praise my compassion either. When I give I almost always try to make sure I get something out of the transaction. Understanding is an asset, but it's not like I can just go up to the guy next to me right now in the cafe and be like, "So, man, what's your story?" "Well, the love of my life divorced me half a year ago, and the only real form of companionship I've had since then has been my epileptic Spinone. Right out of college I was offered a position with what is now the bottled water empire Aquafina, but I turned it down to work in the "family business"--a podunk little antique shoppe. And at night I cry myself to sleep, convinced that I've become a withered shrunken husk of what I should have been. . ."

              It turns out that it's incredibly hard to get strangers to talk openly to you when they don't need your money. I once paid $5 to learn a little bit about what it's like to be stuck with an atrophied nubbin of a leg because your abusive husband slammed your spine up against the edge of a filing cabinet. Pretty sure I came out in the black on that one.
              You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?


              • #67
                Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                Originally posted by Putnam
                One was SiG's statement that he gives when he can. Generosity is a virtue, and no one can make it not virtuous.

                General Jeffrey Amherst would beg to differ.
                You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?


                • #68
                  Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                  Originally posted by Pig Nash View Post
                  I lived just south of there at 36th and Post. We actually never had problems until about 4 years ago when kids (we assume) kept breaking into our house.
                  Never had any serious problems here until a building about 2 miles from my house had a hostage situation today. Apparently not everyone is happy to live each week like it's Shark Week...

                  Originally posted by SoupIsGood View Post
                  It turns out that it's incredibly hard to get strangers to talk openly to you when they don't need your money.
                  Not if you have a card table, two microphones and an empty chair.

                  EDIT: The video isn't embedding for some reason but here's the link:

                  Last edited by avoidingtheclowns; 09-02-2010, 01:15 AM. Reason: Slate video code embedding issues
                  This is the darkest timeline.


                  • #69
                    Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                    Originally posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post

                    Not if you have a card table, two microphones and an empty chair.

                    Plus a camera

                    Some people will do anything to get on TV or the internet


                    • #70
                      Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                      I just got back from a week in D.C. and if you think we have a homeless problem in Indy, you NEED to go check out the area around D.C.'s Union Station. There is a difference though. The folks in D.C. do not hustle you for money. They might ask for a buck as you pass, but they leave you alone if you refuse and do not loudly follow you down the street, shake a cup in your face, or anything of the like.

                      The absolute WORST experience I've ever seen with homeless people is Key West Florida though. Due to the awesome climate, they have year round professional street people, complete with a union like pecking order regarding which corner you can stand on and which hours you can "work".


                      • #71
                        Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                        I agree with you. If someone is actually homeless and you can tell, my family will always either 1) give them a few dollars or 2) buy them a burger or 2 or something like that. There is a lot of just plain laziness of not wanting to work and a bunch of this disability crap when the people have nothing wrong with them and they just make up ailments, but I'm always for helping out people in need when they really need it and aren't just bluffing. And I'm not pointing out any specific people about the disability comment of mine, I just have a little bit of that going on with some relatives right now and they're just rediculous and it is quite comical about the things they think they can get disability for.


                        • #72
                          Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                          I wouldn't hesitate to sit down to eat with anyone of you.
                          Hey... You gonna eat those fries?


                          • #73
                            Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                            Originally posted by MyFavMartian
                            Is it wrong that I want to scream and say that I pay taxes which goes to support welfare
                            I don't know whether it was wrong or not and I don't mean to criticize you.

                            But paying taxes to support "welfare" doesn't mean anything if the person doesn't qualify for welfare. You probably didn't take the time to find out the guy's situation sufficient to know whether any of the programs you support with your taxes could have helped him.

                            If you live in Maryland and he was in California, then your taxes didn't contribute to general poor relief because that is a state-based program. If he hasn't been employed, your contributions to the Unemployment Insurance fund can't help him. You've contributed to the federal program for Women, Infants and Children program, but he's a man and can't get any help from that. So, it is quite possible that none of the programs your tax contribution have paid into would do anything for that particular guy.

                            I'm not even saying that particular fellow deserved any help. All I'm saying is that "I pay taxes" isn't a meaningful reply to a person in need.

                            (And I, for one, sympathize with you for bearing the Maryland tax burden. I did it, too, for a couple of years.)
                            And I won't be here to see the day
                            It all dries up and blows away
                            I'd hang around just to see
                            But they never had much use for me
                            In Levelland. (James McMurtry)


                            • #74
                              Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                              I deleted my own post because I didn't want it to lead the discussion somewhere I didn't want it to lead and, on 2nd reading of my own post, I noted that it could be construed as hangry soapbox material that doesn't belong here on PD.

                              Thanks Putnam for dropping some knowledge.

                              Watched The Blind Side last night and know that I'm very priviledged and shouldn't take it for advantage.


                              • #75
                                Re: Panhandlers, beggars, lazy freakin' people .......

                                Originally posted by MyFavMartin View Post
                                I deleted my own post because . . . on 2nd reading of my own post, I noted that it could be construed as angry soapbox material that doesn't belong here on PD.

                                You're good. I at least didn't think you were going the wrong way. I just saw an opportunity to note that the US "safety net" leaves a lot of people out.
                                And I won't be here to see the day
                                It all dries up and blows away
                                I'd hang around just to see
                                But they never had much use for me
                                In Levelland. (James McMurtry)