The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Resting Starters

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  • Resting Starters

    Should Coach Vogel consider: Reason I ask is Popavich obviously sat Duncan Manu TP. granted they are older. Heat are currently sitting Wade intermittently.

    Heat may concede 1 seed and be rested and ready postseason. I want to keep winning, want the 1 seed. But should Coach Vogel rest players as well at times. Maybe Hibbs a game here or there, Paul a game here or there. Granger it would be a good idea with.

    This is alos bodes well for other reasons. Lets see this team prove to it can get a win without Paul or Roy (say one fouls out). also builds the team.

    most of all, keeps players rested. we got so much depth at this time, some nites we can pull it off. bobcats for example or whoever at home. let OJ play 30 minutes one nite, may need him, or Solo 25, sit DWEST and let Cope gets some minutes.

    you all get the point.

    LeHeat know they need Wade 100%. Lets make sure our boys get the 1 seed but are ready for the postseason first and foremost.

    What u say.

  • #2
    Re: Resting Starters

    No. It would disrupt team chemistry and individual rhythms too much to plan to build in rest like that for players who don't really need it (Roy, PG, Lance). So I wouldn't want Vogel to plan on playing the reserves more or not playing some starters at all against certain opponents. There is something about playing down to the competition that makes me uncomfortable and I also think it underestimates the bottom tier teams. Sure, they aren't as talented or don't gel as well on the whole ,but for the most part we are still talking about NBA talent.

    I think it makes good sense to manage the minutes of older and/or injury prone players (Danny, David, Hill). I would expect to not see Danny play on any back-to-backs. West and Hill have high quality backups and are older and a bit injury prone respectively, so I'd be fine with shaving off minutes here and there. I don't think they need to sit whole games unless there is a clear injury or fatigue need to do so.

    We're still a pretty young team. Part of being ready for the postseason for us is getting minutes to perfect things together. I suspect Roy, PG, and Lance in particular need consistency.
    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

    "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

    "Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider


    • #3
      Re: Resting Starters

      I don't think that we need to rest them a full game "here and there". The entire defense is highly dependent on PG24 and Hibbert playing at a high level. Given the importance of going for the #1 seed in the East and therefore winning games.....I think that there is a need to ensure that the Starters are playing enough minutes to affect the outcome of games but still rested enough throughout the entire season from game to game.

      Limiting the Starters minutes to 32 mpg for GH/PG24/Lance and 30 mpg for West/Hibbert is what I prefer to do. There are games where PG24 and Lance have played 38 to 40+ mpg....too much IMHO.

      We have the necessary depth and experience to give CJ, Scola, Mahinmi and some 2 man combination of OJ/Copeland/Solo enough minutes to limit the Starters to those #s.

      We may not blow Teams out....but I think that we are good enough to win "modestly" with our defense, offense and depth.
      Last edited by CableKC; 11-20-2013, 03:32 PM.
      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.


      • #4
        Re: Resting Starters

        Once Danny gets back, Paul and Lance will be able to play less minutes. The bigs are already in a good shape rotation wise. If Roy needs less court time, Ian plays a few extra min. If David needs less min, Luis can play more. The issue of extra rest shouldn't be something to worry about with the depth the Pacers have.


        • #5
          Re: Resting Starters

          Originally posted by xIndyFan View Post
          Once Danny gets back, Paul and Lance will be able to play less minutes.
          Once Danny gets back, Paul and Lance will be retired.

          Sorry - it's just that I don't think we should put the slightest bit of faith in Danny playing. If he does, well, fine. But it's been a looooooooong time already and there's nothing definite on the horizon. It's like that hallway in the horror flicks - the faster the person runs down it, the longer it gets.

          And no - this group - with the possible exception of West - shouldn't take games off. West is smart enough to turn it down on occasion. And seeing that he already plays the fewest minutes of the starters, Vogel is already ahead of this.


          • #6
            Re: Resting Starters

            Originally posted by gummy View Post
            No. It would disrupt team chemistry and individual rhythms
            Really? Not playing 36 minutes for a game here or there is not going to screw up chemistry or rhythms. Seriously, sometimes I feel like half this board never played organized basketball with the way chemistry is talked about. In a relationship, if you take a day to yourself to go fishing or something does your relationship suddenly have problems or go down the drain? No, nothing happens. You come back the next day, and you keep moving forward just as happy to be with each other as you were before. Chemistry is no different, take a game off, come back, and it is as if you never left.

            Rhythms, it is an 82 game season, there is plenty of time at the end of the season to get into a rhythm.

            It isn't as if he is suggesting they each take 20 games off. It is more of a, play George 20 minutes instead of 38 minutes once or twice a month.


            • #7
              Re: Resting Starters

              They can get plenty of rest during the 4th quarter. They just need to blowout their competition in the first 3 quarters.


              • #8
                Re: Resting Starters

                Pg is playing pretty acceptable minutes. You dont need to go out of your way to rest the young legs. PG played way more minutes last year and had a great playoffs. Roy shouldn't play more than 30-32 mpg ditto to west so that they can put in heavy minutes in the postseason, and danny should be brought in slowly but the young guys? They don't need minutes restrictions, just sit them in blowout situations and they'll be fine. Teams like mia and sas do what they do because their core is older, ours isn't and if we want hca, which is huge for younger teams especially we can't take any games for granted. Winning those games vs. Bobcats etc.. are essential to an elite record and without paul and roy those aren't gimme games.
                Goodbye Captain, My Captain. I wish you had the chance to sink or swim with your ship on its quest for the "ship".


                • #9
                  Re: Resting Starters

                  Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
                  Really? Not playing 36 minutes for a game here or there is not going to screw up chemistry or rhythms. Seriously, sometimes I feel like half this board never played organized basketball with the way chemistry is talked about. In a relationship, if you take a day to yourself to go fishing or something does your relationship suddenly have problems or go down the drain? No, nothing happens. You come back the next day, and you keep moving forward just as happy to be with each other as you were before. Chemistry is no different, take a game off, come back, and it is as if you never left.

                  Rhythms, it is an 82 game season, there is plenty of time at the end of the season to get into a rhythm.

                  It isn't as if he is suggesting they each take 20 games off. It is more of a, play George 20 minutes instead of 38 minutes once or twice a month.

                  George is playing less than 36 mpg. Any less than that is unusual for a star caliber 23 year old.
                  Goodbye Captain, My Captain. I wish you had the chance to sink or swim with your ship on its quest for the "ship".


                  • #10
                    Re: Resting Starters

                    It may be too soon to worry about rest at this point of the season, it is still an interesting topic. IMO, a lot of the lose to the Bulls was because the starts were tired or just not as rested as they be. If Danny returns in game shape any time soon and Cope continues to show progress, we should be able to cut all the starters minutes to 30 mpg or less, if we need to. I think the idea of sitting a particular player for a game on a rotating basis is a great idea when you have older or banged up players who need it, but it's probably too soon for FV to start thinking about it just yet.


                    • #11
                      Re: Resting Starters

                      At this point, though, we're trying to build game conditioning, and the only way to do that is to play full minutes for a series of games. During the playoffs there is no time to rest starters (unless you really end up with a mismatch), so building legs to that point of the season rather than somehow saving them is a better plan. Holding players out is more for preventing injury, I think, then resting - there's no reason to do that for a young, healthy player.

                      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                      Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...


                      • #12
                        Re: Resting Starters

                        Nah. I think Vogel is doing a damn good job of achieving our goals and managing the minutes/rotations right now. Look, if it's later in the season and we are in the second game of a back to back and we have a little bit of a cushion for the top seed, then sure, only play David West like 20 minutes or something. The rest of these guys are pretty young. I trust small injuries and what not will give them built in rest as the rigors of the season set in.


                        • #13
                          Re: Resting Starters

                          Last season's playoffs revealed just how important the #1 seed is to us. We should do our best to win every game. Like the Bulls game, if a game gets out of hand, then we can think about pulling the starters and resting them for that one game. But we don't enter ANY game knowing we are going to rest a starter. That's just taking too big a risk... it's just plain dumb considering our goal of achieving the #1 seed.


                          • #14
                            Re: Resting Starters

                            There's no reason to sit starters. We can be a little bit more conservative about playing guys with injuries, but there's really no reason to just sit somebody.
                            Time for a new sig.


                            • #15
                              Re: Resting Starters

                              I truly believe we are to good and to deep to not get HCA this year.. Specially since Wade does get rest.. And i also believe we are to much on a mission right now that resting players is just not the best fit with our current plans to take over the world.. This team, well, at least every starter, has to much to proof, like West said the other day on a ESPN interview.

                              We cant and wont rest players whole games.. But when we continue to impress our opponents with our willingness, the players will have some time before the playoffs to regeign some energy i suppose
                              Proud owner of 'Dutch Pacers'