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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

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All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

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It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

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Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

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  • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

    Originally posted by CJ Jones View Post
    Nuntius, Danny Granger didn't change his game much at all in Vogel's first full year. I have to disagree with you there. I didn't see much of the preseason so I can't personally verify Anthem's post that said Danny seemed more willing to give the ball up in preseason. If so, that's a great sign.

    My links weren't really meant to prove Danny's a black hole, that's my opinion, I only put them there to show you that I'm not alone in thinking that. It's not some crazy idea. Certainly not crazy enough to deserve the **** I got in this thread for saying it.
    No, it is a pretty crazy idea. There are people out there who think he is a chucker because of his shooting percentage, but you are the first person I have ever seen call him a blackhole. Calling him such suggests that once he gets the ball a shot is going up or there is going to be a turnover, which just has never been the case with Danny.

    Comment


    • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

      Originally posted by CJ Jones View Post
      Not assisting and dribbling with his head down straight to the basket. There's really no comparison between the two when it comes to playmaking.
      I'm not saying that Danny is a playmaker, but the things we're talking about are based on what he does when he's done with the ball. He either shoots, turns the ball over, or passes. How long it takes him to do any of those three doesn't matter. How good he is at facilitating another player doesn't matter. If he isn't shooting too much and he isn't turning the ball over too much, he must be passing it. Is he passing it to a player in scoring position? Obviously not, based on the assist numbers, but he's passing the ball as part of the middle of an offensive play or getting it back to the backcourt facilitator (usually the point guard) or in to the center (when playing an in-and-out game). If he holds the ball and does nothing with it, that would end up a turnover. If he just heaves up shots that would add to his shots taken.

      Your later reference article http://basketball-statistics.com/who...einthenba.html gives me fits. Let me grab some bits:

      I’d say that a “black hole” is a player who shoots the ball almost every time he touches it. He rarely passes the ball to an open teammate, and shoots a low percentage to boot.
      100 * (1 – (AvgUsg% / Usg%) + (1 – (TS% / AvgTS%) + (1 – (Ast% / AvgAst))
      First, he is clearly not using "pass" but using "pass to a man who is not only in scoring position but scores". I already have a problem because it only counts guys who pass to someone who scores. If you don't have other scorers on the team, that's problematic, so it is skewed against the top scorer with average teammates.

      Ast% TS% Usg%
      Big 8.05 0.553 20.0
      Wing 13.01 0.541 20.0
      PG 23.89 0.533 20.0
      Next, he "calculates" the average utilization as 20% with the logic that you split up your shots between all 5 positions equally. WTF? If my top scorer is taking the same number of shots as my worst scorer I want someone taken out.

      Rk Player Pos USG% TS% AST% BHI
      1 Rashad McCants Wing 25.94 0.474 8.31 71.41
      43 Ronald Murray Wing 23.52 0.548 12.94 14.27
      47 Danny Granger Wing 29.10 0.580 15.55 4.53
      And, finally, Danny is on this list even though his TS% and assists are HIGHER than the averages for his position - with a supposed "black hole index" that is 6% of the number for the biggest black hole, and 32% of the number for the "well known" guy 4 positions above him.

      I'm crying - this is just punishing a guy with a high utilization.

      ETA: a wing with a utilization of 21%, assists of 13%, and TS% of 54% - in other words, only barely off the averages he set - ends up with a BHI of 5.1. So Danny is LESS of a "black hole" than a wing as close to the average as you could possibly get..
      BillS

      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
      Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

      Comment


      • Re: Granger To Resume Practice




        Sigh.

        Comment


        • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

          No use talking about how he will help the team to death when he can't even practice.

          Comment


          • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

            Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post



            Sigh.
            I don't think that's bad. Next week is 2 days away, and we play tonight, so I doubt we're practicing tomorrow.

            Comment


            • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

              Originally posted by CJ Jones View Post
              I didn't see much of the preseason so I can't personally verify Anthem's post that said Danny seemed more willing to give the ball up in preseason.
              I can bump some game threads if you want. It was pretty well noted, not just by me.

              Danny's always done what his coach told him to do. This year's team has a focus on sharing the basketball. Danny will do what the team needs.
              This space for rent.

              Comment


              • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

                Originally posted by CJ Jones View Post
                Nuntius, Danny Granger didn't change his game much at all in Vogel's first full year. I have to disagree with you there. I didn't see much of the preseason so I can't personally verify Anthem's post that said Danny seemed more willing to give the ball up in preseason. If so, that's a great sign.

                My links weren't really meant to prove Danny's a black hole, that's my opinion, I only put them there to show you that I'm not alone in thinking that. It's not some crazy idea. Certainly not crazy enough to deserve the **** I got in this thread for saying it.
                Before watching the 10-11 season I hadn't watched a game that featured Danny Granger in my life (although I did watch the 2010 FIBA World Championship but I wasn't paying much attention to individual players). I never got the impression that he is an unwilling passer. He always struck me as a willing passer that just lacks passing skills. That's why I have never understood the "black hole" and "chucker" remarks that I have seen posted in this forum. I believe that some people are thinking too much about the JOB era.

                That said, you are absolutely entitled to disagree with me.
                Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
                Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

                Panopticon

                Originally posted by IrishPacer
                Empty vessels make the most noise.

                Comment


                • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

                  Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
                  No, it is a pretty crazy idea. There are people out there who think he is a chucker because of his shooting percentage, but you are the first person I have ever seen call him a blackhole. Calling him such suggests that once he gets the ball a shot is going up or there is going to be a turnover, which just has never been the case with Danny.
                  I have to agree with this. Granger, for all his weaknesses, is not a black hole. He is willing to give the ball up and normally doesn't force too many shots. The knock on Danny is that he will take lots of ill advised shots early in the shot clock. Normally these are not good shots but shots he could get anytime well after people are in rebounding position. This is indeed as good as a turnover.

                  As for this talk about him passing, all he has ever done is make pedestrian passes that any backup in the league could do. His dribbling skills are at about the same level. These are the prime reasons why some posters here are not impressed. We look at many more factors than his ability to shoot from the perimeter.
                  Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

                  Comment


                  • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

                    Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                    "chucker" remarks
                    Danny has never been a ball hog. Al Harrington he is not. But Danny has shot many, many times very early in the shot clock when the look wasn't all that good. From what I recall he seemed to miss 75% of those shots...and IMO that's where the "chucker" moniker is coming from.
                    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

                    Comment


                    • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

                      Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post



                      Sigh.

                      It's slowly going to become last year all over again.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

                        Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                        It's slowly going to become last year all over again.
                        I'll try the glass half-full approach with him for once. Are we talking soreness in the calf or knee?
                        Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

                        Comment


                        • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

                          Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                          I'll try the glass half-full approach with him for once. Are we talking soreness in the calf or knee?
                          The tweet doesn't specify, but I'll assume it's the calf. By comparing it to last year, I just mean that we're once again going through all of the debates over how he will fit in, while his return to the team continuously gets delayed by the "he's feels good, but we're just being cautious with him" stuff. You could cut and paste the quotes from last February and not notice the difference.

                          I honestly have tried my best to be optimistic about all of this, but it gets hard after a while.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

                            Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                            I'll try the glass half-full approach with him for once. Are we talking soreness in the calf or knee?
                            The calf. The knee's 100%. Allegedly.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

                              Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                              Danny has never been a ball hog. Al Harrington he is not. But Danny has shot many, many times very early in the shot clock when the look wasn't all that good. From what I recall he seemed to miss 75% of those shots...and IMO that's where the "chucker" moniker is coming from.
                              So, wait. The coach demanded players shoot early in the shot clock. We're now going to blame that on Danny.

                              Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
                              BillS

                              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                              Comment


                              • Re: Granger To Resume Practice

                                Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                                I honestly have tried my best to be optimistic about all of this, but it gets hard after a while.
                                Why? He's still ahead of the schedule you laid out before the season.
                                This space for rent.

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